User talk:Rperlner: Difference between revisions

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:::: So, I'm reworking one of my other pieces, but it seems to me that the more extensive harmonic development seen in Baroque-style pieces registers to me as a series of rapid-fire key changes. Furthermore, they seem to provide a sense of being unmoored- that is, they create such instability as to express a sense of disorientation, and that to the point where a resolution doesn't really feel like a resolution without careful setup. Therefore, my approach would involve trying to make the destination more clear towards the end of the song especially. What's more, as I incorporate the rapid-fire key changes using Xenharmonic intervals, I find that these key changes are significantly more difficult to work out- though you do reap some interesting rewards for doing this correctly. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

::::: Interesting. As another (related only via your writings on Locrian mode) suggestion: You might want to look into Maqam Lami, the Arabic equivalent of the Western Locrian scale as described, for example, here: https://offtonic.com/theory/book/7-9.html#kurd-family . It is described using Pythagorean tuning there and elsewhere, but Arabic intonation is reasonably variable, and at least one diatonic mode is described using JI (or a 53 EDO approximation thereof.) See https://offtonic.com/theory/book/7-9.html#ajam-family. It seems to me that the natural way to extend this JI aesthetic, to the Kurd tetrachords used to construct Maqam Lami, would be to tune them as 1 : 16/15 : 6/5 : 4/3. I think this results in the same Locrian scale as yours, up to a Keenanisma. Maqam Lami is a relatively recent invention and somewhat rarely used, but it is used, so the way it is handled in Arabic music may give you ideas that match with your existing ideas about how to handle the mode. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 02:25, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

::::: In other news, I experimented with replacing the meantone scale with a JI-like scale in Locrian Fugue, using 53 EDO and up and down arrow accidentals (and adjusting for modulations/transposition). I also tried strengthening the effect and getting the smaller minor 3rds to approximate 7/6 using the same accidentals and 34 or 22 EDO tuning. The problem with the obvious 1 : 16/15 : 6/5 : 4/3 : 64/45 =? 7/5 : 8/5 : 9/5 : 2 Locrian scale is that there's a prominent leap of a wolf 4th from D to A in the second measure of the subject, which sounds wonky. I also tried correcting it to a perfect fourth (raising the A by a comma when in B Locrian), but the whole thing still seems a bit off balance, so I still prefer 12 EDO for this song. An, interesting experiment, nonetheless. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 02:25, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

:: I know this may sound hard to believe, but in all my experimenting with different intervals, I've found that the wrong kind of interval involving small-number-ratios between the wrong two notes actually works against the formation of a sense of tonality. Conversely, a more tense-sounding interval in the right location- yes, even if the interval in question happens to be [[40/27]]- can actually strengthen your sense of tonality. Yes, intervals with small-number-ratios are vital to establishing tonality, but because of their power, they have to be well-placed within the tonal system, or otherwise the sense of tonality shifts when you don't want it to. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

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 :::: So, I'm reworking one of my other pieces, but it seems to me that the more extensive harmonic development seen in Baroque-style pieces registers to me as a series of rapid-fire key changes.  Furthermore, they seem to provide a sense of being unmoored- that is, they create such instability as to express a sense of disorientation, and that to the point where a resolution doesn't really feel like a resolution without careful setup.  Therefore, my approach would involve trying to make the destination more clear towards the end of the song especially.  What's more, as I incorporate the rapid-fire key changes using Xenharmonic intervals, I find that these key changes are significantly more difficult to work out- though you do reap some interesting rewards for doing this correctly. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
+::::: Interesting. As another (related only via your writings on Locrian mode) suggestion: You might want to look into Maqam Lami, the Arabic equivalent of the Western Locrian scale as described, for example, here: https://offtonic.com/theory/book/7-9.html#kurd-family . It is described using Pythagorean tuning there and elsewhere, but Arabic intonation is reasonably variable, and at least one diatonic mode is described using JI (or a 53 EDO approximation thereof.) See https://offtonic.com/theory/book/7-9.html#ajam-family. It seems to me that the natural way to extend this JI aesthetic, to the Kurd tetrachords used to construct Maqam Lami, would be to tune them as 1 : 16/15 : 6/5 : 4/3. I think this results in the same Locrian scale as yours, up to a Keenanisma. Maqam Lami is a relatively recent invention and somewhat rarely used, but it is used, so the way it is handled in Arabic music may give you ideas that match with your existing ideas about how to handle the mode. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 02:25, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
+::::: In other news, I experimented with replacing the meantone scale with a JI-like scale in Locrian Fugue, using 53 EDO and up and down arrow accidentals (and adjusting for modulations/transposition). I also tried strengthening the effect and getting the smaller minor 3rds to approximate 7/6 using the same accidentals and 34 or 22 EDO tuning. The problem with the obvious 1 : 16/15 : 6/5 : 4/3 : 64/45 =? 7/5 : 8/5 : 9/5 : 2 Locrian scale is that there's a prominent leap of a wolf 4th from D to A in the second measure of the subject, which sounds wonky. I also tried correcting it to a perfect fourth (raising the A by a comma when in B Locrian), but the whole thing still seems a bit off balance, so I still prefer 12 EDO for this song. An, interesting experiment, nonetheless. --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 02:25, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
 :: I know this may sound hard to believe, but in all my experimenting with different intervals, I've found that the wrong kind of interval involving small-number-ratios between the wrong two notes actually works against the formation of a sense of tonality.  Conversely, a more tense-sounding interval in the right location- yes, even if the interval in question happens to be [[40/27]]- can actually strengthen your sense of tonality.  Yes, intervals with small-number-ratios are vital to establishing tonality, but because of their power, they have to be well-placed within the tonal system, or otherwise the sense of tonality shifts when you don't want it to. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 04:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)