Talk:Patent val: Difference between revisions

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::::::::: Of course most of the temperament data in the Xen Wiki was generated by Gene, so it is not surprising if it contained "map" as an abbreviation of "mapping". So I assume, when you say that switching to ''mapping'' from ''map'' is a relatively recent change, you are referring to someone having expanded these occurrences of "map" to "mapping". That would be a good thing. It would make them consistent with the output from Graham Breed's temperament finder, and it would open the way to defining "map" as synonymous with "val".

::::::::: In the Xen Wiki and Graham Breed's temperament finder and the tuning archives, the term "map" (and not "mapping") already consistently refers to an individual row of the form ⟨...]. This is in the case of a "tuning map", which maps from generators to cents. This is a map in "tuning space". By analogy, a val is therefore a map in "temperament space", and so it would be perfectly consistent with existing terminology, to refer to a val as a "temperament map" as opposed to a temperament mapping. We are merely proposing that an unqualified "map" should be assumed to be a temperament map, i.e. a val, not a tuning map. Or at least that when it is clear from the context that it is a temperament map, the qualifier "temperament" can be dropped. --[[User:Dave Keenan|Dave Keenan]] ([[User talk:Dave Keenan|talk]]) 16:29, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

::::::::: In the Xen Wiki and Graham Breed's temperament finder and the tuning archives, [there is a case in which*] the term "map" (and not "mapping") already consistently refers to an individual row of the form ⟨...]. This is in the case of a "tuning map", which maps from generators to cents. This is a map in "tuning space". By analogy, a val is therefore a map in "temperament space", and so it would be perfectly consistent with existing terminology, to refer to a val as a "temperament map" as opposed to a temperament mapping. We are merely proposing that an unqualified "map" should be assumed to be a temperament map, i.e. a val, not a tuning map. Or at least that when it is clear from the context that it is a temperament map, the qualifier "temperament" can be dropped. [*clarification added 30 Dec 2021] --[[User:Dave Keenan|Dave Keenan]] ([[User talk:Dave Keenan|talk]]) 16:29, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::: I guess I agree that ''map'' is a possible replacement for ''val'', but my point has always been practical. What's the plan? How do you make all the RTT users forget about ''val''? How about all these pages? The letter ''V'' in the formulae? [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 00:24, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

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::: I'm trying to go with "Douglas". Thanks for asking. Dave writes little on the wiki himself. Here's my work: https://en.xen.wiki/w/Douglas_Blumeyer#Some_of_his_work_here_on_the_wiki --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 23:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

=== Concern about the confusingness of nearest edomapping ===

It strikes me that the "nearest edomapping" would be the [[direct approximation]], so that the name is exactly a wrong self-description. Contrast with something like "nearest edomapping val" where the presence of the word "val" makes the meaning clearer. I really do not think it is a good idea to have this as a synonym for "patent val"; I don't think I've ever even seen it used. If it stays on the page at all, the name needs to be changed to something less confusing. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 21:56, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 97: / Line 97: @@
 ::::::::: Of course most of the temperament data in the Xen Wiki was generated by Gene, so it is not surprising if it contained "map" as an abbreviation of "mapping". So I assume, when you say that switching to ''mapping'' from ''map'' is a relatively recent change, you are referring to someone having expanded these occurrences of "map" to "mapping". That would be a good thing. It would make them consistent with the output from Graham Breed's temperament finder, and it would open the way to defining "map" as synonymous with "val".
-::::::::: In the Xen Wiki and Graham Breed's temperament finder and the tuning archives, the term "map" (and not "mapping") already consistently refers to an individual row of the form ⟨...]. This is in the case of a "tuning map", which maps from generators to cents. This is a map in "tuning space". By analogy, a val is therefore a map in "temperament space", and so it would be perfectly consistent with existing terminology, to refer to a val as a "temperament map" as opposed to a temperament mapping. We are merely proposing that an unqualified "map" should be assumed to be a temperament map, i.e. a val, not a tuning map. Or at least that when it is clear from the context that it is a temperament map, the qualifier "temperament" can be dropped. --[[User:Dave Keenan|Dave Keenan]] ([[User talk:Dave Keenan|talk]]) 16:29, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
+::::::::: In the Xen Wiki and Graham Breed's temperament finder and the tuning archives, [there is a case in which*] the term "map" (and not "mapping") already consistently refers to an individual row of the form ⟨...]. This is in the case of a "tuning map", which maps from generators to cents. This is a map in "tuning space". By analogy, a val is therefore a map in "temperament space", and so it would be perfectly consistent with existing terminology, to refer to a val as a "temperament map" as opposed to a temperament mapping. We are merely proposing that an unqualified "map" should be assumed to be a temperament map, i.e. a val, not a tuning map. Or at least that when it is clear from the context that it is a temperament map, the qualifier "temperament" can be dropped. [*clarification added 30 Dec 2021] --[[User:Dave Keenan|Dave Keenan]] ([[User talk:Dave Keenan|talk]]) 16:29, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
 :::::::::: I guess I agree that ''map'' is a possible replacement for ''val'', but my point has always been practical. What's the plan? How do you make all the RTT users forget about ''val''? How about all these pages? The letter ''V'' in the formulae? [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 00:24, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
@@ Line 242: / Line 242: @@
 ::: I'm trying to go with "Douglas". Thanks for asking. Dave writes little on the wiki himself. Here's my work: https://en.xen.wiki/w/Douglas_Blumeyer#Some_of_his_work_here_on_the_wiki --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 23:38, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
+=== Concern about the confusingness of nearest edomapping ===
+It strikes me that the "nearest edomapping" would be the [[direct approximation]], so that the name is exactly a wrong self-description. Contrast with something like "nearest edomapping val" where the presence of the word "val" makes the meaning clearer. I really do not think it is a good idea to have this as a synonym for "patent val"; I don't think I've ever even seen it used. If it stays on the page at all, the name needs to be changed to something less confusing. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 21:56, 31 January 2025 (UTC)