User talk:TallKite: Difference between revisions

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Kite, I'm also looking for names for both quartismic temperaments that also temper out the escapade comma, and quartismic temperaments that also temper out the the diaschisma. Do you have any ideas? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 03:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

: The page reorganization looks good! I do have a system for naming all temperaments based on a prime subgroup. It's detailed at https://en.xen.wiki/w/Color_notation/Temperament_Names. It's quite complicated. Multi-comma temperaments are tricky, because there's an infinite number of commas tempered out. So identical temperaments arise from different commas, yet the temperament name must be unique.

: I call the rank-4 2.3.5.7.11 temperament Saquinlu-azo plus Ya. Of course the difference between this and 11-limit JI is inaudible.

: Escapade is Sasa-tritriyo, so that plus quartismic makes the Sasa-tritriyo & Saquinlu-azo temperament. Yes, that's a mouthful. That's what happens when the nomenclature is systematic and also has only a small number of terms. Basic information theory says that something has to give. Easy to learn and logical means complex things get long names. And this temperament is *extremely* complex. But this name at 11 syllables is still better than saying "4294967296/4271484375 and 117440512/117406179" out loud! And you can work backwards from the name and derive the prime subgroup, the rank, and the commas. No other name can do that.

: Diaschisma is Sagugu, so that makes Sagugu & Saquinlu-azo. Nine syllables, a little better. :)

: Not sure what no-fives temperaments you want to name. No-fives quartismic is simply Saquinlu-azo. If for example you also temper out 99/98, that's Loruru & Saquinlu-azo. But there's a rule that's needed to ensure the name is unique: the 1st comma must have only one prime > 3, and it must be the smallest such prime. So you have to eliminale lo/lu by adding 5 of the 1st comma to the 2nd one, to get Satritriru. The final name is Satritriru & Loruru. Notice that the quartisma is no longer part of the name. Often very complex commas tend to get replaced with simpler ones. This is as it should be, because one is far more likely to actually employ a Loruru pump than a Saquinlu-azo pump! And the name should reference the more commonly used commas. Perhaps the most important characteristics of a temperament are the prime subgroup and the pergen. This one's pergen is (P8, P4/9), so it divides the 4th into 9 parts. So you could name it "Zala ninth-fourth". Zala means the 2.3.7.11 prime subgroup. But there will always be other temperaments with the same subgroup and pergen.

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 Kite, I'm also looking for names for both quartismic temperaments that also temper out the escapade comma, and quartismic temperaments that also temper out the the diaschisma.  Do you have any ideas? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 03:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
+: The page reorganization looks good! I do have a system for naming all temperaments based on a prime subgroup. It's detailed at https://en.xen.wiki/w/Color_notation/Temperament_Names. It's quite complicated. Multi-comma temperaments are tricky, because there's an infinite number of commas tempered out. So identical temperaments arise from different commas, yet the temperament name must be unique.
+: I call the rank-4 2.3.5.7.11 temperament Saquinlu-azo plus Ya. Of course the difference between this and 11-limit JI is inaudible.
+: Escapade is Sasa-tritriyo, so that plus quartismic makes the Sasa-tritriyo & Saquinlu-azo temperament. Yes, that's a mouthful. That's what happens when the nomenclature is systematic and also has only a small number of terms. Basic information theory says that something has to give. Easy to learn and logical means complex things get long names. And this temperament is *extremely* complex. But this name at 11 syllables is still better than saying "4294967296/4271484375 and 117440512/117406179" out loud! And you can work backwards from the name and derive the prime subgroup, the rank, and the commas. No other name can do that.
+: Diaschisma is Sagugu, so that makes Sagugu & Saquinlu-azo. Nine syllables, a little better. :)
+: Not sure what no-fives temperaments you want to name. No-fives quartismic is simply Saquinlu-azo. If for example you also temper out 99/98, that's Loruru & Saquinlu-azo. But there's a rule that's needed to ensure the name is unique: the 1st comma must have only one prime > 3, and it must be the smallest such prime. So you have to eliminale lo/lu by adding 5 of the 1st comma to the 2nd one, to get Satritriru. The final name is Satritriru & Loruru. Notice that the quartisma is no longer part of the name. Often very complex commas tend to get replaced with simpler ones. This is as it should be, because one is far more likely to actually employ a Loruru pump than a Saquinlu-azo pump! And the name should reference the more commonly used commas. Perhaps the most important characteristics of a temperament are the prime subgroup and the pergen. This one's pergen is (P8, P4/9), so it divides the 4th into 9 parts. So you could name it "Zala ninth-fourth". Zala means the 2.3.7.11 prime subgroup. But there will always be other temperaments with the same subgroup and pergen.