User talk:Rperlner: Difference between revisions

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:::::::::: Well, to be frank, since music of the common practice era was virtually all in some sort of meantone or other (as far as I know), and the distinct qualities and musical properties of wolf fifths were not recognized back then, it sounds to me like we can regard root position diminished triads as something unique to non-meantone tunings, just like with the wolf fifths and wolf fourths themselves- particularly since this sort of appearance of a diminished triad in root position is only really facilitated by the prior usage of the wolf fifth as in the example I provided. Besides, diminished triads do have other follow ups- most notably, B-Diminished in root position can be followed up by the second inversion of E-minor (1/1-6/5-3/2 in root position; root note related to the Tonic by 5/4). From the aforementioned second inversion E-minor, we can then use a first inversion A-Wolf-Minor as a follow up, and then go on to some inversion of G-Dominant-7. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:29, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::: I have been told that the IVM-VM-IM chord progression wasn't used in common practice tonality, but I think we can nevertheless use it, as even the purists seem to accept the notion that the IV triad (1/1-81/64-3/2; related to the Tonic by 4/3)- as it occurs in this position- originated from a first inversion IIm7 where the root was seen as superfluous and thus removed. The purists may not like some of the implications that result from this development, but there is a sense in which it's their loss. That said, they ''do'' have a point about the IVM-VM-IM cadence being easily bastardized- I can only assume that this means that this cadence works best as a non-final phrase ending. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 22:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::: On another note, I have been told that the IVM-VM-IM chord progression wasn't used in common practice tonality, but I think we can nevertheless use it, as even the purists seem to accept the notion that the IV triad (1/1-81/64-3/2; related to the Tonic by 4/3)- as it occurs in this position- originated from a first inversion IIm7 where the root was seen as superfluous and thus removed. The purists may not like some of the implications that result from this development, but there is a sense in which it's their loss. That said, they ''do'' have a point about the IVM-VM-IM cadence being easily bastardized- I can only assume that this means that this cadence works best as a non-final phrase ending. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 22:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

:: I know this may sound hard to believe, but in all my experimenting with different intervals, I've found that the wrong kind of interval involving small-number-ratios between the wrong two notes actually works against the formation of a sense of tonality. Conversely, a more tense-sounding interval in the right location- yes, even if the interval in question happens to be [[40/27]]- can actually strengthen your sense of tonality. Yes, intervals with small-number-ratios are vital to establishing tonality, but because of their power, they have to be well-placed within the tonal system, or otherwise the sense of tonality shifts when you don't want it to. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

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 :::::::::: Well, to be frank, since music of the common practice era was virtually all in some sort of meantone or other (as far as I know), and the distinct qualities and musical properties of wolf fifths were not recognized back then, it sounds to me like we can regard root position diminished triads as something unique to non-meantone tunings, just like with the wolf fifths and wolf fourths themselves- particularly since this sort of appearance of a diminished triad in root position is only really facilitated by the prior usage of the wolf fifth as in the example I provided.  Besides, diminished triads do have other follow ups- most notably, B-Diminished in root position can be followed up by the second inversion of E-minor (1/1-6/5-3/2 in root position; root note related to the Tonic by 5/4).  From the aforementioned second inversion E-minor, we can then use a first inversion A-Wolf-Minor as a follow up, and then go on to some inversion of G-Dominant-7. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:29, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::::: I have been told that the IVM-VM-IM chord progression wasn't used in common practice tonality, but I think we can nevertheless use it, as even the purists seem to accept the notion that the IV triad (1/1-81/64-3/2; related to the Tonic by 4/3)- as it occurs in this position- originated from a first inversion IIm7 where the root was seen as superfluous and thus removed.  The purists may not like some of the implications that result from this development, but there is a sense in which it's their loss.  That said, they ''do'' have a point about the IVM-VM-IM cadence being easily bastardized- I can only assume that this means that this cadence works best as a non-final phrase ending. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 22:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
+:::::::::: On another note, I have been told that the IVM-VM-IM chord progression wasn't used in common practice tonality, but I think we can nevertheless use it, as even the purists seem to accept the notion that the IV triad (1/1-81/64-3/2; related to the Tonic by 4/3)- as it occurs in this position- originated from a first inversion IIm7 where the root was seen as superfluous and thus removed.  The purists may not like some of the implications that result from this development, but there is a sense in which it's their loss.  That said, they ''do'' have a point about the IVM-VM-IM cadence being easily bastardized- I can only assume that this means that this cadence works best as a non-final phrase ending. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 22:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 :: I know this may sound hard to believe, but in all my experimenting with different intervals, I've found that the wrong kind of interval involving small-number-ratios between the wrong two notes actually works against the formation of a sense of tonality.  Conversely, a more tense-sounding interval in the right location- yes, even if the interval in question happens to be [[40/27]]- can actually strengthen your sense of tonality.  Yes, intervals with small-number-ratios are vital to establishing tonality, but because of their power, they have to be well-placed within the tonal system, or otherwise the sense of tonality shifts when you don't want it to. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)