User talk:Rperlner: Difference between revisions

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:My Locrian fugue is done now: https://en.xen.wiki/w/File:Locrian_Fugue.mp3 . I also uploaded a 31 edo version, so you can confirm for yourself it sounds worse: https://en.xen.wiki/w/File:Locrian_Fugue_31_edo.mp3 . As I said on the description page for the 12 EDO version, I think the reason I like 12 EDO for this particular piece (not necessarily claiming this applies to everything in Locrian) is that the subject can be heard as an elaboration of a 5:6:7:8 tetrad in 12 EDO, but not so much other tunings. That said, I was not thinking of just ratios when composing this. Just the usual counterpoint rules: 3rd and 6ths are imperfect consonances and can be used freely in harmony, perfect 5ths and octaves are perfect consonances (i.e. parallels are to be avoided.) Perfect 4ths with the bass and 7ths with the root of a chord are dissonances that like to resolve by having the upper voice fall to a 3rd. Augmented intervals like to expand, diminished intervals like to contract, Avoid dissonant leaps in melodic motion. Handle dissonances as suspensions, passing tones, neighbor tones etc. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 01:45, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

:: Okay, I just listened to your Locrian fugue, and I'll admit I had a hard time identifying the Tonic in the chord progressions of this piece. One thing I should take note of quickly is that the Flat-Five- which I call the Tyrant- operates best in Locrian mode when it approximates 64/45 or something in that vicinity. This is because the chord based on the Tyrant actually relies on the interval between the Tonic and the Tyrant in order to provide the strong sense of contrast that makes Locrian mode work best in non-meantone EDOs, the harmonic connection between the Tonic and 64/45 also helps immensely. Hence this is one of the techniques I used in "Space Tour" for writing the Locrian section in 53edo. When the Flat-Five interval is less than 600 cents wide, it actually sounds like it wants to expand rather than contract according to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone#Common_Uses], and the reasoning behind this as stated in the article actually makes sense. Thus, in order to actually have the kinds of harmonic motion that lends itself to establishing a more solid sense of Tonality, you might want to consider a different tuning, and more carefully consider my comments in regards to Locrian chord progressions. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:39, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

:: Okay, I just listened to your Locrian fugue, and I'll admit I had a hard time identifying the Tonic in the chord progressions of this piece. One thing I should take note of quickly is that the Flat-Five- which I call the Tyrant- operates best in Locrian mode when it approximates 64/45 or something in that vicinity. This is because the chord based on the Tyrant actually relies on the interval between the Tonic and the Tyrant in order to provide the strong sense of contrast that makes Locrian mode work best in non-meantone EDOs, the harmonic connection between the Tonic and 64/45 also helps immensely. Hence this is one of the techniques I used in "Space Tour" for writing the Locrian section in 53edo. When the Flat-Five interval is less than 600 cents wide, it actually sounds like it wants to expand rather than contract according to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone#Common_Uses the relevant section of Wikipedia's article on the Tritone], and the reasoning behind this as stated in the article actually makes sense. Thus, in order to actually have the kinds of harmonic motion that lends itself to establishing a more solid sense of Tonality, you might want to consider a different tuning, and more carefully consider my comments in regards to Locrian chord progressions. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:39, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

:: I know this may sound hard to believe, but in all my experimenting with different intervals, I've found that the wrong kind of interval involving small-number-ratios between the wrong two notes actually works against the formation of a sense of tonality. Conversely, a more tense-sounding interval in the right location- yes even if the interval is [[40/27]]- can actually strengthen your sense of tonality. Yes, intervals with small-number-ratios are vital to establishing tonality, but because of their power, they have to be well-placed within the tonal system, or otherwise the sense of tonality shifts when you don't want it to. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

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 :My Locrian fugue is done now: https://en.xen.wiki/w/File:Locrian_Fugue.mp3 . I also uploaded a 31 edo version, so you can confirm for yourself it sounds worse: https://en.xen.wiki/w/File:Locrian_Fugue_31_edo.mp3 . As I said on the description page for the 12 EDO version, I think the reason I like 12 EDO for this particular piece (not necessarily claiming this applies to everything in Locrian) is that the subject can be heard as an elaboration of a 5:6:7:8 tetrad in 12 EDO, but not so much other tunings. That said, I was not thinking of just ratios when composing this. Just the usual counterpoint rules: 3rd and 6ths are imperfect consonances and can be used freely in harmony, perfect 5ths and octaves are perfect consonances (i.e. parallels are to be avoided.) Perfect 4ths with the bass and 7ths with the root of a chord are dissonances that like to resolve by having the upper voice fall to a 3rd. Augmented intervals like to expand, diminished intervals like to contract, Avoid dissonant leaps in melodic motion. Handle dissonances as suspensions, passing tones, neighbor tones etc. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 01:45, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
-:: Okay, I just listened to your Locrian fugue, and I'll admit I had a hard time identifying the Tonic in the chord progressions of this piece.  One thing I should take note of quickly is that the Flat-Five- which I call the Tyrant- operates best in Locrian mode when it approximates 64/45 or something in that vicinity.  This is because the chord based on the Tyrant actually relies on the interval between the Tonic and the Tyrant in order to provide the strong sense of contrast that makes Locrian mode work best in non-meantone EDOs, the harmonic connection between the Tonic and 64/45 also helps immensely.  Hence this is one of the techniques I used in "Space Tour" for writing the Locrian section in 53edo.  When the Flat-Five interval is less than 600 cents wide, it actually sounds like it wants to expand rather than contract according to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone#Common_Uses], and the reasoning behind this as stated in the article actually makes sense.  Thus, in order to actually have the kinds of harmonic motion that lends itself to establishing a more solid sense of Tonality, you might want to consider a different tuning, and more carefully consider my comments in regards to Locrian chord progressions. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:39, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
+:: Okay, I just listened to your Locrian fugue, and I'll admit I had a hard time identifying the Tonic in the chord progressions of this piece.  One thing I should take note of quickly is that the Flat-Five- which I call the Tyrant- operates best in Locrian mode when it approximates 64/45 or something in that vicinity.  This is because the chord based on the Tyrant actually relies on the interval between the Tonic and the Tyrant in order to provide the strong sense of contrast that makes Locrian mode work best in non-meantone EDOs, the harmonic connection between the Tonic and 64/45 also helps immensely.  Hence this is one of the techniques I used in "Space Tour" for writing the Locrian section in 53edo.  When the Flat-Five interval is less than 600 cents wide, it actually sounds like it wants to expand rather than contract according to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone#Common_Uses the relevant section of Wikipedia's article on the Tritone], and the reasoning behind this as stated in the article actually makes sense.  Thus, in order to actually have the kinds of harmonic motion that lends itself to establishing a more solid sense of Tonality, you might want to consider a different tuning, and more carefully consider my comments in regards to Locrian chord progressions. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:39, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
 :: I know this may sound hard to believe, but in all my experimenting with different intervals, I've found that the wrong kind of interval involving small-number-ratios between the wrong two notes actually works against the formation of a sense of tonality.  Conversely, a more tense-sounding interval in the right location- yes even if the interval is [[40/27]]- can actually strengthen your sense of tonality.  Yes, intervals with small-number-ratios are vital to establishing tonality, but because of their power, they have to be well-placed within the tonal system, or otherwise the sense of tonality shifts when you don't want it to. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)