13/11: Difference between revisions

Wikispaces>Andrew_Heathwaite
**Imported revision 260456498 - Original comment: **
Wikispaces>Andrew_Heathwaite
**Imported revision 260507250 - Original comment: **
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<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
: This revision was by author [[User:Andrew_Heathwaite|Andrew_Heathwaite]] and made on <tt>2011-10-01 09:25:47 UTC</tt>.<br>
: This revision was by author [[User:Andrew_Heathwaite|Andrew_Heathwaite]] and made on <tt>2011-10-01 16:08:03 UTC</tt>.<br>
: The original revision id was <tt>260456498</tt>.<br>
: The original revision id was <tt>260507250</tt>.<br>
: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
<h4>Original Wikitext content:</h4>
<h4>Original Wikitext content:</h4>
<div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html">In [[13-limit]] [[Just Intonation]], 13/11 is the tridecimal minor third (a Neo-Gothic minor third), measuring about 289.2¢. It is the difference between the 11th and 13th harmonics. The 11th harmonic ([[11_8|11/8]], about 551.3¢) and the 13th harmonic ([[13_8|13/8]], about 840.5¢) are both quite xenharmonic and demand new interval categories, while 13/11 can be likened unto some kind of relatively complex minor third. It can even function as such in a 13-limit [[Neo-Gothic]] minor triad of 22:26:33, with a [[3_2|3/2]] perfect fifth between 33 and 22. Compare this to 22:26:32 (11:13:16), which has the much more dissonant [[16_11|16/11]] in place of 3/2. The latter triad sounds more like a very xenharmonic version of a diminished triad, and could not be confused with simpler diminished triads such as 5:6:7.
<div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html">In [[13-limit]] [[Just Intonation]], 13/11 is the tridecimal minor third (a Neo-Gothic minor third), measuring about 289.2¢. It is the difference between the 11th and 13th harmonics. The 11th harmonic ([[11_8|11/8]], about 551.3¢) and the 13th harmonic ([[13_8|13/8]], about 840.5¢) are both quite xenharmonic and demand new interval categories, while 13/11 can be likened unto some kind of relatively complex minor third. It can even function as such in a 13-limit [[Neo-Gothic]] minor triad of 22:26:33, with a [[3_2|3/2]] perfect fifth between 33 and 22. Compare this to 22:26:32 (11:13:16), which has the much more dissonant [[16_11|16/11]] as the outside interval in place of 3/2. The latter triad sounds more like a xenharmonic version of a diminished triad, and could not be confused with simpler diminished triads such as 5:6:7.


13/11 is the classic [[mediant]] between the simpler and more familiar ratios [[6_5|6/5]] and [[7_6|7/6]], and can be given as (6+7)/(5+6). This puts in between the latter ratios, slightly closer to 7/6. It is [[78_77|78/77]] (about 22.) wider than 7/6 and [[66_65|66/65]] (26.4¢) narrower than 6/5. It is also [[352_351]] (about 4.9¢) narrower than [[32_27|32/27]], the minor third in Pythagorean ([[3-limit]]) tuning.
13/11 is the classic [[mediant]] between the simpler and more familiar ratios [[6_5|6/5]] and [[7_6|7/6]], as it can be given as (6+7)/(5+6). This puts in between the latter ratios, slightly closer to 7/6. More complex minor thirds can be generated by taking the mediant between 13/11 and 7/6 (which yields (13+7)/(11+6) = [[20_17|20/17]], the septendecimal subminor third, about 281.4¢) and between 13/11 and 6/5 (which yields (13+6)/(11+5) = [[19_16|19/16]], the overtone minor third of [[19-limit]] JI, about 297.5¢). (See the diagram below.)
 
||~ subminor and minor third ||= **7/6**
**266.9¢** ||=  ||=  ||=  ||=  ||=  ||=  ||=  ||= **6/5**
**315.6¢** ||
||~ interval in between ||=  ||= &lt;= ||=  ||=  ||= [[36_35|36:35]]
48.7¢ ||=  ||=  ||= =&gt; ||=  ||
||~ add mediant (13/11) ||= **7/6**
**266.9¢** ||=  ||=  ||=  ||= **13/11**
**289.2¢** ||=  ||=  ||=  ||= **6/5**
**315.6¢** ||
||~ intervals in between ||=  ||= &lt;= ||= [[78_77|78:77]]
22.3¢ ||= =&gt; ||=  ||= &lt;= ||= [[66_65|66:65]]
26.4¢ ||= =&gt; ||=  ||
||~ add mediants (20/17 and 19/16) ||= **7/6**
**266.9¢** ||=  ||= **20/17**
**281.4¢** ||=  ||= **13/11**
**289.2¢** ||=  ||= **19/16**
**297.5¢** ||=  ||= **6/5**
**315.6¢** ||
||~ intervals in between ||=  ||= &lt;= [[120_119|120:119]] =&gt;
14.5¢ ||=  ||= &lt;= [[221_220|221:220]] =&gt;
7.9¢ ||=  ||= &lt;= [[209_208|209:208]] =&gt;
8.3¢ ||=  ||= &lt;= [[96_95|96:95]] =&gt;
18.1¢ ||=  ||
 
 
13/11 is also [[352_351|352/351]] (about 4.9¢) narrower than [[32_27|32/27]], the minor third in Pythagorean ([[3-limit]]) tuning.


See: [[Gallery of Just Intervals|Gallery of Just Intonation Intervals]], [[gentle chords]], [[List of root-3rd-P5 triads in JI]]
See: [[Gallery of Just Intervals|Gallery of Just Intonation Intervals]], [[gentle chords]], [[List of root-3rd-P5 triads in JI]]
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[[http://dkeenan.com/Music/NobleMediant.txt|The Noble Mediant]] (earliest description of 13:11 as the "Neo-Gothic" minor third)</pre></div>
[[http://dkeenan.com/Music/NobleMediant.txt|The Noble Mediant]] (earliest description of 13:11 as the "Neo-Gothic" minor third)</pre></div>
<h4>Original HTML content:</h4>
<h4>Original HTML content:</h4>
<div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;width:200%;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html">&lt;html&gt;&lt;head&gt;&lt;title&gt;13_11&lt;/title&gt;&lt;/head&gt;&lt;body&gt;In &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/13-limit"&gt;13-limit&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/Just%20Intonation"&gt;Just Intonation&lt;/a&gt;, 13/11 is the tridecimal minor third (a Neo-Gothic minor third), measuring about 289.2¢. It is the difference between the 11th and 13th harmonics. The 11th harmonic (&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/11_8"&gt;11/8&lt;/a&gt;, about 551.3¢) and the 13th harmonic (&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/13_8"&gt;13/8&lt;/a&gt;, about 840.5¢) are both quite xenharmonic and demand new interval categories, while 13/11 can be likened unto some kind of relatively complex minor third. It can even function as such in a 13-limit &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/Neo-Gothic"&gt;Neo-Gothic&lt;/a&gt; minor triad of 22:26:33, with a &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/3_2"&gt;3/2&lt;/a&gt; perfect fifth between 33 and 22. Compare this to 22:26:32 (11:13:16), which has the much more dissonant &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/16_11"&gt;16/11&lt;/a&gt; in place of 3/2. The latter triad sounds more like a very xenharmonic version of a diminished triad, and could not be confused with simpler diminished triads such as 5:6:7.&lt;br /&gt;
<div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;width:200%;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html">&lt;html&gt;&lt;head&gt;&lt;title&gt;13_11&lt;/title&gt;&lt;/head&gt;&lt;body&gt;In &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/13-limit"&gt;13-limit&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/Just%20Intonation"&gt;Just Intonation&lt;/a&gt;, 13/11 is the tridecimal minor third (a Neo-Gothic minor third), measuring about 289.2¢. It is the difference between the 11th and 13th harmonics. The 11th harmonic (&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/11_8"&gt;11/8&lt;/a&gt;, about 551.3¢) and the 13th harmonic (&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/13_8"&gt;13/8&lt;/a&gt;, about 840.5¢) are both quite xenharmonic and demand new interval categories, while 13/11 can be likened unto some kind of relatively complex minor third. It can even function as such in a 13-limit &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/Neo-Gothic"&gt;Neo-Gothic&lt;/a&gt; minor triad of 22:26:33, with a &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/3_2"&gt;3/2&lt;/a&gt; perfect fifth between 33 and 22. Compare this to 22:26:32 (11:13:16), which has the much more dissonant &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/16_11"&gt;16/11&lt;/a&gt; as the outside interval in place of 3/2. The latter triad sounds more like a xenharmonic version of a diminished triad, and could not be confused with simpler diminished triads such as 5:6:7.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13/11 is the classic &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/mediant"&gt;mediant&lt;/a&gt; between the simpler and more familiar ratios &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/6_5"&gt;6/5&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/7_6"&gt;7/6&lt;/a&gt;, as it can be given as (6+7)/(5+6). This puts in between the latter ratios, slightly closer to 7/6. More complex minor thirds can be generated by taking the mediant between 13/11 and 7/6 (which yields (13+7)/(11+6) = &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/20_17"&gt;20/17&lt;/a&gt;, the septendecimal subminor third, about 281.4¢) and between 13/11 and 6/5 (which yields (13+6)/(11+5) = &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/19_16"&gt;19/16&lt;/a&gt;, the overtone minor third of &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/19-limit"&gt;19-limit&lt;/a&gt; JI, about 297.5¢). (See the diagram below.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 
 
&lt;table class="wiki_table"&gt;
    &lt;tr&gt;
        &lt;th&gt;subminor and minor third&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/th&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;7/6&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;266.9¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;6/5&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;315.6¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
    &lt;/tr&gt;
    &lt;tr&gt;
        &lt;th&gt;interval in between&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/th&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&amp;lt;=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/36_35"&gt;36:35&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
48.7¢&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:0:&amp;lt;h1&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h1 id="toc0"&gt;&lt;a name="x&amp;gt; ||"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:0 --&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td&gt;&lt;/h1&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
    &lt;/tr&gt;
    &lt;tr&gt;
        &lt;th&gt;add mediant (13/11)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/th&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;7/6&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;266.9¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;13/11&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;289.2¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;6/5&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;315.6¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
    &lt;/tr&gt;
    &lt;tr&gt;
        &lt;th&gt;intervals in between&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/th&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&amp;lt;=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/78_77"&gt;78:77&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
22.3¢&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:2:&amp;lt;h1&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h1 id="toc1"&gt;&lt;a name="x&amp;gt; ||"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:2 --&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td&gt;&lt;/h1&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&amp;lt;=&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/66_65"&gt;66:65&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
26.4¢&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:4:&amp;lt;h1&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h1 id="toc2"&gt;&lt;a name="x&amp;gt; ||"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:4 --&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td&gt;&lt;/h1&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
    &lt;/tr&gt;
    &lt;tr&gt;
        &lt;th&gt;add mediants (20/17 and 19/16)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/th&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;7/6&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;266.9¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;20/17&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;281.4¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;13/11&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;289.2¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;19/16&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;297.5¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;6/5&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;315.6¢&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
    &lt;/tr&gt;
    &lt;tr&gt;
        &lt;th&gt;intervals in between&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/th&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&amp;lt;= &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/120_119"&gt;120:119&lt;/a&gt; =&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
14.5¢&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&amp;lt;= &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/221_220"&gt;221:220&lt;/a&gt; =&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
7.9¢&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&amp;lt;= &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/209_208"&gt;209:208&lt;/a&gt; =&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
8.3¢&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&amp;lt;= &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/96_95"&gt;96:95&lt;/a&gt; =&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
18.1¢&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
        &lt;td style="text-align: center;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/td&gt;
    &lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;
 
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13/11 is the classic &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/mediant"&gt;mediant&lt;/a&gt; between the simpler and more familiar ratios &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/6_5"&gt;6/5&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/7_6"&gt;7/6&lt;/a&gt;, and can be given as (6+7)/(5+6). This puts in between the latter ratios, slightly closer to 7/6. It is &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/78_77"&gt;78/77&lt;/a&gt; (about 22.3¢) wider than 7/6 and &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/66_65"&gt;66/65&lt;/a&gt; (26.4¢) narrower than 6/5. It is also &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/352_351"&gt;352_351&lt;/a&gt; (about 4.9¢) narrower than &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/32_27"&gt;32/27&lt;/a&gt;, the minor third in Pythagorean (&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/3-limit"&gt;3-limit&lt;/a&gt;) tuning.&lt;br /&gt;
13/11 is also &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/352_351"&gt;352/351&lt;/a&gt; (about 4.9¢) narrower than &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/32_27"&gt;32/27&lt;/a&gt;, the minor third in Pythagorean (&lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/3-limit"&gt;3-limit&lt;/a&gt;) tuning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See: &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/Gallery%20of%20Just%20Intervals"&gt;Gallery of Just Intonation Intervals&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/gentle%20chords"&gt;gentle chords&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/List%20of%20root-3rd-P5%20triads%20in%20JI"&gt;List of root-3rd-P5 triads in JI&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
See: &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/Gallery%20of%20Just%20Intervals"&gt;Gallery of Just Intonation Intervals&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/gentle%20chords"&gt;gentle chords&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a class="wiki_link" href="/List%20of%20root-3rd-P5%20triads%20in%20JI"&gt;List of root-3rd-P5 triads in JI&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="http://dkeenan.com/Music/NobleMediant.txt" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Noble Mediant&lt;/a&gt; (earliest description of 13:11 as the &amp;quot;Neo-Gothic&amp;quot; minor third)&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</pre></div>
&lt;a class="wiki_link_ext" href="http://dkeenan.com/Music/NobleMediant.txt" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Noble Mediant&lt;/a&gt; (earliest description of 13:11 as the &amp;quot;Neo-Gothic&amp;quot; minor third)&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;</pre></div>