Talk:Mason Green's New Common Practice Notation
The standard notation with which I am familiar has the major scale designated as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, so, I believe, the major seventh should be 7, not 7#, as this page currently (24 April 2019) has it. Maybe there is another sort of notation with which I'm unfamiliar, that looks similar to the notation taught in the USA, though.
Also, and I know this is a can of worms to open, but I have qualms with an EDO using any sort of notation that references a diminished octave or augmented unison. Unison is unison; either two tones have the same fundamental frequency or not. Saying "augmented unison" seems like a self-contradictory reference. In this case, wouldn't it be more appropriate to refer to a small interval as a diminished second? I think there is more wiggle room, logically with a "diminished octave," but again, there could be, in this particular tuning, an augmented seventh, which seems to make more sense. If you break down the major diatonic scale into components: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, and you have three types of components:
1, which is your point of reference, where you define the scale as starting. 2 3 and 6 7, which are tonal components that can come in a wide variety of tonal flavours, including major, minor, augmented, and diminished (and some others, maybe, that don't have much relation to 19-EDO). 4 and 5, which have a narrower variety: either perfect, augmented, or diminished.
In 19-EDO, you satisfy a finite set of the tonal options (keeping in mind the spelling of the major diatonic scale is WWHWWWH). Define four step sizes (that's sufficient to cover every tone):
1. One quantum is a diminished step (XS) 2. Two quanta are a half step (S) 3. Three quanta are a whole step (L) 4. Four quanta are an augmented step (XL)
If you start with 1 as being defined as the starting point (again, that major diatonic scale is WWHWWWH or, in quantum notation 3 3 2 3 3 3 2):
bb2 = 1 + XS (diminished second) b2 = 1 + S (minor second) 2 = 1 + L (major second)
- 2 = 1 + XL (augmented second)
bb3 = 2 + XS = #2 (diminished third) b3 = 2 + S (minor third) 3 = 2 + L (major third)
- 3 = 2 + XL (augmented third)
b4 = 3 + XS = #3 (diminished fourth) 4 = 3 + S (perfect fourth)
- 4 = 3 + L (augmented fourth)
b5 = 4 + S (and so on...) 5 = 4 + L
- 5 = 4 + XL
bb6 = 5 + XS = #5 b6 = 5 + S 6 = 5 + L
- 6 = 5 + XL
bb7 = 6 + XS = #6 b7 = 6 + S 7 = 6 + L
- 7 = 6 + XL
8 = 7 + S (since the tuning references the octave, like I said above, there is no need to subdivide the octave into tonal varieties)
From those tones, you can spell any scale possible in western music theory. Major 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, natural minor 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7, phrigian ("saturated minor") 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7, locrian ("half diminished") 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7, full diminished 1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 bb7, saturated diminished 1 bb2 bb3 b4 b5 bb6 bb7, augmented 1 2 3 #4 #5 6 7, saturated augmented 1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #7, or any admixture you can dream up, with the only complication being that some augmented-to-diminished steps leave you with no interval change, so, for example, 1 #2 bb3 4 5 #6 bb7 doesn't make a whole lot of sense in this tuning, since you have #2 enharmonically equivalent to bb3, so the two are in unison; same goes for #6 and bb7.
Bozu.
1) I strongly agree that the major 7th should be 7 not #7.
2) "Augmented unison" is not a self-contradictory reference, it's a standard music theory term. It even has its own wikipedia page. In some 19edo contexts, it could be called a dim 2nd and written bbII. But in other contexts, #I makes the most sense. For example, I - III - #Im - VI - I. Likewise bI is best for Im - bI - Im (actual musical example from Pink Floyd's Shine On You Crazy Diamond verse).
3) WWHWWWH doesn't makes sense in 19-edo. Better to say LLsLLLs (large and small).
4) What you call quanta are better called edosteps, a more self-explanatory term.
Everything else you said I agree with :) By the way, "2 3 and 6 7... come in a wide variety of tonal flavours," these are called imperfect degrees, 1, 4 & 5 are perfect degrees. --TallKite (talk) 02:17, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
2) If you say so. With all due respect, though, I'm not convinced from a fundamental level, though. First off, I and 1 are not the same exact thing, but maybe I'm splitting hairs. I is a chord and 1 is a note. The 1 note refers to the start of the scale and the I chord is the tonic chord based off of the root of the key... I don't see how an accidental can be placed on the root note of the scale in purely general terms where the context of 1 2 3 degrees would be used. Secondly, the Verse of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" is Gm F# Bb, no? The chorus is Gm/F# Gm/F... neither are what I would ever notate as Im bI Im, more like i #VII iii... or i i/maj7 i/m7... but maybe I misunderstood. At any rate, some sort of change going Im bI Im would be more clearly notated as Im #VII Im, no (I know there are different schools for roman numeral notation)? Since, for example, the harmonic minor scale is notated with a major seventh degree. It really doesn't make any sense to me, from any context I can imagine, where a song (standard non xen tuning) in C minor has a C flat in it, rather than a B natural. And 19-edo is a tuning that fits very well within the context of diatonic scales and harmonic minor scales and such. There are lots of differing schools of thought, though. But, some of my theory professors at uni would cringe anytime someone would use an accidental in any sort of unclear way, like writing bI or #I instead of VII or bII. Maybe those people are wrong. And I never heard of augmented unison outside of the online microtuning groups. I explained why I don't like it. My word on it is, by no means, authoritative.
3) Why not use W and H? Just about everyone knows that notation. I did use those to work toward explaining L and S, anyway.
4) My mistake. EDO steps is much clearer.
Bozu.
2) Suppose a 12-edo song is in A minor, the chords go Am - Ab (or G#) - Am, and the melody uses a C note over all chords. If the 2nd chord is G# major, since the melody note is the 3rd of the chord, the note would logically be spelled B#. (If it weren't, you would have a G# - C - D# chord, which would logically be called a "sus-dim-4th chord", which is silly.) Calling the 2nd chord Ab major allows the melody note to remain C. Which it should, because it's better if a single note doesn't have two names. Thus the chords go Am - Ab - Am, which in relative notation is Im - bI - Im.
3) W and H mean whole and half, and imply that the L/s ratio is 2:1. But in 19-edo, the ratio is 3:2. L and s are better names because they don't imply an incorrect L/s ratio. --TallKite (talk) 09:44, 26 April 2019 (UTC)