User talk:Rperlner: Difference between revisions

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::::::: I should point out that the D A wolf fourth leap does kind of work the way you say it should in that the A immediately resolves to the tonic B. However, the resolution doesn't seem very effective. Resolving the wolf fourth outward to the G sounds much smoother to my ear, but of course G is not the tonic I'm looking for. Again I see this as a scale structure thing, where the wolf fourth is wide due to being made from two 9/8 wholetones and a 16/15 semitone instead of a 9/8 a 10/9 and a 16/15. It seems more effective to resolve the interval by expanding out by a 10/9 wholetone and restoring balance than contracting to a minor third by taking back the extra 9/8 whole tone. Anyway, I'll let you know if I ever make another attempt to make a non-meantone diatonic fugue work. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 04:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

:::::::: Your observations are spot on. Indeed, it is not for nothing that the D-A wolf fourth's resolution to B-Minor is not a final resolution- although this provides a decrease in tension, this decrease in tension can be compared to the calm before a storm. In fact, the D-Wolf-Open-to-B-Minor progression is often followed up by F-Major as the last chord in the musical phrase- a Tyrant half cadence. The D-A wolf fifth can be thought of as the parallel to the Tyrant chord in the same way that E-Minor is the Dominant Parallel in C-Major- the parallel chord is usually not as strong as the chord to which it acts as the parallel. As to the resolution from the D-A wolf fifth to G-Open, this is followed up by C-Open (1/1-3/2-2/1-3/1) as the chord on the Flat-2 (root related to the Tonic by 16/15), which is in turn followed up by a full Tyrant cadence consisting of F-Major (1/1-3/2-5/2) followed by B-Minor (1/1-2/1-77/32-4/1). Dare I point out that the entire sequence is actually part of Locrian's circle progression, which goes like this- B-Minor, E-Open, A-Open, D-Wolf-Open, G-Open, C-Open, F-Major, and finally, B-Minor. Locrian's circle progression is the strongest progression that Locrian mode has to offer, and because of that, it's best saved for closing out a lengthy passage. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

:::::::: Your observations about the resolutions of the wolf fourth are spot on. Indeed, it is not for nothing that the D-A wolf fourth's resolution to B-Minor is not a final resolution- although this provides a decrease in tension, this decrease in tension can be compared to the calm before a storm. In fact, the D-Wolf-Open-to-B-Minor progression is often followed up by F-Major as the last chord in the musical phrase- a Tyrant half cadence. The D-A wolf fifth can be thought of as the parallel to the Tyrant chord in the same way that E-Minor is the Dominant Parallel in C-Major- the parallel chord is usually not as strong as the chord to which it acts as the parallel. As to the resolution from the D-A wolf fifth to G-Open, this is followed up by C-Open (1/1-3/2-2/1-3/1) as the chord on the Flat-2 (root related to the Tonic by 16/15), which is in turn followed up by a full Tyrant cadence consisting of F-Major (1/1-3/2-5/2) followed by B-Minor (1/1-2/1-77/32-4/1). Dare I point out that the entire sequence is actually part of Locrian's circle progression, which goes like this- B-Minor, E-Open, A-Open, D-Wolf-Open, G-Open, C-Open, F-Major, and finally, B-Minor. Locrian's circle progression is the strongest progression that Locrian mode has to offer, and because of that, it's best saved for closing out a lengthy passage. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

:: I know this may sound hard to believe, but in all my experimenting with different intervals, I've found that the wrong kind of interval involving small-number-ratios between the wrong two notes actually works against the formation of a sense of tonality. Conversely, a more tense-sounding interval in the right location- yes, even if the interval in question happens to be [[40/27]]- can actually strengthen your sense of tonality. Yes, intervals with small-number-ratios are vital to establishing tonality, but because of their power, they have to be well-placed within the tonal system, or otherwise the sense of tonality shifts when you don't want it to. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

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 ::::::: I should point out that the D A wolf fourth leap does kind of work the way you say it should in that the A immediately resolves to the tonic B. However, the resolution doesn't seem very effective. Resolving the wolf fourth outward to the G sounds much smoother to my ear, but of course G is not the tonic I'm looking for. Again I see this as a scale structure thing, where the wolf fourth is wide due to being made from two 9/8 wholetones and a 16/15 semitone instead of a 9/8 a 10/9 and a 16/15. It seems more effective to resolve the interval by expanding out by a 10/9 wholetone and restoring balance than contracting to a minor third by taking back the extra 9/8 whole tone. Anyway, I'll let you know if I ever make another attempt to make a non-meantone diatonic fugue work. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 04:12, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
-::::::::  Your observations are spot on.  Indeed, it is not for nothing that the D-A wolf fourth's resolution to B-Minor is not a final resolution- although this provides a decrease in tension, this decrease in tension can be compared to the calm before a storm.  In fact, the D-Wolf-Open-to-B-Minor progression is often followed up by F-Major as the last chord in the musical phrase- a Tyrant half cadence.  The D-A wolf fifth can be thought of as the parallel to the Tyrant chord in the same way that E-Minor is the Dominant Parallel in C-Major- the parallel chord is usually not as strong as the chord to which it acts as the parallel.  As to the resolution from the D-A wolf fifth to G-Open, this is followed up by C-Open (1/1-3/2-2/1-3/1) as the chord on the Flat-2 (root related to the Tonic by 16/15), which is in turn followed up by a full Tyrant cadence consisting of F-Major (1/1-3/2-5/2) followed by B-Minor (1/1-2/1-77/32-4/1).  Dare I point out that the entire sequence is actually part of Locrian's circle progression, which goes like this- B-Minor, E-Open, A-Open, D-Wolf-Open, G-Open, C-Open, F-Major, and finally, B-Minor.  Locrian's circle progression is the strongest progression that Locrian mode has to offer, and because of that, it's best saved for closing out a lengthy passage. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
+::::::::  Your observations about the resolutions of the wolf fourth are spot on.  Indeed, it is not for nothing that the D-A wolf fourth's resolution to B-Minor is not a final resolution- although this provides a decrease in tension, this decrease in tension can be compared to the calm before a storm.  In fact, the D-Wolf-Open-to-B-Minor progression is often followed up by F-Major as the last chord in the musical phrase- a Tyrant half cadence.  The D-A wolf fifth can be thought of as the parallel to the Tyrant chord in the same way that E-Minor is the Dominant Parallel in C-Major- the parallel chord is usually not as strong as the chord to which it acts as the parallel.  As to the resolution from the D-A wolf fifth to G-Open, this is followed up by C-Open (1/1-3/2-2/1-3/1) as the chord on the Flat-2 (root related to the Tonic by 16/15), which is in turn followed up by a full Tyrant cadence consisting of F-Major (1/1-3/2-5/2) followed by B-Minor (1/1-2/1-77/32-4/1).  Dare I point out that the entire sequence is actually part of Locrian's circle progression, which goes like this- B-Minor, E-Open, A-Open, D-Wolf-Open, G-Open, C-Open, F-Major, and finally, B-Minor.  Locrian's circle progression is the strongest progression that Locrian mode has to offer, and because of that, it's best saved for closing out a lengthy passage. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 :: I know this may sound hard to believe, but in all my experimenting with different intervals, I've found that the wrong kind of interval involving small-number-ratios between the wrong two notes actually works against the formation of a sense of tonality.  Conversely, a more tense-sounding interval in the right location- yes, even if the interval in question happens to be [[40/27]]- can actually strengthen your sense of tonality.  Yes, intervals with small-number-ratios are vital to establishing tonality, but because of their power, they have to be well-placed within the tonal system, or otherwise the sense of tonality shifts when you don't want it to. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)