34edo: Difference between revisions
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! Cents | ! Cents | ||
! Approx. ratios<ref group="note">{{sg|limit=2.3.5.11.13.17.23 [[subgroup]]}}</ref> | ! Approx. ratios<ref group="note">{{sg|limit=2.3.5.11.13.17.23 [[subgroup]]}}</ref> | ||
! Ratios of 7 <br />Using the 34 Val | ! Ratios of 7<br />Using the 34 Val | ||
! Ratios of 7 <br />Using the 34d Val | ! Ratios of 7<br />Using the 34d Val | ||
! colspan="3" | [[Ups and Downs Notation]] | ! colspan="3" | [[Ups and Downs Notation]] | ||
! colspan="2" | [[Solfege|Solfeges]] | ! colspan="2" | [[Solfege|Solfeges]] | ||
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| [[15/14]], [[21/20]] | | [[15/14]], [[21/20]] | ||
| vA1, ^m2 | | vA1, ^m2 | ||
| downaug 1sn, <br />upminor 2nd | | downaug 1sn,<br />upminor 2nd | ||
| vD#, ^Eb | | vD#, ^Eb | ||
| fru | | fru | ||
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| | | | ||
| ^M2, vm3 | | ^M2, vm3 | ||
| upmajor 2nd, <br />downminor 3rd | | upmajor 2nd,<br />downminor 3rd | ||
| ^E, vF | | ^E, vF | ||
| ru/no | | ru/no | ||
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| | | | ||
| ^M6, vm7 | | ^M6, vm7 | ||
| upmajor 6th, <br />downminor 7th | | upmajor 6th,<br />downminor 7th | ||
| ^B, vC | | ^B, vC | ||
| lu/tho | | lu/tho | ||
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== Notation == | == Notation == | ||
=== Ups and downs notation === | === Ups and downs notation === | ||
34edo can be notated with [[ups and downs]], spoken as up, dup, downsharp, sharp, upsharp etc. and down, dud, upflat etc. Note that dup is equivalent to dudsharp and dud is equivalent to dupflat. | 34edo can be notated with [[ups and downs]], spoken as up, dup, downsharp, sharp, upsharp etc. and down, dud, upflat etc. Note that dup is equivalent to dudsharp and dud is equivalent to dupflat. | ||
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Like [[17edo]], 34edo contains good approximations of just intervals involving 3, 11, and 13 – specifically, 13/8, 13/12, 13/11, 13/9, 11/9 and their inversions – while failing to closely approximate ratios of 7 given its step size. 34edo adds ratios of 5 into the mix – including 5/4, 6/5, 9/5, 15/8, 13/10, 15/13, and their inversions – as well as 17 – including 17/16, 18/17, 17/12, 17/11, 17/10, 17/13, 17/15 and their inversions. Since it distinguishes between 9/8 and 10/9 (exaggerating the difference between them, the [[syntonic comma]] of 81/80, from 21.5 cents to 35.3 cents), it is suitable for quasi-5-limit JI but is not a [[meantone]] system. While no number of fifths (3/2) land on major or minor thirds, an even number of major or minor thirds will be the same pitch as a pitch somewhere in the circle of seventeen fifths. | Like [[17edo]], 34edo contains good approximations of just intervals involving 3, 11, and 13 – specifically, 13/8, 13/12, 13/11, 13/9, 11/9 and their inversions – while failing to closely approximate ratios of 7 given its step size. 34edo adds ratios of 5 into the mix – including 5/4, 6/5, 9/5, 15/8, 13/10, 15/13, and their inversions – as well as 17 – including 17/16, 18/17, 17/12, 17/11, 17/10, 17/13, 17/15 and their inversions. Since it distinguishes between 9/8 and 10/9 (exaggerating the difference between them, the [[syntonic comma]] of 81/80, from 21.5 cents to 35.3 cents), it is suitable for quasi-5-limit JI but is not a [[meantone]] system. While no number of fifths (3/2) land on major or minor thirds, an even number of major or minor thirds will be the same pitch as a pitch somewhere in the circle of seventeen fifths. | ||
The sharpening of ~13 | The sharpening of ~13{{c}} of 11/8 can fit with the 9/8 and 13/8 which both are about 7 cents sharp. This is the basis of a subtle trick: the guitarist tunes the high 'E' string flat by several cents, enough to be imperceptible in many contexts, but which makes chords/harmonies against those several intervals tuned more justly. | ||
Likewise the 16 | Likewise the 16{{c}} flat 27\34 approximate 7/4 can be musically useful especially in [[kleismic]] or [[4L 3s]] contexts (with generator a 9\34 minor third). On the other hand, the slightly worse and sharper 7/4, 28\34, sounds more like the "dominant seventh" found in blues and jazz – which some listeners are accustomed to. ([[68edo]] contains a copy of 34edo and has the intervals 7/4 and 11/8 tuned nearly just.) | ||
=== Interval mappings === | === Interval mappings === | ||
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== Tuning by ear == | == Tuning by ear == | ||
In principle, one can approximate 34edo by ear using only 5-limit intervals, using the fact that 17edo is very close to a circle of seventeen [[25/24]] chromatic semitones to within 1.5 | In principle, one can approximate 34edo by ear using only 5-limit intervals, using the fact that 17edo is very close to a circle of seventeen [[25/24]] chromatic semitones to within 1.5{{c}}, and using a pure 5/4 which is less than 2{{c}} off for the second chain. The overall tuning error, assuming everything is tuned perfectly, will be less than 3.5{{c}}, or a relative error of less than 10%. | ||
== Approximation to irrational intervals == | == Approximation to irrational intervals == | ||
As a Fibonacci number, 34edo contains a fraction of an octave which is a close approximation to the [[logarithmic phi]] – 21 degrees of 34edo, approximately 741.2 | As a Fibonacci number, 34edo contains a fraction of an octave which is a close approximation to the [[logarithmic phi]] – 21 degrees of 34edo, approximately 741.2{{c}}. Repeated iterations of this interval generates [[moment of symmetry]] scales with near-phi relationships between the step sizes. As a 2.3.5.13 temperament, the 21\34 generator is an approximate 20/13, and the temperament tempers out 512/507 and {{monzo| -6 2 6 0 0 -13 }}. From the tempering of 512/507, two 16/13 neutral thirds are an approximate 3/2, defining an essentially tempered neutral triad with a sharp rather than a flat fifth. (On the other hand, the frequency ratio phi is ~ 833{{c}}, and the equal divisions of octave approximating this interval closely are 13edo and [[36edo]].) | ||
=== Counterpoint === | === Counterpoint === | ||
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! rowspan="2" | [[Comma list]] | ! rowspan="2" | [[Comma list]] | ||
! rowspan="2" | [[Mapping]] | ! rowspan="2" | [[Mapping]] | ||
! rowspan="2" | Optimal <br />8ve stretch (¢) | ! rowspan="2" | Optimal<br />8ve stretch (¢) | ||
! colspan="2" | Tuning error | ! colspan="2" | Tuning error | ||
|- | |- | ||
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|} | |} | ||
In the 5-limit, 34edo [[support]]s [[hanson]], [[srutal]], [[tetracot]], [[würschmidt]] and [[vishnu]] temperaments. It does less well in the [[7-limit]], with two mappings possible for [[7/4]]: a flat one from the [[patent val]], and a sharp one from the 34d val. By way of the patent val 34 supports [[keemun]] temperament, and 34d is an excellent alternative to [[22edo]] for 7-limit [[pajara]] temperament. In the [[11-limit]], 34de supports 11-limit [[pajaric]], and in fact is quite close to the [[POTE tuning]]; it adds [[4375/4374]] to the commas of 11-limit pajaric. On the other hand, the 34d val supports pajara, vishnu and würschmidt, adding 4375/4374 to the commas of pajara. Among subgroup temperaments, the patent val supports [[semaphore]] on the 2.3.7 subgroup. | In the 5-limit, 34edo [[support]]s [[hanson]], [[srutal]], [[tetracot]], [[würschmidt]], and [[vishnu]] temperaments. It does less well in the [[7-limit]], with two mappings possible for [[7/4]]: a flat one from the [[patent val]], and a sharp one from the 34d val. By way of the patent val 34 supports [[keemun]] temperament, and 34d is an excellent alternative to [[22edo]] for 7-limit [[pajara]] temperament. In the [[11-limit]], 34de supports 11-limit [[pajaric]], and in fact is quite close to the [[POTE tuning]]; it adds [[4375/4374]] to the commas of 11-limit pajaric. On the other hand, the 34d val supports pajara, vishnu and würschmidt, adding 4375/4374 to the commas of pajara. Among subgroup temperaments, the patent val supports [[semaphore]] on the 2.3.7 subgroup. | ||
=== Rank-2 temperaments === | === Rank-2 temperaments === | ||
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{| class="wikitable" | {| class="wikitable" | ||
|+ Rank-2 temperaments by period and generator | |+ style="font-size: 105%;" | Rank-2 temperaments by period and generator | ||
|- | |- | ||
! Periods <br />per 8ve | ! Periods<br />per 8ve | ||
! Generator | ! Generator | ||
! Cents | ! Cents | ||
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| 3\34 | | 3\34 | ||
| 105.88 | | 105.88 | ||
| [[11L 1s]] <br />[[11L 12s]] | | [[11L 1s]]<br />[[11L 12s]] | ||
| | | | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 5\34 | | 5\34 | ||
| 176.471 | | 176.471 | ||
| [[6L 1s]] <br />[[7L 6s]] <br />[[7L 13s]] <br />7L 20s | | [[6L 1s]]<br />[[7L 6s]]<br />[[7L 13s]]<br />[[7L 20s]] | ||
| [[Tetracot]], [[bunya]] (34d), [[modus]] (34d), [[monkey]] (34), [[wollemia]] (34) | | [[Tetracot]], [[bunya]] (34d), [[modus]] (34d), [[monkey]] (34), [[wollemia]] (34) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 7\34 | | 7\34 | ||
| 247.059 | | 247.059 | ||
| [[5L 4s]] <br />[[5L 9s]] <br />[[5L 14s]] <br />[[5L 19s]] <br />Pathological 5L 24s | | [[5L 4s]]<br />[[5L 9s]]<br />[[5L 14s]]<br />[[5L 19s]]<br />Pathological 5L 24s | ||
| [[Immunity]] (34), [[immunized]] (34d) | | [[Immunity]] (34), [[immunized]] (34d) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 9\34 | | 9\34 | ||
| 317.647 | | 317.647 | ||
| [[4L 3s]] <br />[[4L 7s]] <br />[[4L 11s]] <br />[[15L 4s]] | | [[4L 3s]]<br />[[4L 7s]]<br />[[4L 11s]]<br />[[15L 4s]] | ||
| [[Hanson]], [[keemun]] (34), [[catalan]] (34d), [[catakleismic]] (34d) | | [[Hanson]], [[keemun]] (34), [[catalan]] (34d), [[catakleismic]] (34d) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 11\34 | | 11\34 | ||
| 388.235 | | 388.235 | ||
| [[3L 7s]] <br />[[3L 10s]] <br />[[3L 13s]] <br />[[3L 16s]] <br />[[3L 19s]] <br />[[3L 22s]] <br />Pathological [[3L 25s]] <br />Pathological 3L 28s | | [[3L 7s]]<br />[[3L 10s]]<br />[[3L 13s]]<br />[[3L 16s]]<br />[[3L 19s]]<br />[[3L 22s]]<br />Pathological [[3L 25s]]<br />Pathological 3L 28s | ||
| [[Würschmidt]] (34d), [[worschmidt]] (34) | | [[Würschmidt]] (34d), [[worschmidt]] (34) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 13\34 | | 13\34 | ||
| 458.824 | | 458.824 | ||
| [[3L 2s]] <br />[[5L 3s]] <br />[[8L 5s]] <br />[[13L 8s]] | | [[3L 2s]]<br />[[5L 3s]]<br />[[8L 5s]]<br />[[13L 8s]] | ||
| [[Petrtri]] | | [[Petrtri]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 15\34 | | 15\34 | ||
| 529.412 | | 529.412 | ||
| [[2L 3s]] <br />[[2L 5s]] <br />[[7L 2s]] <br />[[9L 7s]] <br />9L 16s | | [[2L 3s]]<br />[[2L 5s]]<br />[[7L 2s]]<br />[[9L 7s]]<br />9L 16s | ||
| [[Mabila]] | | [[Mabila]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
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| 2\34 | | 2\34 | ||
| 70.588 | | 70.588 | ||
| [[16L 2s]] | | [[16L 2s]] | ||
| [[Vishnu]] | | [[Vishnu]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 3\34 | | 3\34 | ||
| 105.882 | | 105.882 | ||
| [[2L 6s]] <br />[[2L 8s]] <br />[[10L 2s]] <br />[[12L 10s]] | | [[2L 6s]]<br />[[2L 8s]]<br />[[10L 2s]]<br />[[12L 10s]] | ||
| [[Srutal]] (34d), [[pajara]] (34d), [[diaschismic]] (34) | | [[Srutal]] (34d), [[pajara]] (34d), [[diaschismic]] (34) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 4\34 | | 4\34 | ||
| 141.176 | | 141.176 | ||
| [[2L 6s]] <br />[[8L 2s]] <br />[[8L 10s]] <br />8L 16s | | [[2L 6s]]<br />[[8L 2s]]<br />[[8L 10s]]<br />8L 16s | ||
| [[Fifive]], [[crepuscular]] (34d), [[fifives]] (34) | | [[Fifive]], [[crepuscular]] (34d), [[fifives]] (34) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 5\34 | | 5\34 | ||
| 176.471 | | 176.471 | ||
| [[6L 2s]] <br />[[6L 8s]] <br />[[14L 6s]] | | [[6L 2s]]<br />[[6L 8s]]<br />[[14L 6s]] | ||
| [[Stratosphere]] | | [[Stratosphere]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 6\34 | | 6\34 | ||
| 211.765 | | 211.765 | ||
| [[4L 2s]] <br />[[6L 4s]] <br />[[6L 10s]] <br />[[6L 16s]] <br />Pathological 6L 22s | | [[4L 2s]]<br />[[6L 4s]]<br />[[6L 10s]]<br />[[6L 16s]]<br />Pathological 6L 22s | ||
| [[Antikythera]] | | [[Antikythera]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 7\34 | | 7\34 | ||
| 247.059 | | 247.059 | ||
| [[4L 2s]] <br />[[4L 6s]] <br />[[10L 4s]] <br />[[10L 14s]] | | [[4L 2s]]<br />[[4L 6s]]<br />[[10L 4s]]<br />[[10L 14s]] | ||
| [[Tobago]] | | [[Tobago]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 8\34 | | 8\34 | ||
| 282.353 | | 282.353 | ||
| [[2L 2s]] <br />[[4L 2s]] <br />[[4L 6s]] <br />[[4L 10s]] <br />[[4L 14s]] <br />4L 18s <br />4L 22s <br />Pathological 4L 26s | | [[2L 2s]]<br />[[4L 2s]]<br />[[4L 6s]]<br />[[4L 10s]]<br />[[4L 14s]]<br />4L 18s<br />4L 22s<br />Pathological 4L 26s | ||
| [[Bikleismic]] | | [[Bikleismic]] | ||
|} | |} | ||
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{| class="commatable wikitable center-all left-3 right-4 left-6" | {| class="commatable wikitable center-all left-3 right-4 left-6" | ||
|- | |- | ||
! [[Harmonic limit|Prime <br />limit]] | ! [[Harmonic limit|Prime<br />limit]] | ||
! [[Ratio]]<ref group="note">{{rd}}</ref> | ! [[Ratio]]<ref group="note">{{rd}}</ref> | ||
! [[Monzo]] | ! [[Monzo]] |