Talk:MODMOS scale: Difference between revisions

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: I worry that "non-strict" MODMOS would, maybe paradoxically, have a stricter threshold of recognizability, i.e. altering a MOS by something other than a chroma might increase the likelihood that it isn't recognized by the listener as a variant of the original MOS. It's only an hypothesis, though. The article already talks a bit about the existence of extreme cases, but there's no clear example, so here's one for the sake of this explanation: 12edo's ultrahard onyx MOS, 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 (12), can ''technically'' also be called a MODMOS of diatonic Locrian b3 bb4 bb5 bbb6 bbbb7. If you add on top of that the possibility of altering by any interval, not just the moschroma, then you're effectively calling every 7-tone scale a MODMOS of any given 7-tone MOS, and I don't think it's a useful category, unless you work systematically with a sort of "alteration measure" to keep track of scales that deviate too much from the MOS to rank them from most similar to least similar, and I don't expect such a measure to be perfect. I suppose one could make the point that extreme cases don't have to matter, and lightly altered cases could still be interesting. In that case, I'm not sure if NSMODMOS is a pretty term I'd like to use for such scales.
: I worry that "non-strict" MODMOS would, maybe paradoxically, have a stricter threshold of recognizability, i.e. altering a MOS by something other than a chroma might increase the likelihood that it isn't recognized by the listener as a variant of the original MOS. It's only an hypothesis, though. The article already talks a bit about the existence of extreme cases, but there's no clear example, so here's one for the sake of this explanation: 12edo's ultrahard onyx MOS, 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 (12), can ''technically'' also be called a MODMOS of diatonic Locrian b3 bb4 bb5 bbb6 bbbb7. If you add on top of that the possibility of altering by any interval, not just the moschroma, then you're effectively calling every 7-tone scale a MODMOS of any given 7-tone MOS, and I don't think it's a useful category, unless you work systematically with a sort of "alteration measure" to keep track of scales that deviate too much from the MOS to rank them from most similar to least similar, and I don't expect such a measure to be perfect. I suppose one could make the point that extreme cases don't have to matter, and lightly altered cases could still be interesting. In that case, I'm not sure if NSMODMOS is a pretty term I'd like to use for such scales.
: If it were up to me, MODMOS scales would be called "altered MOS scales", reusing the existing music theory term for "{{w|altered chord}}" (although {{w|altered scale}} is something specific, apparently?), and what's currently proposed as NSMODMOS scales, I would call "inflected MOS scales", coming from the idea that an "inflection" is similar to an alteration, but generally less strict and more contextual. [[User:TallKite|Kite]] has recently made such a distinction between accidentals and inflections, as can be seen on the [[Arrow]] page for example. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
: If it were up to me, MODMOS scales would be called "altered MOS scales", reusing the existing music theory term for "{{w|altered chord}}" (although {{w|altered scale}} is something specific, apparently?), and what's currently proposed as NSMODMOS scales, I would call "inflected MOS scales", coming from the idea that an "inflection" is similar to an alteration, but generally less strict and more contextual. [[User:TallKite|Kite]] has recently made such a distinction between accidentals and inflections, as can be seen on the [[Arrow]] page for example. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
:: Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, it is a big help :)
:: The MODMOS article as it stands right now reads "''although numerous options exist for the choice of chromatic alteration, the standard is alteration by the MOS's chroma''", which means that as it stands right now, those infinite options are already available, and they are included within MODMOS.
:: So the problem already exists.
:: What I am mainly hoping we can do, is contain the problem by giving that infinite field of other alterations its own separate term, so that they can muddy that term, instead of muddying the term "MODMOS" itself.
:: Within that infinite field, we can define various subtypes: MOSes altered by step sizes from the MOS itself, MOSes altered by the chroma of a different MOS, MOSes altered by JI intervals, etc.
:: But the first step, I feel, is to wall it off from MODMOS, to contain the problem.
:: I like the term inflected MOS. Should we have an abbreviation like IMOS or INFMOS, or should we just call it inflected MOS with no abbreviation? I'm happy either way.
:: --[[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 04:16, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
:: I have created the page now. I decided to go with inflected MOS as the name. Thank you for the name :)
:: --[[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 06:15, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
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