User:Lhearne/Extra-Diatonic Intervals: Difference between revisions

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=== Ups and Downs ===

One final interval naming system, associated with the [[Ups and Downs Notation|~~ups~~ and ~~downs notation~~]] system, belonging to microtonal theorist and musicians [[KiteGiedraitis|Kite Giedraitis]], like Sagittal is based on deviations from the diatonic scale. In this system however, deviations (from major, minor, perfect, augmented and diminished) are notated simply by the addition of up or down arrows: '^' or 'v', corresponding to raising or lowering of a single step of an edo. In some tunings (12edo, 19edo or 31edo for example) 5/4 may be a M3, and in others a vM3 (downmajor 3rd) (e.g. 15edo, 22edo, 41edo, 72edo), or even an up-major 3rd (e.g. 21edo). Ups and downs also includes neutrals, which lay exactly in-between major and minor intervals of the same degree, labelled '~' (mid). 'Up' and 'down' prefixes may be used before mid also, i.e. 'v~ 3). This system benefits from it's simplicity as well as it's conservation of interval arithmetic. It can be used for some MOS scales where one of the generators is a perfect fifth or a fraction of a perfect fifth, but not all of these (e.g. Diminished[8]), and not all MOS scales (if such scales are to be described, an additional pair of accidentals/qualifiers is used. Although the scales then are described, their intervals still are not given the same names in Ups and Downs' edo names). Another criticism of Kite's system that does not apply to the others is the fact that when an edo is doubled or multiplied by some simple fraction, and the best fifth is constant across the two edos, the same intervals may be be given different names.

One final interval naming system, associated with the [[Ups and Downs Notation|Ups and Downs Notation]] system, belonging to microtonal theorist and musicians [[KiteGiedraitis|Kite Giedraitis]], like Sagittal is based on deviations from the diatonic scale. In this system however, deviations (from major, minor, perfect, augmented and diminished) are notated simply by the addition of up or down arrows: '^' or 'v', corresponding to raising or lowering of a single step of an edo. In some tunings (12edo, 19edo or 31edo for example) 5/4 may be a M3, and in others a vM3 (downmajor 3rd) (e.g. 15edo, 22edo, 41edo, 72edo), or even an up-major 3rd (e.g. 21edo). Ups and downs also includes neutrals, which lay exactly in-between major and minor intervals of the same degree, labelled '~' (mid). 'Up' and 'down' prefixes may be used before mid also, i.e. 'v~ 3). This system benefits from it's simplicity as well as it's conservation of interval arithmetic. It can be used for some MOS scales where one of the generators is a perfect fifth or a fraction of a perfect fifth, but not all of these (e.g. Diminished[8]), and not all MOS scales (if such scales are to be described, an additional pair of accidentals/qualifiers is used. Although the scales then are described, their intervals still are not given the same names in Ups and Downs' edo names). Another criticism of Kite's system that does not apply to the others is the fact that when an edo is doubled or multiplied by some simple fraction, and the best fifth is constant across the two edos, the same intervals may be be given different names.

Igliashon Jones is a supporter of this system, but for the relabeling of 'down' as 'sub' and 'up' as 'super' (or supra) and 'mid' as 'neutral', so that more common names are used, wherein 'super' infers a raise of 1 step of the edo, and 'sub' a lowering of one step. In this 'Extra-diatonic' system 'super' and 'sub' may be doubly applied, as in ~~ups~~ and ~~downs~~, but they may not be applied before 'neutral' where in ~~ups~~ and ~~downs~~ they may be applied before 'mid'. The author's own extra-diatonic system is developed as a departure with caveat that 'S' and 's' prefixes are defined not as alterations by a single step of the edo, but by comma alterations as in Sagittal, in order that interval of MOS scales may be represented consistently across different tunings. Throughout the rest of the article the development is detailed, and the system defined.

Igliashon Jones is a supporter of this system, but for the relabeling of 'down' as 'sub' and 'up' as 'super' (or supra) and 'mid' as 'neutral', so that more common names are used, wherein 'super' infers a raise of 1 step of the edo, and 'sub' a lowering of one step. In this 'Extra-diatonic' system 'super' and 'sub' may be doubly applied, as in Ups and Downs, but they may not be applied before 'neutral' where in Ups and Downs they may be applied before 'mid'. The author's own extra-diatonic system is developed as a departure with caveat that 'S' and 's' prefixes are defined not as alterations by a single step of the edo, but by comma alterations as in Sagittal, in order that interval of MOS scales may be represented consistently across different tunings. Throughout the rest of the article the development is detailed, and the system defined.

== Premise: ==

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‘1-2’ lies exactly half-way between P1 and m2, dividing the m2 in half. It may be read ‘unison-second’ or ‘unicond’. Its octave-inverse, ‘7-8’, lies exactly half-way between M7 and P8 and may be read ‘seventh-octave’ or ‘sevtave’.

<!-- Soft edit: "Note that it conflicts with [[User:PiotrGrochowski/Extra-Diatonic Intervals — 50edo]]'s unison–second."

should this be rejected, accepted, or accepted with delay until Piotr's 50edo based notation is complete? -->

should this be rejected, accepted, or accepted with delay until Piotr's 50edo based notation is complete?

Hi Piotr (I'm guessing) Cool use of comments for 'soft edits'. Good place to talk here about it. My use of 1-2 is more aligned with 2-3 and 3-4 (common uses) than your is, where it splits the limma, the Pythagorean diatonic semitone. Half of the whole-tone, as you are using it isn't really ambiguously a unison or a second or both, it's very close to a minor second, and in 19edo, equivalent to it. -->

‘3-4’ lies exactly half-way between M3 and P4, dividing the M6 in half. It may be read ‘third-fourth’ or ‘thourth’. It’s octave-inverse, ‘5-6’, lies exactly half-way between P5 and m6 and may be read ‘fifth-sixth’ or ~~‘fixths’~~.

‘3-4’ lies exactly half-way between M3 and P4, dividing the M6 in half. It may be read ‘third-fourth’ or ‘thourth’. It’s octave-inverse, ‘5-6’, lies exactly half-way between P5 and m6 and may be read ‘fifth-sixth’ or ‘fixth’. <!-- plural?!

Oh yeah that was a typo, thanks for picking it up! -->

5edo can be spelled with the list of only these intermediates:

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 === Ups and Downs ===
-One final interval naming system, associated with the [[Ups and Downs Notation|ups and downs notation]] system, belonging to microtonal theorist and musicians [[KiteGiedraitis|Kite Giedraitis]], like Sagittal is based on deviations from the diatonic scale. In this system however, deviations (from major, minor, perfect, augmented and diminished) are notated simply by the addition of up or down arrows: '^' or 'v', corresponding to raising or lowering of a single step of an edo. In some tunings (12edo, 19edo or 31edo for example) 5/4 may be a M3, and in others a vM3 (downmajor 3rd) (e.g. 15edo, 22edo, 41edo, 72edo), or even an up-major 3rd (e.g. 21edo). Ups and downs also includes neutrals, which lay exactly in-between major and minor intervals of the same degree, labelled '~' (mid). 'Up' and 'down' prefixes may be used before mid also, i.e. 'v~ 3). This system benefits from it's simplicity as well as it's conservation of interval arithmetic. It can be used for some MOS scales where one of the generators is a perfect fifth or a fraction of a perfect fifth, but not all of these (e.g. Diminished[8]), and not all MOS scales (if such scales are to be described, an additional pair of accidentals/qualifiers is used. Although the scales then are described, their intervals still are not given the same names in Ups and Downs' edo names). Another criticism of Kite's system that does not apply to the others is the fact that when an edo is doubled or multiplied by some simple fraction, and the best fifth is constant across the two edos, the same intervals may be be given different names.
+One final interval naming system, associated with the [[Ups and Downs Notation|Ups and Downs Notation]] system, belonging to microtonal theorist and musicians [[KiteGiedraitis|Kite Giedraitis]], like Sagittal is based on deviations from the diatonic scale. In this system however, deviations (from major, minor, perfect, augmented and diminished) are notated simply by the addition of up or down arrows: '^' or 'v', corresponding to raising or lowering of a single step of an edo. In some tunings (12edo, 19edo or 31edo for example) 5/4 may be a M3, and in others a vM3 (downmajor 3rd) (e.g. 15edo, 22edo, 41edo, 72edo), or even an up-major 3rd (e.g. 21edo). Ups and downs also includes neutrals, which lay exactly in-between major and minor intervals of the same degree, labelled '~' (mid). 'Up' and 'down' prefixes may be used before mid also, i.e. 'v~ 3). This system benefits from it's simplicity as well as it's conservation of interval arithmetic. It can be used for some MOS scales where one of the generators is a perfect fifth or a fraction of a perfect fifth, but not all of these (e.g. Diminished[8]), and not all MOS scales (if such scales are to be described, an additional pair of accidentals/qualifiers is used. Although the scales then are described, their intervals still are not given the same names in Ups and Downs' edo names). Another criticism of Kite's system that does not apply to the others is the fact that when an edo is doubled or multiplied by some simple fraction, and the best fifth is constant across the two edos, the same intervals may be be given different names.
-Igliashon Jones is a supporter of this system, but for the relabeling of 'down' as 'sub' and 'up' as 'super' (or supra) and 'mid' as 'neutral', so that more common names are used, wherein 'super' infers a raise of 1 step of the edo, and 'sub' a lowering of one step. In this 'Extra-diatonic' system 'super' and 'sub' may be doubly applied, as in ups and downs, but they may not be applied before 'neutral' where in ups and downs they may be applied before 'mid'. The author's own extra-diatonic system is developed as a departure with caveat that 'S' and 's' prefixes are defined not as alterations by a single step of the edo, but by comma alterations as in Sagittal, in order that interval of MOS scales may be represented consistently across different tunings. Throughout the rest of the article the development is detailed, and the system defined.
+Igliashon Jones is a supporter of this system, but for the relabeling of 'down' as 'sub' and 'up' as 'super' (or supra) and 'mid' as 'neutral', so that more common names are used, wherein 'super' infers a raise of 1 step of the edo, and 'sub' a lowering of one step. In this 'Extra-diatonic' system 'super' and 'sub' may be doubly applied, as in Ups and Downs, but they may not be applied before 'neutral' where in Ups and Downs they may be applied before 'mid'. The author's own extra-diatonic system is developed as a departure with caveat that 'S' and 's' prefixes are defined not as alterations by a single step of the edo, but by comma alterations as in Sagittal, in order that interval of MOS scales may be represented consistently across different tunings. Throughout the rest of the article the development is detailed, and the system defined.
 == Premise: ==
@@ Line 104: / Line 104: @@
 ‘1-2’ lies exactly half-way between P1 and m2, dividing the m2 in half. It may be read ‘unison-second’ or ‘unicond’. Its octave-inverse, ‘7-8’, lies exactly half-way between M7 and P8 and may be read ‘seventh-octave’ or ‘sevtave’.
 <!-- Soft edit: "Note that it conflicts with [[User:PiotrGrochowski/Extra-Diatonic Intervals — 50edo]]'s unison–second."
-should this be rejected, accepted, or accepted with delay until Piotr's 50edo based notation is complete? -->
+should this be rejected, accepted, or accepted with delay until Piotr's 50edo based notation is complete?
+Hi Piotr (I'm guessing) Cool use of comments for 'soft edits'. Good place to talk here about it. My use of 1-2 is more aligned with 2-3 and 3-4 (common uses) than your is, where it splits the limma, the Pythagorean diatonic semitone. Half of the whole-tone, as you are using it isn't really ambiguously a unison or a second or both, it's very close to a minor second, and in 19edo, equivalent to it. -->
-‘3-4’ lies exactly half-way between M3 and P4, dividing the M6 in half. It may be read ‘third-fourth’ or ‘thourth’. It’s octave-inverse, ‘5-6’, lies exactly half-way between P5 and m6 and may be read ‘fifth-sixth’ or ‘fixths’. <!-- plural?! -->
+‘3-4’ lies exactly half-way between M3 and P4, dividing the M6 in half. It may be read ‘third-fourth’ or ‘thourth’. It’s octave-inverse, ‘5-6’, lies exactly half-way between P5 and m6 and may be read ‘fifth-sixth’ or ‘fixth’. <!-- plural?!
+Oh yeah that was a typo, thanks for picking it up! -->
 edo can be spelled with the list of only these intermediates: