34edo: Difference between revisions

Wikispaces>Kosmorsky
**Imported revision 469917004 - Original comment: **
Wikispaces>Kosmorsky
**Imported revision 470061452 - Original comment: **
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<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
: This revision was by author [[User:Kosmorsky|Kosmorsky]] and made on <tt>2013-11-17 22:04:10 UTC</tt>.<br>
: This revision was by author [[User:Kosmorsky|Kosmorsky]] and made on <tt>2013-11-18 10:48:15 UTC</tt>.<br>
: The original revision id was <tt>469917004</tt>.<br>
: The original revision id was <tt>470061452</tt>.<br>
: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
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===Approximations to Just Intonation===  
===Approximations to Just Intonation===  
Like [[xenharmonic/17edo|17edo]], 34edo contains good approximations of just intervals involving 13 and 3 -- specifically, 13/8, 13/12, 13/9 and their inversions -- while failing to closely approximate ratios of 7 or 11. 34edo adds ratios of 5 into the mix -- including 5/4, 6/5, 9/5, 15/8, 13/10, 15/13, and their inversions -- as well as 17 -- including 17/16, 18/17, 17/12, 17/10, 17/13, 17/15 and their inversions. Since it distinguishes between 9/8 and 10/9 (exaggerating the difference between them, the syntonic comma of 81/80, from 21.5 cents to 35.3 cents), it is suitable for 5-limit JI. It is not a [[xenharmonic/meantone|meantone ]]system.
Like [[xenharmonic/17edo|17edo]], 34edo contains good approximations of just intervals involving 13 and 3 -- specifically, 13/8, 13/12, 13/9 and their inversions -- while failing to closely approximate ratios of 7 or 11.* 34edo adds ratios of 5 into the mix -- including 5/4, 6/5, 9/5, 15/8, 13/10, 15/13, and their inversions -- as well as 17 -- including 17/16, 18/17, 17/12, 17/10, 17/13, 17/15 and their inversions. Since it distinguishes between 9/8 and 10/9 (exaggerating the difference between them, the "syntonic comma" of 81/80, from 21.5 cents to 35.3 cents), it is suitable for 5-limit JI. It is not a [[xenharmonic/meantone|meantone ]]system. In layman's terms while no number of fifths (frequently ratios of ~3:2) land on major or minor thirds, an even number of major or minor thirds, technically will be the same pitch as something, somewhere upon the cycle of seventeen fifths.


//Viewed in light of Western diatonic theory, the three extra steps (of 34-et compared to 31-et) in effect widen the intervals between C and D, F and G, and A and B [that is: 6 5 3 6 5 6 3], thus making a distinction between major tones, ratio 9/8 and minor tones, ratio 10/9.// ([[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/34_equal_temperament|Wikipedia]])
//Viewed in light of Western diatonic theory, the three extra steps (of 34-et compared to 31-et) in effect widen the intervals between C and D, F and G, and A and B [that is: 6 5 3 6 5 6 3], thus making a distinction between major tones, ratio 9/8 and minor tones, ratio 10/9.// ([[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/34_equal_temperament|Wikipedia]])
*The sharpness of ~13 cents of 11/8 can fit somewhat with the 9/8 and 13/8 which both are about 7 cents sharp. Likewise the 20-cent sharpness or flatness of either approximation to 7/4 isn't impossible. The ability to tolerate these errors may depend on subtle natural changes in mood. [[68edo]], double 34, has both these intervals in more perfect form, the 7 especially so.


===34edo and phi===  
===34edo and phi===  
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of the full [[xenharmonic/17-limit|17-limit]] || pseudo-traditional
of the full [[xenharmonic/17-limit|17-limit]] || pseudo-traditional
notation ||
notation ||
|| 0 || do || 0.0 || 1/1 ||  || C ||
|| 0 || do || 0.0 || 1/1 ||  || C = B^^ = A## ||
|| 1 || di || 35.294 ||  ||  || C ^ ||
|| 1 || di || 35.294 ||  ||  || C ^ ||
|| 2 || rih || 70.588 ||  ||  || Db = C ^^ = B# ||
|| 2 || rih || 70.588 ||  ||  || Db = C ^^ = B# ||
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|| 33 || da || 1164.706 ||  ||  || B^ = A##v ||
|| 33 || da || 1164.706 ||  ||  || B^ = A##v ||
==&lt;span style="background-color: #ffffff;"&gt;Notations&lt;/span&gt;==  
==&lt;span style="background-color: #ffffff;"&gt;Notations&lt;/span&gt;==  
The chain of fifths gives you the seven naturals, and their sharps and flats. The sharp or flat of a note is (what is commonly called) a neutral second away - the double-sharp adds up to a minor third away. This has led certain complainers, aiming to notate 17 edo (which is relatively popular), to want an extra modifying mark to raise something a small step of which. The 34 tone equal temperament, however, can be constructed from two equally spaced 17-note scales: a symbol indicating an adjustment of 1/34 up or down can also serves the purpose of the previous sentence, by using two of it. This of course emphasizes certain aspects of 34-edo which may not be most efficient for some musical purposes. The reader can easily construct a notation. One concern is that a system with 15 nominals for example, instead of seven, might be waste - of paper, space, brainmemory etc. if they aren't used consecutively and frequently. The system spelled out here has familiarity as an advantage or disadvantage. Tangentially, while the table uses ^ and v for "up" and "down", Kosmorosky prefers using filled in triangles because that's what I decided on years ago, and he's one of a handful of people worldwide who uses the tuning extensively, as far as I know, but whatever, I can't hit you through a computer if you use alternate symbols!
The chain of fifths gives you the seven naturals, and their sharps and flats. The sharp or flat of a note is (what is commonly called) a neutral second away - the double-sharp adds up to a minor third away. This has led certain complainers, aiming to notate 17 edo (which is relatively popular), to want an extra character to raise something a small step of which. The 34 tone equal temperament, however, can be constructed from two equally spaced 17-note scales: a symbol indicating an adjustment of 1/34 up or down also serves the purpose of the previous sentence, by using two of it. This systemology of course emphasizes certain aspects of 34-edo which may not be most efficient expressions of some musical purposes: The reader can easily construct his own notation. One concern is that a system with 15 nominals for example, instead of seven, might be waste - of paper, space, brainmemory etc. if they aren't used consecutively and frequently. The system spelled out here has familiarity as an advantage or disadvantage. Tangentially, while the table uses ^ and v for "up" and "down", Kosmorosky prefers using filled in triangles because that's what I decided on years ago, and he's one of a handful of people worldwide who uses the tuning extensively, as far as I know, but whatever, I can't hit you through a computer if you use alternate symbols!


==&lt;span style="background-color: #ffffff;"&gt;Commas&lt;/span&gt;==  
==&lt;span style="background-color: #ffffff;"&gt;Commas&lt;/span&gt;==  
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==Listen==  
==Listen==  
* [[@http://www.archive.org/details/Ascension_105|Ascension]] (drums, bass, and 34-tone guitar)
* [[@http://www.archive.org/details/Ascension_105|Ascension]]
* [[@https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXTM0HeuExk|Uncomfortable In Crowds (extended)]] by Robin Perry
* [[@https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXTM0HeuExk|Uncomfortable In Crowds (extended)]] by Robin Perry
==Links==  
==Links==  
* [[http://www.microstick.net/34guitararticle.htm|34 Equal Guitar]] by [[xenharmonic/Larry Hanson|Larry Hanson]]</pre></div>
* [[http://www.microstick.net/34guitararticle.htm|34 Equal Guitar]] by [[xenharmonic/Larry Hanson|Larry Hanson]]
* [[https://microstick.net|http://microstick.net/]] websites of Neil Haverstick
* [[https://myspace.com/microstick]]</pre></div>
<h4>Original HTML content:</h4>
<h4>Original HTML content:</h4>
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&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:2:&amp;lt;h3&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h3 id="toc1"&gt;&lt;a name="x--Approximations to Just Intonation"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:2 --&gt;Approximations to Just Intonation&lt;/h3&gt;
&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:2:&amp;lt;h3&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h3 id="toc1"&gt;&lt;a name="x--Approximations to Just Intonation"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:2 --&gt;Approximations to Just Intonation&lt;/h3&gt;
  Like &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/17edo"&gt;17edo&lt;/a&gt;, 34edo contains good approximations of just intervals involving 13 and 3 -- specifically, 13/8, 13/12, 13/9 and their inversions -- while failing to closely approximate ratios of 7 or 11. 34edo adds ratios of 5 into the mix -- including 5/4, 6/5, 9/5, 15/8, 13/10, 15/13, and their inversions -- as well as 17 -- including 17/16, 18/17, 17/12, 17/10, 17/13, 17/15 and their inversions. Since it distinguishes between 9/8 and 10/9 (exaggerating the difference between them, the syntonic comma of 81/80, from 21.5 cents to 35.3 cents), it is suitable for 5-limit JI. It is not a &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/meantone"&gt;meantone &lt;/a&gt;system.&lt;br /&gt;
  Like &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/17edo"&gt;17edo&lt;/a&gt;, 34edo contains good approximations of just intervals involving 13 and 3 -- specifically, 13/8, 13/12, 13/9 and their inversions -- while failing to closely approximate ratios of 7 or 11.* 34edo adds ratios of 5 into the mix -- including 5/4, 6/5, 9/5, 15/8, 13/10, 15/13, and their inversions -- as well as 17 -- including 17/16, 18/17, 17/12, 17/10, 17/13, 17/15 and their inversions. Since it distinguishes between 9/8 and 10/9 (exaggerating the difference between them, the &amp;quot;syntonic comma&amp;quot; of 81/80, from 21.5 cents to 35.3 cents), it is suitable for 5-limit JI. It is not a &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/meantone"&gt;meantone &lt;/a&gt;system. In layman's terms while no number of fifths (frequently ratios of ~3:2) land on major or minor thirds, an even number of major or minor thirds, technically will be the same pitch as something, somewhere upon the cycle of seventeen fifths.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;em&gt;Viewed in light of Western diatonic theory, the three extra steps (of 34-et compared to 31-et) in effect widen the intervals between C and D, F and G, and A and B [that is: 6 5 3 6 5 6 3], thus making a distinction between major tones, ratio 9/8 and minor tones, ratio 10/9.&lt;/em&gt; (&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/34_equal_temperament" rel="nofollow"&gt;Wikipedia&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;em&gt;Viewed in light of Western diatonic theory, the three extra steps (of 34-et compared to 31-et) in effect widen the intervals between C and D, F and G, and A and B [that is: 6 5 3 6 5 6 3], thus making a distinction between major tones, ratio 9/8 and minor tones, ratio 10/9.&lt;/em&gt; (&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/34_equal_temperament" rel="nofollow"&gt;Wikipedia&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*The sharpness of ~13 cents of 11/8 can fit somewhat with the 9/8 and 13/8 which both are about 7 cents sharp. Likewise the 20-cent sharpness or flatness of either approximation to 7/4 isn't impossible. The ability to tolerate these errors may depend on subtle natural changes in mood. &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/68edo"&gt;68edo&lt;/a&gt;, double 34, has both these intervals in more perfect form, the 7 especially so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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         &lt;td&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
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         &lt;td&gt;C&lt;br /&gt;
         &lt;td&gt;C = B^^ = A##&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
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&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:10:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc5"&gt;&lt;a name="x-Notations"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:10 --&gt;&lt;span style="background-color: #ffffff;"&gt;Notations&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;
&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:10:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc5"&gt;&lt;a name="x-Notations"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:10 --&gt;&lt;span style="background-color: #ffffff;"&gt;Notations&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;
  The chain of fifths gives you the seven naturals, and their sharps and flats. The sharp or flat of a note is (what is commonly called) a neutral second away - the double-sharp adds up to a minor third away. This has led certain complainers, aiming to notate 17 edo (which is relatively popular), to want an extra modifying mark to raise something a small step of which. The 34 tone equal temperament, however, can be constructed from two equally spaced 17-note scales: a symbol indicating an adjustment of 1/34 up or down can also serves the purpose of the previous sentence, by using two of it. This of course emphasizes certain aspects of 34-edo which may not be most efficient for some musical purposes. The reader can easily construct a notation. One concern is that a system with 15 nominals for example, instead of seven, might be waste - of paper, space, brainmemory etc. if they aren't used consecutively and frequently. The system spelled out here has familiarity as an advantage or disadvantage. Tangentially, while the table uses ^ and v for &amp;quot;up&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;down&amp;quot;, Kosmorosky prefers using filled in triangles because that's what I decided on years ago, and he's one of a handful of people worldwide who uses the tuning extensively, as far as I know, but whatever, I can't hit you through a computer if you use alternate symbols!&lt;br /&gt;
  The chain of fifths gives you the seven naturals, and their sharps and flats. The sharp or flat of a note is (what is commonly called) a neutral second away - the double-sharp adds up to a minor third away. This has led certain complainers, aiming to notate 17 edo (which is relatively popular), to want an extra character to raise something a small step of which. The 34 tone equal temperament, however, can be constructed from two equally spaced 17-note scales: a symbol indicating an adjustment of 1/34 up or down also serves the purpose of the previous sentence, by using two of it. This systemology of course emphasizes certain aspects of 34-edo which may not be most efficient expressions of some musical purposes: The reader can easily construct his own notation. One concern is that a system with 15 nominals for example, instead of seven, might be waste - of paper, space, brainmemory etc. if they aren't used consecutively and frequently. The system spelled out here has familiarity as an advantage or disadvantage. Tangentially, while the table uses ^ and v for &amp;quot;up&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;down&amp;quot;, Kosmorosky prefers using filled in triangles because that's what I decided on years ago, and he's one of a handful of people worldwide who uses the tuning extensively, as far as I know, but whatever, I can't hit you through a computer if you use alternate symbols!&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:14:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc7"&gt;&lt;a name="x-Listen"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:14 --&gt;Listen&lt;/h2&gt;
  &lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="http://www.archive.org/details/Ascension_105" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Ascension&lt;/a&gt; (drums, bass, and 34-tone guitar)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXTM0HeuExk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Uncomfortable In Crowds (extended)&lt;/a&gt; by Robin Perry&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:16:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc8"&gt;&lt;a name="x-Links"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:16 --&gt;Links&lt;/h2&gt;
  &lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="http://www.archive.org/details/Ascension_105" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Ascension&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXTM0HeuExk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"&gt;Uncomfortable In Crowds (extended)&lt;/a&gt; by Robin Perry&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:16:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc8"&gt;&lt;a name="x-Links"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:16 --&gt;Links&lt;/h2&gt;
  &lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="http://www.microstick.net/34guitararticle.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;34 Equal Guitar&lt;/a&gt; by &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/Larry%20Hanson"&gt;Larry Hanson&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</pre></div>
  &lt;ul&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="http://www.microstick.net/34guitararticle.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;34 Equal Guitar&lt;/a&gt; by &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="http://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/Larry%20Hanson"&gt;Larry Hanson&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="https://microstick.net" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://microstick.net/&lt;/a&gt; websites of Neil Haverstick&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="https://myspace.com/microstick" rel="nofollow"&gt;https://myspace.com/microstick&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</pre></div>