User talk:Aura: Difference between revisions

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:::: I haven't worked with it myself, but I am trying to gain an understanding. Obviously it isn't easy -- Ivan Wyschnegradsky and a very few others figured it out, but only a very few others. But you gave me an idea of things to test, with the 1/1-25/22-14/11-3/2 chord. Although keep in mind that in 24edo (which Ivan Wyschnegradsky used most of the time, along with Alois Hába and a few compositions of Charles Ives), 14/11 maps down to the same as 5/4 (8\24) due to 24edo's badly flat 7th harmonic, while 25/22 maps not to the closest interval 9/8 as 4\24, but up to the same as 22/19 as 5\24, because its 5th harmonic is sharp (but not sharp enough for mapping as 25 instead of 5^2). But then again, I don't know whether Alois Hába or Charles Ives (ore much more recently, Scott Crothers) ever used 11L 2s as opposed to other ways of using 24edo; 11L 2s may be unique to Ivan Wyschnegradsky. Added: [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio|talk]]) 19:44, 6 April 2025 (UTC) Last modified: [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio|talk]]) 00:34, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

::::: Oddly enough, my experiments with how to handle the 11/8 paramajor fourth relative to the tonic have been largely carried out in 159edo, but I must say that even in 24edo, that 11/8 wants to go to either 3/2 relative to the tonic, or, to 4/3 relative to the tonic- at least in terms of chord roots. It should be noted that the 11/8 seems to literally bring in its own set of related accidentals relative to the key you're in- I've already hinted at 25/16 being dragged in, and the same is true with the 7/4, which, in this capacity, acts like an ultramajor sixth relative to the tonic. Naturally, the 33/32 will likely be dragged in as well, but what I didn't tell you is that 75/64 wants to rear ~~it's~~ head in scalar motion on a tIV chord- the only two default scale degrees relative to the tonic that can be used with a tIV chord are the 5/4, and the 15/8. Otherwise, if you use an 11/8, it has to either be part of a 1/1-11/8-3/2 suspension on the tonic, or as part of a 1/1-5/4-3/2-55/32 built on the 8/5 relative to the tonic. There are other chords I know, such as the 1/1-11/8-15/8 built on the tonic, or the 1/1-11/8-7/4 built on the tonic, but these tend to be harder to set up and follow up properly. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 02:50, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

::::: Oddly enough, my experiments with how to handle the 11/8 paramajor fourth relative to the tonic have been largely carried out in 159edo, but I must say that even in 24edo, that 11/8 wants to go to either 3/2 relative to the tonic, or, to 4/3 relative to the tonic- at least in terms of chord roots. It should be noted that the 11/8 seems to literally bring in its own set of related accidentals relative to the key you're in- I've already hinted at 25/16 being dragged in, and the same is true with the 7/4, which, in this capacity, acts like an ultramajor sixth relative to the tonic. Naturally, the 33/32 will likely be dragged in as well, but what I didn't tell you is that 75/64 wants to rear its head in scalar motion on a tIV chord- the only two default scale degrees relative to the tonic that can be used with a tIV chord are the 5/4, and the 15/8. Otherwise, if you use an 11/8, it has to either be part of a 1/1-11/8-3/2 suspension on the tonic, or as part of a 1/1-5/4-3/2-55/32 built on the 8/5 relative to the tonic. There are other chords I know, such as the 1/1-11/8-15/8 built on the tonic, or the 1/1-11/8-7/4 built on the tonic, but these tend to be harder to set up and follow up properly. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 02:50, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

Revision as of 02:50, 7 April 2025 view source Aura (talk \| contribs) autopatrolled, emailconfirmed 5,920 edits →Temperament(s) for Diatonicized Chromaticism? Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit ← Older edit		Revision as of 02:53, 7 April 2025 view source Aura (talk \| contribs) autopatrolled, emailconfirmed 5,920 edits →Temperament(s) for Diatonicized Chromaticism?: Fixed typo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Newer edit →
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	:::: I haven't worked with it myself, but I am trying to gain an understanding. Obviously it isn't easy -- Ivan Wyschnegradsky and a very few others figured it out, but only a very few others. But you gave me an idea of things to test, with the 1/1-25/22-14/11-3/2 chord. Although keep in mind that in 24edo (which Ivan Wyschnegradsky used most of the time, along with Alois Hába and a few compositions of Charles Ives), 14/11 maps down to the same as 5/4 (8\24) due to 24edo's badly flat 7th harmonic, while 25/22 maps not to the closest interval 9/8 as 4\24, but up to the same as 22/19 as 5\24, because its 5th harmonic is sharp (but not sharp enough for mapping as 25 instead of 5^2). But then again, I don't know whether Alois Hába or Charles Ives (ore much more recently, Scott Crothers) ever used 11L 2s as opposed to other ways of using 24edo; 11L 2s may be unique to Ivan Wyschnegradsky. Added: [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio\|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio\|talk]]) 19:44, 6 April 2025 (UTC) Last modified: [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio\|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio\|talk]]) 00:34, 7 April 2025 (UTC)		:::: I haven't worked with it myself, but I am trying to gain an understanding. Obviously it isn't easy -- Ivan Wyschnegradsky and a very few others figured it out, but only a very few others. But you gave me an idea of things to test, with the 1/1-25/22-14/11-3/2 chord. Although keep in mind that in 24edo (which Ivan Wyschnegradsky used most of the time, along with Alois Hába and a few compositions of Charles Ives), 14/11 maps down to the same as 5/4 (8\24) due to 24edo's badly flat 7th harmonic, while 25/22 maps not to the closest interval 9/8 as 4\24, but up to the same as 22/19 as 5\24, because its 5th harmonic is sharp (but not sharp enough for mapping as 25 instead of 5^2). But then again, I don't know whether Alois Hába or Charles Ives (ore much more recently, Scott Crothers) ever used 11L 2s as opposed to other ways of using 24edo; 11L 2s may be unique to Ivan Wyschnegradsky. Added: [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio\|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio\|talk]]) 19:44, 6 April 2025 (UTC) Last modified: [[User:Lucius Chiaraviglio\|Lucius Chiaraviglio]] ([[User talk:Lucius Chiaraviglio\|talk]]) 00:34, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

	::::: Oddly enough, my experiments with how to handle the 11/8 paramajor fourth relative to the tonic have been largely carried out in 159edo, but I must say that even in 24edo, that 11/8 wants to go to either 3/2 relative to the tonic, or, to 4/3 relative to the tonic- at least in terms of chord roots. It should be noted that the 11/8 seems to literally bring in its own set of related accidentals relative to the key you're in- I've already hinted at 25/16 being dragged in, and the same is true with the 7/4, which, in this capacity, acts like an ultramajor sixth relative to the tonic. Naturally, the 33/32 will likely be dragged in as well, but what I didn't tell you is that 75/64 wants to rear ~~it's~~ head in scalar motion on a tIV chord- the only two default scale degrees relative to the tonic that can be used with a tIV chord are the 5/4, and the 15/8. Otherwise, if you use an 11/8, it has to either be part of a 1/1-11/8-3/2 suspension on the tonic, or as part of a 1/1-5/4-3/2-55/32 built on the 8/5 relative to the tonic. There are other chords I know, such as the 1/1-11/8-15/8 built on the tonic, or the 1/1-11/8-7/4 built on the tonic, but these tend to be harder to set up and follow up properly. --[[User:Aura\|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura\|talk]]) 02:50, 7 April 2025 (UTC)		::::: Oddly enough, my experiments with how to handle the 11/8 paramajor fourth relative to the tonic have been largely carried out in 159edo, but I must say that even in 24edo, that 11/8 wants to go to either 3/2 relative to the tonic, or, to 4/3 relative to the tonic- at least in terms of chord roots. It should be noted that the 11/8 seems to literally bring in its own set of related accidentals relative to the key you're in- I've already hinted at 25/16 being dragged in, and the same is true with the 7/4, which, in this capacity, acts like an ultramajor sixth relative to the tonic. Naturally, the 33/32 will likely be dragged in as well, but what I didn't tell you is that 75/64 wants to rear its head in scalar motion on a tIV chord- the only two default scale degrees relative to the tonic that can be used with a tIV chord are the 5/4, and the 15/8. Otherwise, if you use an 11/8, it has to either be part of a 1/1-11/8-3/2 suspension on the tonic, or as part of a 1/1-5/4-3/2-55/32 built on the 8/5 relative to the tonic. There are other chords I know, such as the 1/1-11/8-15/8 built on the tonic, or the 1/1-11/8-7/4 built on the tonic, but these tend to be harder to set up and follow up properly. --[[User:Aura\|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura\|talk]]) 02:50, 7 April 2025 (UTC)