5L 3s: Difference between revisions

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m Add interval table for Tridec/Ammonite, mention relation to porcupine temperament
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In terms of [[regular temperament]]s, there are at least two melodically viable ways to interpret oneirotonic:
In terms of [[regular temperament]]s, there are at least two melodically viable ways to interpret oneirotonic:
# When the generator is between 457.14¢ (8\21) and 461.54¢ (5\13): [[5L_3s#Petrtri_.2813.2621.2C_2.5.9.11.13.17.29|Petrtri]] (13&21, a 4:5:9:11:13:17 or 2.5.9.11.13.17 temperament)
# When the generator is between 457.14¢ (8\21) and 461.54¢ (5\13): [[5L_3s#Petrtri_.2813.2621.2C_2.5.9.11.13.17.29|Petrtri]] (13&21, a 2.5.9.11.13.17 temperament that approximates the harmonic series chord 4:5:9:11:13:17)
# When the generator is between 461.54¢ (5\13) and 466.67¢ (7\18): [[A-Team]] (13&18, a 4:5:9:21 or 2.9.5.21 temperament)
# When the generator is between 461.54¢ (5\13) and 466.67¢ (7\18): [[A-Team]] (13&18, a 2.9.5.21 temperament that approximates 4:5:9:21)
In a sense, these two temperaments represent the middle of the oneirotonic spectrum (with the L/s ratio ranging from 3/2 to 3/1); [[13edo]] represents both temperaments, with a L/s ratio of 2/1. This is analogous to how in the diatonic spectrum, the [[19edo]]-to-[[17edo]]-range has the least extreme ratio of large to small step sizes, with [[12edo]] representing both [[meantone]] (19edo to 12edo) and [[pythagorean]]/[[neogothic]] (12edo to 17edo).
In a sense, these two temperaments represent the middle of the oneirotonic spectrum (with the L/s ratio ranging from 3/2 to 3/1); [[13edo]] represents both temperaments, with a L/s ratio of 2/1. This is analogous to how in the diatonic spectrum, the [[19edo]]-to-[[17edo]]-range has the least extreme ratio of large to small step sizes, with [[12edo]] representing both [[meantone]] (19edo to 12edo) and [[pythagorean]]/[[neogothic]] (12edo to 17edo).


More extreme oneirotonic temperaments include:
More extreme oneirotonic temperaments include:
* [[Chromatic pairs#Tridec|Tridec]] (a 5:7:11:13 or 2.7/5.11/5.13/5 subgroup temperament), when the generator is between 453.33c (17\45) and 457.14c (8\21). These have near-equal L/s ratios of 6/5 to 3/2.
* [[Chromatic pairs#Tridec|Tridec]] (a 2.3.7/5.11/5.13/5 subgroup temperament that approximates 5:7:11:13:15), when the generator is between 453.33c (17\45) and 457.14c (8\21). These have near-equal L/s ratios of 6/5 to 3/2.
* [[Hemifamity_temperaments#Buzzard|Buzzard]], when the generator is between 471.42¢ (11\28) and 480¢ (2\5). While this is a harmonically accurate temperament, with 4 generators reaching [[3/2]] and -3 generators [[7/4]], it is relatively weak melodically, as the optimum size of the small steps is around 20-25 cents, making it difficult to distinguish from equal pentatonic.
* [[Hemifamity_temperaments#Buzzard|Buzzard]], when the generator is between 471.42¢ (11\28) and 480¢ (2\5). While this is a harmonically accurate temperament, with 4 generators reaching [[3/2]] and -3 generators [[7/4]], it is relatively weak melodically, as the optimum size of the small steps is around 20-25 cents, making it difficult to distinguish from equal pentatonic.


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=== Tridec (29&37) ===
=== Tridec (29&37) ===
In the broad sense, Tridec can be viewed as any oneirotonic tuning that equates three oneirotonic large steps to a [[4/3]] perfect fourth. [This identification may come in handy since many altered oneirotonic modes have three consecutive large steps.] Based on the JI interpretations of the [[29edo]] and [[37edo]] tunings, it can in fact be viewed as a 2.3.7/5.11/5.13/5 temperament, i.e. a [[Non-over-2 temperament|non-over-2 temperament]] that approximates the chord 5:7:11:13:15. The optimal generator is 455.2178c, which is very close to 29edo's 11\29 (455.17c), but we could accept any generator between 17\45 (453.33c) and 8\21 (457.14c), if we stipulate that the 3/2 has to be between [[7edo]]'s fifth and [[5edo]]'s fifth.
In the broad sense, Tridec can be viewed as any oneirotonic tuning that equates three oneirotonic large steps to a [[4/3]] perfect fourth. [This identification may come in handy since many altered oneirotonic modes have three consecutive large steps.] Based on the JI interpretations of the [[29edo]] and [[37edo]] tunings, it can in fact be viewed as a 2.3.7/5.11/5.13/5 temperament, i.e. a [[Non-over-2 temperament|non-over-2 temperament]] that approximates the chord 5:7:11:13:15. The optimal generator is 455.2178c, which is very close to 29edo's 11\29 (455.17c), but we could accept any generator between 17\45 (453.33c) and 8\21 (457.14c), if we stipulate that the 3/2 has to be between [[7edo]]'s fifth and [[5edo]]'s fifth.
Tridec essentially contains all the notes of 2.3.5 [[porcupine]] temperament and satisfies all its relations; see [[Ammonite]] for more information on the relevant [[extension]] of Tridec that includes porcupine.


The sizes of the generator, large step and small step of oneirotonic are as follows in various tridec tunings.
The sizes of the generator, large step and small step of oneirotonic are as follows in various tridec tunings.
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==== Intervals ====
Sortable table of intervals in the Dylathian mode and their Tridec interpretations:
{| class="wikitable right-2 right-3 right-4 sortable"
|-
! Degree
! Size in 21edo
! Size in 29edo
! Size in 37edo
! Size in POTE tuning
! Note name on L
! class="unsortable"| Approximate ratios
! #Gens up
|-
| 1
| 0\21, 0.00
| 0\29, 0.00
| 0\37, 0.00
| 0.00
| L
| '''1/1'''
| 0
|-
| 2
| 3\21, 171.43
| 4\29, 165.52
| 5\37, 163.16
| 165.65
| M
| 11/10, 10/9
| +3
|-
| 3
| 6\21, 342.86
| 8\29, 331.03
| 10\37, 324.32
| 331.31
| N
| 11/9, 6/5
| +6
|-
| 4
| 8\21, 457.14
| 11\29, 455.17
| 14\37, 454.05
| 455.17
| O
| 13/10, 9/7
| +1
|-
| 5
| 11\21, 628.57
| 15\29, 620.69
| 19\37, 616.22
| 620.87
| P
| 13/9, 10/7
| +4
|-
| 6
| 14\21, 800.00
| 19\29, 786.21
| 23\37, 778.38
| 786.52
| Q
| 11/7
| +7
|-
| 7
| 16\21, 914.29
| 22\29, 910.34
| 28\37, 908.11
| 910.44
| J
| 22/13
| +2
|-
| 8
| 19\21, 1085.71
| 26\29, 1075.86
| 33\37, 1070.27
| 1076.09
| K
| 13/7, 28/15
| +5
|}


=== Petrtri (13&21, 2.5.9.11.13.17) ===
=== Petrtri (13&21, 2.5.9.11.13.17) ===