34edo: Difference between revisions

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! Cents
! Cents
! Approx. ratios<ref group="note">{{sg|limit=2.3.5.11.13.17.23 [[subgroup]]}}</ref>
! Approx. ratios<ref group="note">{{sg|limit=2.3.5.11.13.17.23 [[subgroup]]}}</ref>
! Ratios of 7 <br />Using the 34 Val
! Ratios of 7<br />Using the 34 Val
! Ratios of 7 <br />Using the 34d Val
! Ratios of 7<br />Using the 34d Val
! colspan="3" | [[Ups and Downs Notation]]
! colspan="3" | [[Ups and Downs Notation]]
! colspan="2" | [[Solfege|Solfeges]]
! colspan="2" | [[Solfege|Solfeges]]
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| [[15/14]], [[21/20]]
| [[15/14]], [[21/20]]
| vA1, ^m2
| vA1, ^m2
| downaug 1sn, <br />upminor 2nd
| downaug 1sn,<br />upminor 2nd
| vD#, ^Eb
| vD#, ^Eb
| fru
| fru
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|  
|  
| ^M2, vm3
| ^M2, vm3
| upmajor 2nd, <br />downminor 3rd
| upmajor 2nd,<br />downminor 3rd
| ^E, vF
| ^E, vF
| ru/no
| ru/no
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|  
|  
| ^M6, vm7
| ^M6, vm7
| upmajor 6th, <br />downminor 7th
| upmajor 6th,<br />downminor 7th
| ^B, vC
| ^B, vC
| lu/tho
| lu/tho
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== Notation ==
== Notation ==
=== Ups and downs notation ===
=== Ups and downs notation ===
34edo can be notated with [[ups and downs]], spoken as up, dup, downsharp, sharp, upsharp etc. and down, dud, upflat etc. Note that dup is equivalent to dudsharp and dud is equivalent to dupflat.
34edo can be notated with [[ups and downs]], spoken as up, dup, downsharp, sharp, upsharp etc. and down, dud, upflat etc. Note that dup is equivalent to dudsharp and dud is equivalent to dupflat.
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Like [[17edo]], 34edo contains good approximations of just intervals involving 3, 11, and 13 – specifically, 13/8, 13/12, 13/11, 13/9, 11/9 and their inversions – while failing to closely approximate ratios of 7 given its step size. 34edo adds ratios of 5 into the mix – including 5/4, 6/5, 9/5, 15/8, 13/10, 15/13, and their inversions – as well as 17 – including 17/16, 18/17, 17/12, 17/11, 17/10, 17/13, 17/15 and their inversions. Since it distinguishes between 9/8 and 10/9 (exaggerating the difference between them, the [[syntonic comma]] of 81/80, from 21.5 cents to 35.3 cents), it is suitable for quasi-5-limit JI but is not a [[meantone]] system. While no number of fifths (3/2) land on major or minor thirds, an even number of major or minor thirds will be the same pitch as a pitch somewhere in the circle of seventeen fifths.
Like [[17edo]], 34edo contains good approximations of just intervals involving 3, 11, and 13 – specifically, 13/8, 13/12, 13/11, 13/9, 11/9 and their inversions – while failing to closely approximate ratios of 7 given its step size. 34edo adds ratios of 5 into the mix – including 5/4, 6/5, 9/5, 15/8, 13/10, 15/13, and their inversions – as well as 17 – including 17/16, 18/17, 17/12, 17/11, 17/10, 17/13, 17/15 and their inversions. Since it distinguishes between 9/8 and 10/9 (exaggerating the difference between them, the [[syntonic comma]] of 81/80, from 21.5 cents to 35.3 cents), it is suitable for quasi-5-limit JI but is not a [[meantone]] system. While no number of fifths (3/2) land on major or minor thirds, an even number of major or minor thirds will be the same pitch as a pitch somewhere in the circle of seventeen fifths.


The sharpening of ~13 cents of 11/8 can fit with the 9/8 and 13/8 which both are about 7 cents sharp. This is the basis of a subtle trick: the guitarist tunes the high 'E' string flat by several cents, enough to be imperceptible in many contexts, but which makes chords/harmonies against those several intervals tuned more justly.
The sharpening of ~13{{c}} of 11/8 can fit with the 9/8 and 13/8 which both are about 7 cents sharp. This is the basis of a subtle trick: the guitarist tunes the high 'E' string flat by several cents, enough to be imperceptible in many contexts, but which makes chords/harmonies against those several intervals tuned more justly.


Likewise the 16-cent flat 27\34 approximate 7/4 can be musically useful especially in [[kleismic]] or [[4L 3s]] contexts (with generator a 9\34 minor third). On the other hand, the slightly worse and sharper 7/4, 28\34, sounds more like the "dominant seventh" found in blues and jazz – which some listeners are accustomed to. ([[68edo]] contains a copy of 34edo and has the intervals 7/4 and 11/8 tuned nearly just.)
Likewise the 16{{c}} flat 27\34 approximate 7/4 can be musically useful especially in [[kleismic]] or [[4L&nbsp;3s]] contexts (with generator a 9\34 minor third). On the other hand, the slightly worse and sharper 7/4, 28\34, sounds more like the "dominant seventh" found in blues and jazz – which some listeners are accustomed to. ([[68edo]] contains a copy of 34edo and has the intervals 7/4 and 11/8 tuned nearly just.)


=== Interval mappings ===
=== Interval mappings ===
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== Tuning by ear ==
== Tuning by ear ==
In principle, one can approximate 34edo by ear using only 5-limit intervals, using the fact that 17edo is very close to a circle of seventeen [[25/24]] chromatic semitones to within 1.5 cents, and using a pure 5/4 which is less than 2 cents off for the second chain. The overall tuning error, assuming everything is tuned perfectly, will be less than 3.5 cents, or a relative error of less than 10%.
In principle, one can approximate 34edo by ear using only 5-limit intervals, using the fact that 17edo is very close to a circle of seventeen [[25/24]] chromatic semitones to within 1.5{{c}}, and using a pure 5/4 which is less than 2{{c}} off for the second chain. The overall tuning error, assuming everything is tuned perfectly, will be less than 3.5{{c}}, or a relative error of less than 10%.


== Approximation to irrational intervals ==
== Approximation to irrational intervals ==
As a Fibonacci number, 34edo contains a fraction of an octave which is a close approximation to the [[logarithmic phi]] – 21 degrees of 34edo, approximately 741.2 cents. Repeated iterations of this interval generates [[moment of symmetry]] scales with near-phi relationships between the step sizes. As a 2.3.5.13 temperament, the 21\34 generator is an approximate 20/13, and the temperament tempers out 512/507 and {{monzo| -6 2 6 0 0 -13 }}. From the tempering of 512/507, two 16/13 neutral thirds are an approximate 3/2, defining an essentially tempered neutral triad with a sharp rather than a flat fifth. (On the other hand, the frequency ratio phi is ~ 833 cents, and the equal divisions of octave approximating this interval closely are 13edo and [[36edo]].)
As a Fibonacci number, 34edo contains a fraction of an octave which is a close approximation to the [[logarithmic phi]] – 21 degrees of 34edo, approximately 741.2{{c}}. Repeated iterations of this interval generates [[moment of symmetry]] scales with near-phi relationships between the step sizes. As a 2.3.5.13 temperament, the 21\34 generator is an approximate 20/13, and the temperament tempers out 512/507 and {{monzo| -6 2 6 0 0 -13 }}. From the tempering of 512/507, two 16/13 neutral thirds are an approximate 3/2, defining an essentially tempered neutral triad with a sharp rather than a flat fifth. (On the other hand, the frequency ratio phi is ~ 833{{c}}, and the equal divisions of octave approximating this interval closely are 13edo and [[36edo]].)


=== Counterpoint ===
=== Counterpoint ===
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! rowspan="2" | [[Comma list]]
! rowspan="2" | [[Comma list]]
! rowspan="2" | [[Mapping]]
! rowspan="2" | [[Mapping]]
! rowspan="2" | Optimal <br />8ve stretch (¢)
! rowspan="2" | Optimal<br />8ve stretch (¢)
! colspan="2" | Tuning error
! colspan="2" | Tuning error
|-
|-
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|}
|}


In the 5-limit, 34edo [[support]]s [[hanson]], [[srutal]], [[tetracot]], [[würschmidt]] and [[vishnu]] temperaments. It does less well in the [[7-limit]], with two mappings possible for [[7/4]]: a flat one from the [[patent val]], and a sharp one from the 34d val. By way of the patent val 34 supports [[keemun]] temperament, and 34d is an excellent alternative to [[22edo]] for 7-limit [[pajara]] temperament. In the [[11-limit]], 34de supports 11-limit [[pajaric]], and in fact is quite close to the [[POTE tuning]]; it adds [[4375/4374]] to the commas of 11-limit pajaric. On the other hand, the 34d val supports pajara, vishnu and würschmidt, adding 4375/4374 to the commas of pajara. Among subgroup temperaments, the patent val supports [[semaphore]] on the 2.3.7 subgroup.  
In the 5-limit, 34edo [[support]]s [[hanson]], [[srutal]], [[tetracot]], [[würschmidt]], and [[vishnu]] temperaments. It does less well in the [[7-limit]], with two mappings possible for [[7/4]]: a flat one from the [[patent val]], and a sharp one from the 34d val. By way of the patent val 34 supports [[keemun]] temperament, and 34d is an excellent alternative to [[22edo]] for 7-limit [[pajara]] temperament. In the [[11-limit]], 34de supports 11-limit [[pajaric]], and in fact is quite close to the [[POTE tuning]]; it adds [[4375/4374]] to the commas of 11-limit pajaric. On the other hand, the 34d val supports pajara, vishnu and würschmidt, adding 4375/4374 to the commas of pajara. Among subgroup temperaments, the patent val supports [[semaphore]] on the 2.3.7 subgroup.  


=== Rank-2 temperaments ===
=== Rank-2 temperaments ===
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{| class="wikitable"
{| class="wikitable"
|+ Rank-2 temperaments by period and generator
|+ style="font-size: 105%;" | Rank-2 temperaments by period and generator
|-
|-
! Periods <br />per 8ve
! Periods<br />per 8ve
! Generator
! Generator
! Cents
! Cents
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| 3\34
| 3\34
| 105.88
| 105.88
| [[11L 1s]] <br />[[11L 12s]]
| [[11L&nbsp;1s]]<br />[[11L&nbsp;12s]]
|  
|  
|-
|-
| 5\34
| 5\34
| 176.471
| 176.471
| [[6L 1s]] <br />[[7L 6s]] <br />[[7L 13s]] <br />7L 20s
| [[6L&nbsp;1s]]<br />[[7L&nbsp;6s]]<br />[[7L&nbsp;13s]]<br&nbsp;/>[[7L&nbsp;20s]]
| [[Tetracot]], [[bunya]] (34d), [[modus]] (34d), [[monkey]] (34), [[wollemia]] (34)
| [[Tetracot]], [[bunya]] (34d), [[modus]] (34d), [[monkey]] (34), [[wollemia]] (34)
|-
|-
| 7\34
| 7\34
| 247.059
| 247.059
| [[5L 4s]] <br />[[5L 9s]] <br />[[5L 14s]] <br />[[5L 19s]] <br />Pathological 5L 24s
| [[5L&nbsp;4s]]<br />[[5L&nbsp;9s]]<br />[[5L&nbsp;14s]]<br />[[5L&nbsp;19s]]<br />Pathological 5L&nbsp;24s
| [[Immunity]] (34), [[immunized]] (34d)
| [[Immunity]] (34), [[immunized]] (34d)
|-
|-
| 9\34
| 9\34
| 317.647
| 317.647
| [[4L 3s]] <br />[[4L 7s]] <br />[[4L 11s]] <br />[[15L 4s]]
| [[4L&nbsp;3s]]<br />[[4L&nbsp;7s]]<br />[[4L&nbsp;11s]]<br />[[15L&nbsp;4s]]
| [[Hanson]], [[keemun]] (34), [[catalan]] (34d), [[catakleismic]] (34d)
| [[Hanson]], [[keemun]] (34), [[catalan]] (34d), [[catakleismic]] (34d)
|-
|-
| 11\34
| 11\34
| 388.235
| 388.235
| [[3L 7s]] <br />[[3L 10s]] <br />[[3L 13s]] <br />[[3L 16s]] <br />[[3L 19s]] <br />[[3L 22s]] <br />Pathological [[3L 25s]] <br />Pathological 3L 28s
| [[3L&nbsp;7s]]<br />[[3L&nbsp;10s]]<br />[[3L&nbsp;13s]]<br />[[3L&nbsp;16s]]<br />[[3L&nbsp;19s]]<br />[[3L&nbsp;22s]]<br />Pathological [[3L&nbsp;25s]]<br />Pathological 3L&nbsp;28s
| [[Würschmidt]] (34d), [[worschmidt]] (34)
| [[Würschmidt]] (34d), [[worschmidt]] (34)
|-
|-
| 13\34
| 13\34
| 458.824
| 458.824
| [[3L 2s]] <br />[[5L 3s]] <br />[[8L 5s]] <br />[[13L 8s]]
| [[3L&nbsp;2s]]<br />[[5L&nbsp;3s]]<br />[[8L&nbsp;5s]]<br />[[13L&nbsp;8s]]
| [[Petrtri]]
| [[Petrtri]]
|-
|-
| 15\34
| 15\34
| 529.412
| 529.412
| [[2L 3s]] <br />[[2L 5s]] <br />[[7L 2s]] <br />[[9L 7s]] <br />9L 16s
| [[2L&nbsp;3s]]<br />[[2L&nbsp;5s]]<br />[[7L&nbsp;2s]]<br />[[9L&nbsp;7s]]<br />9L&nbsp;16s
| [[Mabila]]
| [[Mabila]]
|-
|-
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| 2\34
| 2\34
| 70.588
| 70.588
| [[16L 2s]]
| [[16L&nbsp;2s]]
| [[Vishnu]]
| [[Vishnu]]
|-
|-
| 3\34
| 3\34
| 105.882
| 105.882
| [[2L 6s]] <br />[[2L 8s]] <br />[[10L 2s]] <br />[[12L 10s]]
| [[2L&nbsp;6s]]<br />[[2L&nbsp;8s]]<br />[[10L&nbsp;2s]]<br />[[12L&nbsp;10s]]
| [[Srutal]] (34d), [[pajara]] (34d), [[diaschismic]] (34)
| [[Srutal]] (34d), [[pajara]] (34d), [[diaschismic]] (34)
|-
|-
| 4\34
| 4\34
| 141.176
| 141.176
| [[2L 6s]] <br />[[8L 2s]] <br />[[8L 10s]] <br />8L 16s
| [[2L&nbsp;6s]]<br />[[8L&nbsp;2s]]<br />[[8L&nbsp;10s]]<br />8L&nbsp;16s
| [[Fifive]], [[crepuscular]] (34d), [[fifives]] (34)
| [[Fifive]], [[crepuscular]] (34d), [[fifives]] (34)
|-
|-
| 5\34
| 5\34
| 176.471
| 176.471
| [[6L 2s]] <br />[[6L 8s]] <br />[[14L 6s]]
| [[6L&nbsp;2s]]<br />[[6L&nbsp;8s]]<br />[[14L&nbsp;6s]]
| [[Stratosphere]]
| [[Stratosphere]]
|-
|-
| 6\34
| 6\34
| 211.765
| 211.765
| [[4L 2s]] <br />[[6L 4s]] <br />[[6L 10s]] <br />[[6L 16s]] <br />Pathological 6L 22s
| [[4L&nbsp;2s]]<br />[[6L&nbsp;4s]]<br />[[6L&nbsp;10s]]<br />[[6L&nbsp;16s]]<br />Pathological 6L&nbsp;22s
| [[Antikythera]]
| [[Antikythera]]
|-
|-
| 7\34
| 7\34
| 247.059
| 247.059
| [[4L 2s]] <br />[[4L 6s]] <br />[[10L 4s]] <br />[[10L 14s]]
| [[4L&nbsp;2s]]<br />[[4L&nbsp;6s]]<br />[[10L&nbsp;4s]]<br />[[10L&nbsp;14s]]
| [[Tobago]]
| [[Tobago]]
|-
|-
| 8\34
| 8\34
| 282.353
| 282.353
| [[2L 2s]] <br />[[4L 2s]] <br />[[4L 6s]] <br />[[4L 10s]] <br />[[4L 14s]] <br />4L 18s <br />4L 22s <br />Pathological 4L 26s
| [[2L&nbsp;2s]]<br />[[4L&nbsp;2s]]<br />[[4L&nbsp;6s]]<br />[[4L&nbsp;10s]]<br />[[4L&nbsp;14s]]<br />4L&nbsp;18s<br />4L&nbsp;22s<br />Pathological 4L&nbsp;26s
| [[Bikleismic]]
| [[Bikleismic]]
|}
|}
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{| class="commatable wikitable center-all left-3 right-4 left-6"
{| class="commatable wikitable center-all left-3 right-4 left-6"
|-
|-
! [[Harmonic limit|Prime <br />limit]]
! [[Harmonic limit|Prime<br />limit]]
! [[Ratio]]<ref group="note">{{rd}}</ref>
! [[Ratio]]<ref group="note">{{rd}}</ref>
! [[Monzo]]
! [[Monzo]]