Talk:Meet and join: Difference between revisions

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::::: People have been talking about joining and meeting both vals and kernels for quite some time. The way you are proposing to use & for kernels would conflict with the more general usage of &, where it denotes the join of either vals or monzos. The symbols I chose weren't really an attempt to introduce something new, just a response to Douglas's suggestion to replace the curvy cup/wedge symbols with something easier to differentiate in text. I'd be willing to go with something like && and || though, if you'd like. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 00:20, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

:::::: For Mike:

:::::: I'll repeat my question, "Do you think this usage of & as a generic join/union operator is popular enough that you would dissuade others from using & for meeting temperaments and | for joining temperaments elsewhere? Or, to the best of your knowledge, is that just your personal practice?" In your reply to Sintel, it seems like you may be implicitly saying, "yes," but I'm not sure.

:::::: I've asked Graham how he thinks of the & operator. He made a strong argument in favor of it meaning the join of maps as opposed to the meet of temperaments (i.e. the intersection of comma bases): 5&19, in his x31eq tool, does not give meantone; it gives ''2-enfactored'' meantone. In other words, it's used simply to concatenate the maps, not the more complex operation that is described on this page, which helps you find a basis for only the commas tempered out by both temperaments, which would involve eliminating any enfactoring. So Graham agrees with you on this one, and I'm back to the drawing board.

:::::: Your suggestion to use && and || is intriguing, though. I like it. It's how AND and OR are done in very many popular programming languages. And the doubling of the symbols is suggestive of the higher order of the operation, i.e. it applies to abstract temperaments rather than literal vectors or matrices. Personally I would prefer this over the caps and cups you picked in your recent edit.

:::::: But perhaps we should give some time for other people to weigh in. This swap of the words "meet" and "join" was done without going through the standard protocols of posting in the Xenwiki Work Group on Facebook and the wiki channel of the Discord, so I've been doing some damage control and trying to bring people up to speed there. You did post in the Mathematical Theory group on Facebook, but I think the Xenwiki Work Group is always important when editing the wiki, even if you're its super-admin or whatever your role is exactly. So perhaps it would be good to make a follow-up post in these places, and at that time solicit input from the community re: the symbol as well. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 17:24, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

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 ::::: People have been talking about joining and meeting both vals and kernels for quite some time. The way you are proposing to use & for kernels would conflict with the more general usage of &, where it denotes the join of either vals or monzos. The symbols I chose weren't really an attempt to introduce something new, just a response to Douglas's suggestion to replace the curvy cup/wedge symbols with something easier to differentiate in text. I'd be willing to go with something like && and || though, if you'd like. [[User:Mike Battaglia|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia|talk]]) 00:20, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
+:::::: For Mike:
+:::::: I'll repeat my question, "Do you think this usage of & as a generic join/union operator is popular enough that you would dissuade others from using & for meeting temperaments and | for joining temperaments elsewhere? Or, to the best of your knowledge, is that just your personal practice?" In your reply to Sintel, it seems like you may be implicitly saying, "yes," but I'm not sure.
+:::::: I've asked Graham how he thinks of the & operator. He made a strong argument in favor of it meaning the join of maps as opposed to the meet of temperaments (i.e. the intersection of comma bases): 5&19, in his x31eq tool, does not give meantone; it gives ''2-enfactored'' meantone. In other words, it's used simply to concatenate the maps, not the more complex operation that is described on this page, which helps you find a basis for only the commas tempered out by both temperaments, which would involve eliminating any enfactoring. So Graham agrees with you on this one, and I'm back to the drawing board.
+:::::: Your suggestion to use && and || is intriguing, though. I like it. It's how AND and OR are done in very many popular programming languages. And the doubling of the symbols is suggestive of the higher order of the operation, i.e. it applies to abstract temperaments rather than literal vectors or matrices. Personally I would prefer this over the caps and cups you picked in your recent edit.
+:::::: But perhaps we should give some time for other people to weigh in. This swap of the words "meet" and "join" was done without going through the standard protocols of posting in the Xenwiki Work Group on Facebook and the wiki channel of the Discord, so I've been doing some damage control and trying to bring people up to speed there. You did post in the Mathematical Theory group on Facebook, but I think the Xenwiki Work Group is always important when editing the wiki, even if you're its super-admin or whatever your role is exactly. So perhaps it would be good to make a follow-up post in these places, and at that time solicit input from the community re: the symbol as well. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 17:24, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 == Suggestion to add a helpful image ==