User talk:Rperlner: Difference between revisions

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::::::::: A brief comment on the Locrian circle progression: Root motion by 5ths between open 5th chords presents a pretty limited range of options for voice leading. Voices can either be held fixed, move by step, or leap by a perfect 4th or 5th. The former may be able to be decorated by a neighbor tone figure, the step may be treated as a 9-8 suspension, and the fourth leap may be filled in with passing tones (although this will put the 3rd back in the first chord.) This leaves out a number of the more common contrapuntal decorations you find in the baroque style (e.g. the 7-6 and 4-3 suspensions and their standard elaborations as well as the humble single passing tone.) I'd also note that, except at cadences, I don't think much about what chords I'm using when writing in a fugal style. It's very much a chords from voice leading process as opposed to vice-versa. I guess this isn't necessarily at odds with your advice to use the circle progression at the end of a lengthy passage (i.e. around the cadence). --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 19:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::: Locrian mode seems to have a way of being more restricted in terms available chord progressions than other modes, and cadences often need more of a set up in Locrian than in some of the others. I'm not saying that your approach to the voice leading and chord progressions is totally off base- it's not- but you do kind of have to plan ahead as you set up your voice leading so that you keep things within the confines of Locrian's style of tonality. This is all the more true for those types of fugue in which you have a main leitmotif that repeats itself at random times throughout your fugue as with [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8i5D2uz84 Fugue in G Minor by Bach]. Nevertheless, I do think I see at least one really good option for decorating of the B-Minor (1/1-77/64-2/1) at the start of the circle progression- namely by adding the minor seventh to create (1/1-77/64-16/9-2/1), as this is a common variation of the Tonic chord in non-final environments anyway. I also see melodies involving the Flat-2 (located at 16/15 above the Tonic) as being readily available for this purpose. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::: Locrian mode seems to have a way of being more restricted in terms available chord progressions than other modes, and cadences often need more of a set up in Locrian than in some of the others. I'm not saying that your approach to the voice leading and chord progressions is totally off base- it's not- but you do kind of have to plan ahead as you set up your voice leading so that you keep things within the confines of Locrian's style of tonality. This is all the more true for those types of fugue in which you have a main leitmotif that repeats itself at random times throughout your fugue as with [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8i5D2uz84 Fugue in G Minor by Bach]. Nevertheless, I do think I see at least one really good option for decorating the B-Minor (1/1-77/64-2/1) at the start of the circle progression- namely by adding the minor seventh to create (1/1-77/64-16/9-2/1), as this is a common variation of the Tonic chord in non-final environments anyway. I also see melodies involving the Flat-2 (located at 16/15 above the Tonic) as being readily available for this purpose. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

:::::::: I just had a thought... Since the wolf fifth is a different interval from the perfect fifth with different properties, perhaps a succession of chords in root position such as the sequence G-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2), A-Wolf-Minor (1/1-32/27-40/27), B-Diminished (1/1-6/5-32/27), C-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2) in the key of C-Major could potentially be allowed in non-meantone settings, seeing as it seems to be that only two successive chords with parallel perfect fifths or octaves lead to the loss of independence among the different voices. Do you think this is a viable technique for things like fugues? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

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 ::::::::: A brief comment on the Locrian circle progression: Root motion by 5ths between open 5th chords presents a pretty limited range of options for voice leading. Voices can either be held fixed, move by step, or leap by a perfect 4th or 5th. The former may be able to be decorated by a neighbor tone figure, the step may be treated as a 9-8 suspension, and the fourth leap may be filled in with passing tones (although this will put the 3rd back in the first chord.) This leaves out a number of the more common contrapuntal decorations you find in the baroque style (e.g. the 7-6 and 4-3 suspensions and their standard elaborations as well as the humble single passing tone.) I'd also note that, except at cadences, I don't think much about what chords I'm using when writing in a fugal style. It's very much a chords from voice leading process as opposed to vice-versa. I guess this isn't necessarily at odds with your advice to use the circle progression at the end of a lengthy passage (i.e. around the cadence). --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 19:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::::: Locrian mode seems to have a way of being more restricted in terms available chord progressions than other modes, and cadences often need more of a set up in Locrian than in some of the others.  I'm not saying that your approach to the voice leading and chord progressions is totally off base- it's not- but you do kind of have to plan ahead as you set up your voice leading so that you keep things within the confines of Locrian's style of tonality.  This is all the more true for those types of fugue in which you have a main leitmotif that repeats itself at random times throughout your fugue as with [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8i5D2uz84 Fugue in G Minor by Bach].  Nevertheless, I do think I see at least one really good option for decorating of the B-Minor (1/1-77/64-2/1) at the start of the circle progression- namely by adding the minor seventh to create (1/1-77/64-16/9-2/1), as this is a common variation of the Tonic chord in non-final environments anyway.  I also see melodies involving the Flat-2 (located at 16/15 above the Tonic) as being readily available for this purpose. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
+:::::::::: Locrian mode seems to have a way of being more restricted in terms available chord progressions than other modes, and cadences often need more of a set up in Locrian than in some of the others.  I'm not saying that your approach to the voice leading and chord progressions is totally off base- it's not- but you do kind of have to plan ahead as you set up your voice leading so that you keep things within the confines of Locrian's style of tonality.  This is all the more true for those types of fugue in which you have a main leitmotif that repeats itself at random times throughout your fugue as with [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO8i5D2uz84 Fugue in G Minor by Bach].  Nevertheless, I do think I see at least one really good option for decorating the B-Minor (1/1-77/64-2/1) at the start of the circle progression- namely by adding the minor seventh to create (1/1-77/64-16/9-2/1), as this is a common variation of the Tonic chord in non-final environments anyway.  I also see melodies involving the Flat-2 (located at 16/15 above the Tonic) as being readily available for this purpose. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:27, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 :::::::: I just had a thought...  Since the wolf fifth is a different interval from the perfect fifth with different properties, perhaps a succession of chords in root position such as the sequence G-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2), A-Wolf-Minor (1/1-32/27-40/27), B-Diminished (1/1-6/5-32/27), C-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2) in the key of C-Major could potentially be allowed in non-meantone settings, seeing as it seems to be that only two successive chords with parallel perfect fifths or octaves lead to the loss of independence among the different voices.  Do you think this is a viable technique for things like fugues? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)