Talk:Meet and join: Difference between revisions

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:::::::: And I still think it would be a good idea for you to post to the Xenwiki Work Group about this meet/join swap, and its symbiology. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 19:01, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

::::::::: Douglas: I didn't see the above post. I think you are clearly trying to twist things into a picture whereby I am abusing some kind of authority to make unilateral changes to the page without going fielding community feedback. As I've noted several times, I did post it on Facebook to get feedback. I got some initial feedback, so I made some changes. Then you gave some feedback, so I made more changes. Then people on here gave feedback, so I made even more changes. The feedback was good and I incorporated it into a new version of the page. Now there is even more feedback and I'm sure there will be even more changes. For someone who is unilaterally abusing whatever authority you imagine me to have, I seem to be spending an awful lot of time fielding feedback and making changes on what was originally intended to be a minor edit.

::::::::: Lastly, the issue of my "user roles": is that they are set the way they are because the Wiki used to be hosted on Wikispaces. When that went down, Tyler reached out to me to see if we could migrate everything elsewhere before it collapsed. So we took it on ourselves to do that. While and my largest role was in the initial migration, the ongoing maintenance of the sysadmin stuff is really Tyler's thing, but I still contribute to occasional minor technical maintenance from time to time when I can. This is not something I really enjoyed doing, but I spent many hours doing all of it for free, or sometimes at personal cost, just to make sure the information was preserved. But none of this has anything to do with anything, because my ability to help install some new MediaWiki extension has no bearing on the contents of this article, and certainly it does not matter either way in whether or not I participate in a Discord server, and I think it's in poor taste to try to somehow use it against me to win a notation debate about the use of & vs &&. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 21:07, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

::::: I totally agree with Sintel. That's how I've always thought of it. I've never seen "&" used for the join of monzos. Can anyone point to some places on the wiki where it's used that way? In any case, what would be the harm in swapping those to "|" as in Sintel's and my scheme. Has "|" been used previously in a way that would conflict. So I'm supporting "&" for val-join, "|" for comma-join and subgroup-join. Then "&" is temperament join and "|" is temperament meet. Then "12 & 19" can be reads as vals or as temperaments, "&" works either way. [[User:Dave Keenan|Dave Keenan]] ([[User talk:Dave Keenan|talk]]) 09:06, 23 December 2021 (UTC) Dave Keenan

:::::: I agree with Dave and Sintel's proposal, at least as far as making it so that & is a concatenation (and reduction) of maps (meaning an intersection of commas and subspaces) and | is a concatenation (and reduction) of commas and subspaces (meaning an intersection of maps). I'm not concerned about which one is which, being called "meet" or "join" anymore. If I had clearly realized it was as simple as this earlier, i.e. that the only thing standing in the way of this simple of a solution was dismissing the use of & for concatenating commas as Mike claims has been done historically, I would have pushed for it. So I echo Dave's request for specific evidence of this usage, but more importantly his request for clarification on what the problem would be (if any) in changing them to use |. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 15:26, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

::::::: Douglas: Sorry, but I'm not going to waste endless hours somehow trying to search Facebook for posts of the form "ratio & ratio." I don't even know if that kind of thing is possible given Facebook's limited search feature, and if the primary reason you want me to do so is to because you demand "evidence" are unwilling to take my word for it, then I think there's no point in discussing anything further. Much like you don't intend to call a "map" a "val," I also don't intend to never use the phrase "81/80 & 64/63" ever again, but if it makes you happy, I have added & and | to the page as the predominant convention. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 21:07, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

== Suggestion to add a helpful image ==

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 :::::::: And I still think it would be a good idea for you to post to the Xenwiki Work Group about this meet/join swap, and its symbiology. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 19:01, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
+::::::::: Douglas: I didn't see the above post. I think you are clearly trying to twist things into a picture whereby I am abusing some kind of authority to make unilateral changes to the page without going fielding community feedback. As I've noted several times, I did post it on Facebook to get feedback. I got some initial feedback, so I made some changes. Then you gave some feedback, so I made more changes. Then people on here gave feedback, so I made even more changes. The feedback was good and I incorporated it into a new version of the page. Now there is even more feedback and I'm sure there will be even more changes. For someone who is unilaterally abusing whatever authority you imagine me to have, I seem to be spending an awful lot of time fielding feedback and making changes on what was originally intended to be a minor edit.
+::::::::: Lastly, the issue of my "user roles": is that they are set the way they are because the Wiki used to be hosted on Wikispaces. When that went down, Tyler reached out to me to see if we could migrate everything elsewhere before it collapsed. So we took it on ourselves to do that. While and my largest role was in the initial migration, the ongoing maintenance of the sysadmin stuff is really Tyler's thing, but I still contribute to occasional minor technical maintenance from time to time when I can. This is not something I really enjoyed doing, but I spent many hours doing all of it for free, or sometimes at personal cost, just to make sure the information was preserved. But none of this has anything to do with anything, because my ability to help install some new MediaWiki extension has no bearing on the contents of this article, and certainly it does not matter either way in whether or not I participate in a Discord server, and I think it's in poor taste to try to somehow use it against me to win a notation debate about the use of & vs &&. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 21:07, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 ::::: I totally agree with Sintel. That's how I've always thought of it. I've never seen "&" used for the join of monzos. Can anyone point to some places on the wiki where it's used that way? In any case, what would be the harm in swapping those to "|" as in Sintel's and my scheme. Has "|" been used previously in a way that would conflict. So I'm supporting "&" for val-join, "|" for comma-join and subgroup-join. Then "&" is temperament join and "|" is temperament meet. Then "12 & 19" can be reads as vals or as temperaments, "&" works either way. [[User:Dave Keenan|Dave Keenan]] ([[User talk:Dave Keenan|talk]]) 09:06, 23 December 2021 (UTC) Dave Keenan
 :::::: I agree with Dave and Sintel's proposal, at least as far as making it so that & is a concatenation (and reduction) of maps (meaning an intersection of commas and subspaces) and | is a concatenation (and reduction) of commas and subspaces (meaning an intersection of maps). I'm not concerned about which one is which, being called "meet" or "join" anymore. If I had clearly realized it was as simple as this earlier, i.e. that the only thing standing in the way of this simple of a solution was dismissing the use of & for concatenating commas as Mike claims has been done historically, I would have pushed for it. So I echo Dave's request for specific evidence of this usage, but more importantly his request for clarification on what the problem would be (if any) in changing them to use |. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 15:26, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
+::::::: Douglas: Sorry, but I'm not going to waste endless hours somehow trying to search Facebook for posts of the form "ratio & ratio." I don't even know if that kind of thing is possible given Facebook's limited search feature, and if the primary reason you want me to do so is to because you demand "evidence" are unwilling to take my word for it, then I think there's no point in discussing anything further. Much like you don't intend to call a "map" a "val," I also don't intend to never use the phrase "81/80 & 64/63" ever again, but if it makes you happy, I have added & and | to the page as the predominant convention. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 21:07, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
 == Suggestion to add a helpful image ==