User talk:Rperlner: Difference between revisions

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::::: I see where you're coming from, but in my experience, these chords do not seem as problematic as you suggest. Even something normal like: i(83)-VI-II(6)-i(dim,64)-bV sounds fine to my ear, with the Locrian root clearly sounding like the tonic, as long as the voice leading is what you'd expect ignoring that it's in Locrian. It probably helps that the first 3 chords are just tonic, submediant, Neapolitan from common practice music. I uploaded an image of some of my (not that) old counterpoints for reference on how I write in Locrian. https://en.xen.wiki/w/File:Locrian_Counterpoints.jpg . I'm also writing a Fugue in Locrian, at your (sort of) suggestion (sounds best in 12 EDO, somewhat boringly), but it will likely take a few weeks. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 00:46, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

:::::: It may work for brief periods of time- especially when you introduce the perfect fifth above the tonic as an accidental- but over time, the more normal stuff seems to have a way of destabilizing the mode, and yes, the fact that the first three chords are tonic, submediant (a.k.a. contramediant) and Neapolitan (a.k.a. reverse lead) are part of what make it workable in this case, but I'd be wary of of using the diminished tonic triad right after a neapolitan chord- you may get away with that every once in a while assuming you use the right inversion, but you won't get away with it every time, and definitely not if you attempt it too frequently. I mean, whereas most people attempt to work with shorter passages in Locrian at most- and even then they use fairly simple versions of the chords- I try to work with it for longer passages using richer chord structures. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 02:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

:::::: It may work for brief periods of time- especially when you introduce the perfect fifth above the tonic as an accidental- but over time, the more normal stuff seems to have a way of destabilizing the mode, and yes, the fact that the first three chords are tonic, submediant (a.k.a. contramediant) and Neapolitan (a.k.a. reverse lead) are part of what make it workable in this case, but I'd be wary of of using the diminished tonic triad right after a neapolitan chord- you may get away with that every once in a while assuming you use the right inversion, but you won't get away with it every time, and definitely not if you attempt it too frequently. I mean, whereas most people attempt to work with shorter passages in Locrian at most- and even then they use fairly simple versions of the chords- I try to work with it for longer passages using richer, more extensive chord structures. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 02:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

== Email exchange with Dr. Ozan Yarman ==

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 ::::: I see where you're coming from, but in my experience, these chords do not seem as problematic as you suggest. Even something normal like: i(83)-VI-II(6)-i(dim,64)-bV sounds fine to my ear, with the Locrian root clearly sounding like the tonic, as long as the voice leading is what you'd expect ignoring that it's in Locrian. It probably helps that the first 3 chords are just tonic, submediant, Neapolitan from common practice music. I uploaded an image of some of my (not that) old counterpoints for reference on how I write in Locrian. https://en.xen.wiki/w/File:Locrian_Counterpoints.jpg . I'm also writing a Fugue in Locrian, at your (sort of) suggestion (sounds best in 12 EDO, somewhat boringly), but it will likely take a few weeks. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 00:46, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
-:::::: It may work for brief periods of time- especially when you introduce the perfect fifth above the tonic as an accidental- but over time, the more normal stuff seems to have a way of destabilizing the mode, and yes, the fact that the first three chords are tonic, submediant (a.k.a. contramediant) and Neapolitan (a.k.a. reverse lead) are part of what make it workable in this case, but I'd be wary of of using the diminished tonic triad right after a neapolitan chord- you may get away with that every once in a while assuming you use the right inversion, but you won't get away with it every time, and definitely not if you attempt it too frequently.  I mean, whereas most people attempt to work with shorter passages in Locrian at most- and even then they use fairly simple versions of the chords- I try to work with it for longer passages using richer chord structures. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 02:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
+:::::: It may work for brief periods of time- especially when you introduce the perfect fifth above the tonic as an accidental- but over time, the more normal stuff seems to have a way of destabilizing the mode, and yes, the fact that the first three chords are tonic, submediant (a.k.a. contramediant) and Neapolitan (a.k.a. reverse lead) are part of what make it workable in this case, but I'd be wary of of using the diminished tonic triad right after a neapolitan chord- you may get away with that every once in a while assuming you use the right inversion, but you won't get away with it every time, and definitely not if you attempt it too frequently.  I mean, whereas most people attempt to work with shorter passages in Locrian at most- and even then they use fairly simple versions of the chords- I try to work with it for longer passages using richer, more extensive chord structures. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 02:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 == Email exchange with Dr. Ozan Yarman ==