Xenwolf
Joined 17 September 2018
Indented signature |
ArrowHead294 (talk | contribs) |
||
| (192 intermediate revisions by 13 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{User:Xenwolf/New-topic reminder}} | |||
== MonoBook issue == | == MonoBook issue == | ||
| Line 41: | Line 42: | ||
== Diatonic Functions of Xenharmonic Intervals == | == Diatonic Functions of Xenharmonic Intervals == | ||
Okay, so one thing I'm interested in is covering the diatonic functions of notes at various intervals' distance away from the tonic- you know, for microtonal composers who still want to work with tonality- I honestly think pages like 3/2 and 4/3 could benefit from having information on things like this. On another note, do we have information on the thirty-five 12edo proper modes? Pages documenting these modes would serve to gather variations and alternative tunings for these scales and modes into one place. For the record, I know that in my own microtonal composing, I tend not to go very far from my 12edo roots for reasons detaild in [[A recovering microtonalist's critical reaction to Why Microtonality]], yet, I also can't help but agree with Mike S in his comments in [[Microtonalists critical reaction to a recovering | Okay, so one thing I'm interested in is covering the diatonic functions of notes at various intervals' distance away from the tonic- you know, for microtonal composers who still want to work with tonality- I honestly think pages like 3/2 and 4/3 could benefit from having information on things like this. On another note, do we have information on the thirty-five 12edo proper modes? Pages documenting these modes would serve to gather variations and alternative tunings for these scales and modes into one place. For the record, I know that in my own microtonal composing, I tend not to go very far from my 12edo roots for reasons detaild in [[A recovering microtonalist's critical reaction to Why Microtonality]], yet, I also can't help but agree with Mike S in his comments in [[Microtonalists' critical reaction to a recovering microtonalist's critical reaction to Why Microtonality?]] on 7-limit and 11-limit being important- in fact, I would add the 13-limit to his list. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 16:11, 5 September 2020 (UTC) | ||
: First, I guess that I'm not the right person to ask about ''diatonic functions of notes''. Second, as far as I know there are no pages about the 35 [[12edo]] modes, but it could as well be that I only missed it/them. Third, I didn't compose anything yet. Currently I mostly help others to put information into the wiki ... I really like listening xen music of any kind, I also like "meditating" on intervals, that's why I uploaded several sound examples, especially those in prime limits above 5. But I also know that timbre is very important. BTW: today I discovered that [[11/7]] has a very convincing sound. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 19:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC) | : First, I guess that I'm not the right person to ask about ''diatonic functions of notes''. Second, as far as I know there are no pages about the 35 [[12edo]] modes, but it could as well be that I only missed it/them. Third, I didn't compose anything yet. Currently I mostly help others to put information into the wiki ... I really like listening xen music of any kind, I also like "meditating" on intervals, that's why I uploaded several sound examples, especially those in prime limits above 5. But I also know that timbre is very important. BTW: today I discovered that [[11/7]] has a very convincing sound. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 19:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC) | ||
| Line 503: | Line 504: | ||
: Yes, there is a user named [[User:Contribution|Contribution]]. It may be confusing sometimes but I think there is nothing to fix. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:53, 27 November 2020 (UTC) | : Yes, there is a user named [[User:Contribution|Contribution]]. It may be confusing sometimes but I think there is nothing to fix. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:53, 27 November 2020 (UTC) | ||
:: I don't know who did it, but I can see that the problem was just fixed completely, maybe even better than I expected. Whoever took care of that matter, I would like to express my full satisfaction. Thank you, people! — [[User:SAKryukov|SA]], ''Wednesday 2020 December 9, 22:00 UTC'' | |||
::: Could it really be that you did no browser refresh for such a long time? The issue was already found and fixed on 30 November 2020. There was a configuration issue that caused the CSS being expected in the wrong path. Aura told me around the same day that the problems he reported were gone so I expected you would also observe it. Unfortunately no measures were (or could be?) taken to force a cache invalidation. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 22:55, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== To delete == | == To delete == | ||
| Line 555: | Line 548: | ||
:::::: Oh, and thanks for the info about how to alter the summaries of files. I needed that. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:38, 3 December 2020 (UTC) | :::::: Oh, and thanks for the info about how to alter the summaries of files. I needed that. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:38, 3 December 2020 (UTC) | ||
== User Categories == | == User Categories == | ||
| Line 583: | Line 568: | ||
:::::: Thanks. For the record, it seems that [[:Category:User on facebook]] needs to be moved to [[:Category:User on Facebook]], though I guess we should make double sure before making this move. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 17:44, 8 December 2020 (UTC) | :::::: Thanks. For the record, it seems that [[:Category:User on facebook]] needs to be moved to [[:Category:User on Facebook]], though I guess we should make double sure before making this move. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 17:44, 8 December 2020 (UTC) | ||
== Posting on the same page in parallel == | |||
I noticed that when I post on some page, and another participant is doing the same on the same page in parallel, sometimes I lose my new fragment of text. I assumed that I simply don't follow some correct order of operation. Any advice? — thank you! — [[User:SAKryukov|SA]], ''Wednesday 2020 December 9, 05:38 UTC'' | |||
: Well, edit conflicts sometimes happen, especially when the other person doesn't know about what you're doing. It's not your fault, at least to my knowledge. Xenwolf may know more, but in some respects, I doubt he'd say something much different that what I'm saying here. The only other thing he'd probably say is something to the effect that rapid chats are better kept to platforms like Discord and Facebook and Reddit. Unfortunately, as I've mentioned to him, I don't have Facebook and many of the microtonalists that I'm aware of do. Hopefully once we expand to Discord, this problem will be at least partially taken care of. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:44, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
: I should have also mentioned that Xenwolf has also suggested that to me that I type out what I want to say on a separate document and correct it there before I post here in the User Talk pages, but I have to admit I'd sooner see more chats on Discord. If Xenwolf has anything to add to this, especially if it's stuff I don't know about or have forgotten about, then he should respond to us himself, but since I'm not an admin, I wouldn't know. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:54, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: Yes, a separate document. It's worse than I thought, as I assumed I've done something inaccurately, but you say it's not the reason. Yes, a separate document is what I actually do, but I thought there is a really correct way. In the Wiki systems I worked with, such conflicts are well resolved. — [[User:SAKryukov|SA]], ''Wednesday 2020 December 9, 06:10 UTC'' | |||
::: It is? Well, chances are it's just a matter of poor timing then. I do know that when I've been on the receiving end of edit conflicts where I lose my text there is a procedure to make sure your text gets in- look to see what you typed as opposed to what the other person typed, and then see if you can insert your text into the edit window in the correct spot without deleting the other person's text. If there are any more details that need to be resolved, or elements of the procedure that need a better explanation, Xenwolf should know about them. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 06:13, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
Sorry for the confusion Wolf, could you perhaps walk SA through the procedure of how to deal with those edit conflicts in which it's your own comments that get lost? I now think that advice for that particular scenario is what SA was asking for initially, but I misunderstood him as asking about why it is that some edit conflicts happen and why they eliminate one person's comments at one time and the other person's comments at another time. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 07:06, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
: The wiki software is not a valid forum or chat surrogate. It's optimized for collaboratively editing content. There is a chat linked in the side bar, maybe this could be populated to, but others may be even better. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
: Edit conflicts typically happen if editors work through an intended plan save by save, but this plan isn't visible to others. The wiki software ''traditionally''<sup>(see below)</sup> detects conflicts by comparing the base revision of your edit with the last saved revision. In case the last save was after you started editing, you get a warning when you hit [Save changes], this warning includes two boxes, the upper is the text of you collision "opponent", the lower is your text. You may now resolve the conflict by hand. I personally prefer to copy my text before saving (especially in talks with Aura, no offense intended, I just do it, also in other circumstances on other MediaWiki-based wikis). Another option is to copy your changes from the lower box into the upper box, then save it, than apply the "opponent's" edit by help of the history (this option has the downside that others already saw your edit and will probably try the same in parallel). You can (and perhaps should) deliberately provoke an editing conflict by performing two edits in the described manner on a personal page (i.e. in your own user namespace) with two browser tabs. This way the aspects will be much clearer to you than from my dry description. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
: I know that there are platforms that are much better in formal conflict resolution (i.e. merging edits), especially the git-based wiki solutions. But this doesn't help here. MediaWiki has many advantages but as a community project itself it's road map looks somewhat unprofessional to developers new to it. (BTW: they'll move to [[GitLab]] soon) --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
: I said ''traditionally'' because the wiki software obviously had improvements in this aspect. I know of "edit conflicts" that have been silently resolved maybe in other sections, maybe if the line distance is higher than one. After the upgrade to 1.35, also the change diffs look different than before, that is, more helpful. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== SoundCloud == | |||
Thank you for suggesting to look into SoundCloud! | |||
I only want to have the links for those who see this site for the first time, as in my case: | |||
: [[SoundCloud|SoundCloud]] | |||
: — [[User:SAKryukov|SA]], ''Wednesday 2020 December 9, 06:03 UTC'' | |||
:: Sorry, it's not clear to me what you you are trying to say. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:14, 9 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== Island Comma a.k.a. Parizeksma == | |||
Hey, Xenwolf, it appears that the name "parizeksma" is rather well known among the Japanese-speaking members of the Xenharmonic community. Perhaps we should create a corresponding page on 676/675 for the Japanese version of this Wiki- or at least talk to one of the users who can. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:07, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
: Interesting. But I'm not sure if we will find someone who is able to start this Japanese page who is currently active. Did you think of [[User:Triethylamine]]? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:18, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: Yes, and I am in fact trying to message them. However, it seems Triethylamine doesn't understand English- so I used Google translate to translate my messages to them. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:21, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: Since we seem to be on the subject of translating stuff to other languages, do you think we could work together to translate some of my stuff in to German as well? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:28, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
::: We could try. I think you should also have a look on [https://www.deepl.com/home DeepL] (a Germany-based service that turned out to be really good for translating between German and English and vice versa). The question is what would be the best place for the German translations. Maybe [https://de.xen.wiki/w/Hauptseite the German Xenwiki]? If you register there, I'll approve the account. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:44, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: Truth be told, I don't know much German at all, so even though the German Xenwiki is the best place for this information, we'll have to talk through the text we want to put there. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:59, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: I've made the application there. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: I didn't follow the link in time to get confirmed as I needed to translate. Sorry about that. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:10, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: When I try to follow the link, it now says: "Invalid confirmation code. The confirmation period may have passed. Please try to repeat the confirmation." --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:12, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: In German, the page says: "Ungültiger Bestätigungscode. Möglicherweise ist der Bestätigungszeitraum verstrichen. Versuche bitte, die Bestätigung zu wiederholen." --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:14, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
::::: Not sure, what happened, I accepted the account request. Please try again! --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:24, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
::::: You may try the same name, don't forget to add a valid email address. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:27, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::::: Okay, so that's fixed, now I seem to have mistyped my password for the German Xenwiki and I now need to get it corrected. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:28, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
::::::: Please try again. Your account is (again) [[:de:User:Aura]] --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:32, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::::::: Okay, I'm in. I guess I have to be careful how I type. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:34, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::::::: I'm curious now. How do I provide an interwiki link between my user pages? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:36, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
::::::::: Interwiki links are made by adding the language prefix <code><nowiki>[[en:User:Aura]]</nowiki></code> or <code><nowiki>[[de:User:Aura]]</nowiki></code> (these are shown outside the content area) and normal links <code><nowiki>[[:en:User:Aura]]</nowiki></code> or <code><nowiki>[[:de:User:Aura]]</nowiki></code> --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:53, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::: Okay, so, since we're both on both Wikis I need to know how to properly apply what you're saying here. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:52, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::: The only thing I could think of to do was to copy the interwiki code from your user page to mine. I hope you don't mind. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:59, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== Concept translations from English to German == | |||
Hey, Xenwolf, it looks like we've managed to translate "Antitonic" in to German as "Antitonika". I hope we can get to some of these other concepts of mine soon. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:47, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
: Well, I'm not totally sure if this is the exact translation. But let's see... --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 23:50, 20 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: Well, according to what I'm seeing, the Tonic is either 1) the first note of a diatonic scale; the keynote, or 2) the triad built on the tonic note, while "Tonika" is the name for the root note of a scale and the triad on this first level. Since notes that I'm calling "Antitonics" are notes that harmonically oppose the Tonic due to being in the vicinity of 600 cents away from the Tonic (hence the "anti-" prefix), and the various types of chords that I'm referring to as "Antitonic chords" are those that are built on Antitonic notes, it really does make sense to translate "Antitonic" as "Antitonika". That said, "Antitonika" is likely a new term for German- you won't find it elsewhere with comparable meaning since it's used to translate "Antitonic", and I can't even find the musical sense of that English term on Wiktionary- it is likely that I actually coined the term "Antitonic" in English as far as any sort of musical sense goes. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 00:09, 21 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: As to some of the other terms, I can only assume that "Contralead", and "Contramediant" best translate into German as "Kontraleitton", a "Kontramediante" respectively on the basis of "Lead" and "Mediant" translating to "Leitton" and "Mediante" respectively. However, although the term "Subdominant" from traditional music theory translates to "Subdominante", the idea of Treble-Down tonality forces a terminological shift- while the traditional term "Subdominant" translates to "Subdominante", the fact that the corresponding function occurs on the note above the Dominant ("Dominante" in German) in Treble-Down tonality means this perfect fourth scale degree has to be renamed- thus, "Serviant", which is my new term for the perfect fourth scale degree, translates to "Serviante" in German. While "Doppeldominante" from German translates to English as "Supertonic" in traditional music theory, and "Doppelsubdominante" likewise translates to "Subtonic", the problems are twofold- in English, "Supertonic" refers to the note located a whole tone above the Tonic, while "Subtonic" refers to the note located a whole tone below the Tonic, and simultaneously, the term "Doppelsubdominante" needs to be replaced by the term "Doppelserviante" due to the existence of Treble-Down tonality. Therefore, in Treble-Down tonality, "Supertonic" translates to "Doppelserviante" and "Subtonic" translates to "Doppeldominante". As to the terms "Varicant" and "Contravaricant"- which you seem to have taken a fancy to- those terms would most likely translate into German as "Varicante" and "Kontravaricante". Similarly, "Semiserviant" and "Semidominant" translate to "Semiserviante" and "Semidominante" respectively. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 01:06, 21 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== 6250/6237 == | |||
I can't find the name of this comma in the Huygens-Fokker Foundation's list of intervals. I think we need to come up with a name for it. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:36, 21 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
: Well, seems so. But have you an idea what [[6250/6237]] means, how is it tempered out, if it is even relevant? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 23:48, 21 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: Okay, let me look at this comma some and see what I can find out. I already can tell that this comma is relevant considering that it involves the whole 11-limit. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 16:20, 23 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: So, I just ran the numbers through Wolfram Alpha, and it seems that 6250/6237 is tempered out by both 53edo and 159edo despite their differing patent vals for both 7 and 11. It also seems that 6250/6237 is only slightly smaller than Mercator's comma at 3.60472 cents. It appears that when this comma is tempered out, [[160/77]]- which is the difference between [[5/2]] and [[77/64]]- is equated with a stack of four [[6/5]] minor thirds, and a stack of five [[5/4]] major thirds is equated with a stack consisting of an [[octave]] plus [[81/64]] plus [[77/64]]. Upon further calculations, it appears that 6250/6237 is also the difference between the [[keenanisma]] and the [[kleisma]], as well as the difference between the keenanisma and the undecimal hemifourths comma (160083/160000; needs a better name). Moreover, I've found that 6250/6237 is also the difference between the [[amity comma]] and the [[symbiosma|symbiotic comma]], as well as the sum of the [[lehmerisma]] and the wizardharry comma (4000/3993). --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 18:27, 23 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: Let's also run this by Flora and see what she thinks. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 18:11, 23 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:: Hey, Xenwolf, I hope you like the name "liganellus comma" for 6250/6237. I know that Flora doesn't like me attaching the "-ma" suffix to the "u" in words like "nexuma" and "liganelluma", but as I told her, "sm" clusters are sometimes prone to becoming pronounced like "spm", and this is even true for words like "small"- which I'm liable to pronounce as [ˈspmɑɫ]- and I don't want to end up pronouncing "nexma" as [ˈnæ̠kspmə]. Meanwhile, I don't know of a single case in Latin where a double "l" is followed directly by an "m". I hope that makes sense for why I pick some of the names I pick for commas. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:10, 25 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
::: I think the name is okay. But I think the argument to prevent the possibility of mispronunciation is rather weak in a global community. The question for me would be how to correctly build English names from ''liganellus'', for example why not ''liganellic''? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:43, 25 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: Well, it is what it is. As to how to correctly build English names from words like "nexus" and "liganellus", "liganellic" makes sense for a good adjective corresponding to "liganellus", but the right adjective for "nexus" would be "nexal"- yes, "nexal" is a word in English that means "relating to a nexus". --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:46, 25 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: Anyway, should I change "nexuma" and "liganelluma" to something else, and move the "nexuma" page accordingly? I know we can keep the names "nexus comma" and "liganellus comma", but still. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:53, 25 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: Hmm... would "nexisma" be a good replacement for "nexuma"? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 21:57, 25 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: I just realized something- although the argument to prevent the possibility of mispronunciation may be rather weak in a global community on account of the need for translingual names, it is not entirely without merits, as language-specific names for certain intervals are known to exist. Therfore, the name "nexuma" doesn't have to be replaced- rather, it can be noted in the article as purely an English-exclusive alternate name. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 18:24, 26 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== Comma Tables on 53edo and 159edo pages == | |||
Hey, Xenwolf, I've been trying to go through the list of commas to find out which commas are tempered out by 53edo and 159edo, and I'm starting to think that a comma table would be useful for both pages. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 16:18, 23 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== 625/624 == | |||
Hey, Xenwolf, I've found another comma that seems to need a name- [[625/624]]. This comma seems to be like the liganellus comma in that it binds well-known temperaments together- in this case, Catakleismic, Tritikleismic, Quadritikleismic, Octoid, Benediction, Sqrtphi, Ekadash, Countercata, Widefourth, Portentious, Yajna, Enlil, Hanuman, Marvel and Agni. Since this comma seems to be used so much, so on one hand, I could see the name reflecting its usage in extensions. On the other hand, I do see that tempering out this comma not only equates [[25/24]] with [[26/25]], splitting [[13/12]] in half and going part of the way towards splitting the [[9/8]] whole tone into three (the other comma needing to be tempered in order to finish the job being 676/675), but also equates [[39/32]] with the interval that results from stacking four [[5/4]] major thirds then octave-reducing. With all this in mind, perhaps we should call this comma the "vinctrias comma". Any thoughts? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:33, 26 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
Never mind, it Looks like 625/624 is already called the "tunbarsma". Talk about an embarassing case of "open mouth and insert foot". I still like the name "vinctrias" though, so perhaps that name can be given to the temperament that tempers out 625/624 and 676/675. Sorry about all of this mess. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:56, 26 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== 936/935 == | |||
Hey, Xenwolf, I now know that all 13-limit superparticular commas have been named, but is the same thing true with all the 17-limit superparticulars? If not, I'm thinking 936/935 needs a name. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 15:52, 28 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
: Sorry, I don't see an urgent need (compare [[Special:WhatLinksHere/936/935]]). If you really find names that clarify things, there will be nobody to disagree. In other words, I find it rather boring and also not very purposeful to discuss mediocre names. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 19:27, 28 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
== Telicity == | |||
Hey, Xenwolf, I'm trying to iron out the kinks in my concept of "telicity", and I'm wondering if we should actually make an article on it. So far, here's what I have: | |||
'''Telicity''' is a property of [[EDO]]s, which involves the given EDO being able to stack a number of instances of a given prime's [[patent interval]] to connect with an interval belonging to a chain created by lower prime's [[patent interval]] without either accumulating 50% relative error or more at any point in the process on the part of either prime's interval chain, or, creating as mismatch in results between the [[direct mapping]] and the more complicated traditional mapping for any interval along the chain. Furthermore, since the 2-prime simply results in manifestations of the [[unison]] at different registers, thus leading to things like [[octave reduction]], the 2-prime is not a factor that affects what qualifies as telicity ''unless'' an interval in 2-prime chain itself serves as the target of a higher prime's interval chain. | |||
Given this definition, two things are immediately evident. Firstly, any sort of telicity involving the 2-prime cannot afford to temper out commas greater than half an EDO-step in size due to the unison being such a foundational interval to both EDOs and JI, and, the resultant inability to temper out commas greater than half a step in size without exceeding the 50% relative error threshold. Secondly, the only type of telicity available to the 3-prime is 3-to-2 telicity, as 2 is the only positive prime lower than 3, and since octave equivalency renders the unison as the only available target, that means that the 3-prime requires a complete [[circle of fifths]] without accumulating 50% relative error or more. However, higher primes have more options for achieving a form of telicity as there are multiple lower primes to chose from to potentially connect with, For instance, the 5-prime has both 5-to-3 and 5-to-2 telicity available to it. | |||
Combinations of primes are more complicated, but it's safe to say that there are more types of telicity available in such cases- namely "full telicity" and "partial telicity". Full telicity for combinations involving multiple primes occurs when the EDO in question is able to stack a number of instances of a given combination's patent interval to connect with an interval belonging to a chain created by the patent interval for a prime that is lower than the lowest prime in the initial combination after octave reduction is taken into account. In contrast, partial telicity for combinations involving multiple primes occurs when the EDO in question is able to stack a number of instances of a given combination's patent interval to connect with an interval belonging to a chain created by the patent interval for a prime that is lower than the highest prime in the initial combination after octave reduction is taken into account. | |||
Given that different EDOs can temper out different commas to achieve the same type of telicity- for example, [[12edo]] tempers out the [[Pythagorean comma]] to achieve 3-to-2 telicity, while [[53edo]] tempers out [[Mercator's comma]] to achieve 3-to-2 telicity- it can thus be argued that sequences of different EDOs demonstrating one or more types of telicity can be compiled. For instance, the first seven EDOs to demonstrate 3-to-2 telicity specifically are {{EDOs| 2, 5, 12, 24, 53, 106, 159 }}. | |||
Any thoughts? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 17:46, 19 January 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I think it's best you just start the article and then we discuss any questions or issues that may arise together on its talk page. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 22:02, 19 January 2021 (UTC) | |||
== How do I make a template compatible with tables? == | |||
I just made the template ''User:FloraC/Collapsed box'', but it breaks whenever a table is present. I suppose you know how to resolve it. | |||
You might want to check my sandbox and comment on my latest tests. The template ''temperament data'' is something similar to infobox interval and et. The ''collapsed box'' is nothing but a general formatting device. Let me know if either of them makes anything better. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 05:59, 31 January 2021 (UTC) | |||
: The problem occurs whenever pipe chars (<code>|</code>) are passed to a template. Replacing pipes by <code><nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki></code> each will solve the problem, see following example: | |||
<div style="margin-left: 1.5em; padding: 0 0.5em; border: 1px solid #ddf; background-color: #fafafa"> | |||
{{User:FloraC/Collapsed box | |||
| title="bla" | |||
| text= | |||
{{{!}} class="wikitable" | |||
! head1 | |||
! head2 | |||
{{!}}- | |||
{{!}} cell1 | |||
{{!}} cell2 | |||
{{!}}- | |||
{{!}} cell3 | |||
{{!}} cell4 | |||
{{!}}} | |||
}} | |||
</div> | |||
: This, of course, defeats the idea of making collapsible content easier to write. If we'd automatically produce ''Approximate ratios'' from mapping and odd-limit, this could be solved by generating HTML tables with Lua. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 12:29, 31 January 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Audio file types == | |||
I noticed that an internal link on the previously uploaded .mp3 file renders a nice player on the referencing page, which is often used on this site for presenting music pieces and illustrations. | |||
What audio (or other media) file types are supported in the same way? I would mostly care about Opus in its own container. | |||
These days, the most usable Web standard is Opus, and it provides the best combination of compression, quality, and latency. MP3 is not open source and was rendered obsolete more than a decade ago. It can be clearly seen in the Web video. | |||
And what about other types? — [[User:SAKryukov|SA]], ''Monday 2021 February 15, 18:23 UTC'' | |||
: If you go onto the upload page, you'll see a list of file types that are supported (<code>png, gif, jpg, jpeg, webp, mid, mov, scl, mp3, mus2, ogg, pdf, rtf, svg, wav, wma, xlsx, zip, mscz, flac, mkv, mp4, oga, ogv, webm</code>). I saw that Wikipedia (Commons) also has <code>opus</code> in this list, but did not find any example. So it's hard to see how a/the web player might look. Can you show a live example in some other wiki? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:00, 17 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: Thank you. The list of files is pretty good , but Opus is missing :-) It's very good that WebP and WebM are supported, they are currently the best and SVG is extremely important, I already knew it is supported well. No, I don't know examples on other Wiki, I only know how MP3 works. It's just I tried to ask instead of trying out. If referencing MP3 is rendered as a standard HTML5 audio element, it would be reasonable to expect that the same thing happens to, say, Ogg, but I cannot be quite sure. — [[User:SAKryukov|SA]], ''Wednesday 2021 February 17, 18:51 UTC'' | |||
::: I requested the addition of opus to the list and it seems that this will be implemented soon. But it of course doesn't make much sense if nobody actually uses it. I expected you would already have some pieces to upload? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:35, 18 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Cannot see watchlist notifications anymore == | |||
I used to have the notifications, but I found some latest updates on the pages I watch — they did not trigger the notifications. Could you point out what could be wrong? Thank you — [[User:SAKryukov|SA]], ''Monday 2021 February 15, 18:30 UTC'' | |||
: I think you are talking about email notifications about changes on pages you watch. A notification is sent with the first change only and then gets muted until you visit the page again. In the notification, there are two links: one showing the diff for the change itself, one for the diff between the state before that change and the current state. This is what I know about the mediawiki notification system. I personally don't use email notification on this wiki, maybe I should switch it on to see if there is an issue. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 07:34, 17 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: As I see now, there is no switch about email notifications in the preferences? Do you actually receive email notifications? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:05, 17 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
::: Well, not recently. For example, I did not receive a notification on your post to this section. — [[User:SAKryukov|SA]], ''Wednesday 2021 February 17, 17:03 UTC'' | |||
:::: As I found out, there was no email notification. It is due to limitations of the email service being used. You may consider to use [[Wikipedia:Atom (Web standard)|Atom]] for this which is available for recent changes, and watchlist and some other pages. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:39, 18 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Request to review my improvement on a template == | |||
I made a version of ''Template:Wedgie'' currently as ''User:FloraC/Multival'', with the inclusion of legend and selection of number of bracket pairs as in ''User:Arseniiv/Val'''. I hope this will make for a fair replacement. Just make sure there's no overlooked aspects. | |||
Btw shall we deprecate ''Template:OEIS'' since "OEIS" is a valid interwiki prefix? [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 04:00, 10 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
: The template looks quite okay whereas I suggest to implement the number of brackets by a named parameter, something like <code>brackets=3</code> or <code>levels=3</code> or <code>pairs=3</code>. This way nobody will be confused about the order of parameters. I observe that 1 to 4 pairs are supported. Since I still don't understand wedgies and multivals: comes this limitation with the concept itself or is it due to the template? As a side note, the need of such paired switch statements in the template is the exact purpose for having modules enabled in this wiki... --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:07, 10 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: I'll make it a <code>rank=3</code>. I think not supporting more pairs beyond four is due to both the definition of the wedgie and the implementation of the template. More pairs are reasonable through logical extrapolation, but practically it looks rather unwieldy (proportionally to the template itself), and I believe some alternative notations should come to help in those cases. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 12:08, 10 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: I doubt they'll become practical any time soon but higher-dimensional wedgies are in principle possible (for rank 5 and higher temperaments). [[User:IlL|Inthar]] ([[User talk:IlL|talk]]) 15:08, 10 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I think [[Template:OEIS]] is fine as it has prefix with the link to clarify what OEIS means. So I'd not recommend to deprecate one of the two ways to link to sequences. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 08:07, 10 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: Let's integrate the interwiki link into the OEIS template. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 12:08, 10 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
::: That's a good idea. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 19:47, 10 March 2021 (UTC) | |||
== May I request a new username? == | |||
Can I create a new account that I can name more "accessibly" (like "User:Inthar") instead of the current abstruse one? [[User:IlL|Inthar]] ([[User talk:IlL|talk]]) 23:50, 12 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
: In fact I already thought about exactly that. It should be possible. I'll read a bit about it first, and after that, do it. Do you know that this will be result in a redirect from the old name to the new one (which I find makes sense)? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 05:55, 13 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: Yes, that would be okay. [[User:IlL|Inthar]] ([[User talk:IlL|talk]]) 05:57, 13 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
::: All should be done now (including renaming of pages and talk in the user namespace). :) --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 06:07, 13 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::: Thanks [[User:IlL|Inthar]] ([[User talk:IlL|talk]]) 06:23, 13 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Comma Names, and a Preexisting Chart == | |||
Hey, Xenwolf, I haven't been able to get in touch with [[User:Spt3125|Spt3125]], and they seem to be the one to have [[User:Spt3125/R2_2.3.11|first documented]] the existence Nexus comma, the Alpharabian comma and the Betarabian comma, even though they didn't name said commas. I don't know if this person is on Facebook or what. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 01:48, 14 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
I'm hoping that Sept3125 doesn't mind me naming the commas as I did in their absence... --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 01:49, 14 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I'm pretty sure you are using the wrong user name, try [[User:Spt3125]] instead. However, I don't think there will be any problem with the naming of commas. Let's just see how it plays out, it is a wiki after all. :) Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 07:02, 14 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: Thanks for the correction! --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 16:08, 14 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
::: You should be able to [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Special:EmailUser/Spt3125 contact Spt3125 via wikimail], did you already try this? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 09:32, 15 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::: Thanks for the tip! Done. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 14:16, 15 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Proposal: prefer rewording to adding redirects == | |||
I'm deleting ''meantone-family'' since I've reworded the article so that it no longer involves the hyphen. I don't reckon Wikipedia would add a redirect whenever there's such a phrase to be linked, so we perhaps should follow. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 14:04, 10 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
: Okay, I agree with you. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:29, 10 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
== 11- and 13-limit coditone temperament == | |||
I revised technical data for 11- and 13-limit [[Ditonmic family #Coditone|coditone]] temperament. The coditone temperament can be described as '''50&53 temperament''' for 7, 11, and 13 prime limits, tempering out 225/224, 351/350, 385/384, and 847/845 in the 13-limit (with wedgie of {{Multival|13 2 30 -19 -5 …}} on 13-limit). I get information of coditone temperament from [http://www.huygens-fokker.org/docs/lintemps.html List of temperaments] in [http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala Scala] and [http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?ets=50+53&limit=13 13-limit Coditone] in [http://x31eq.com/temper/ Temperament finding scripts]. I renamed "coditonic" for 11-limit 3de&53 and 13-limit 3def&53 temperaments (with wedgie of {{Multival|13 2 30 34 48 …}} on 13-limit) on 10 June 2021. Deal? --[[User:Xenllium|Xenllium]] ([[User talk:Xenllium|talk]]) 10:50, 11 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
: Hi Xenllium, | |||
: I'm afraid I can't help you in this matter. | |||
: My problem is based on the way mathematicians use (their) language: Brevity they perceive as supreme and as pure beauty. But exactly this point leads into a disastrous didactics: between "initiates" and "novices" there is a huge gap that can only be overcome with pain (and most of this pain is endured by the novices). | |||
: I've been successful in programming for about 3 decades now, and in a wide variety of languages, most of which take up much more space than mathematical notation (yes, I've also tried Haskell, which seemed to me a promising contribution to the fusion of the two worlds, but unfortunately also takes a bit more time than I've - so far - been able to spend on it). | |||
: So, conversely, I would be grateful if you could pass on to me some of the mathematical knowledge you clearly have. My services in return could be in the areas of MediaWikis (syntax, templates) and Lua modules. | |||
: I think with your current problem Flora could help you or Mike Battaglia or Cmloegcmluin, maybe also Inthar or Aura. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 14:25, 11 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I think 11-limit coditone was meant to be 50 & 53, as in the temperament finder. The original data on this wiki could be a mistake. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 05:55, 12 June 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Discord link should be on sidebar == | |||
I think the Discord would probably be a more useful resource than the currently inactive IRC chat. [[User:Inthar|Inthar]] ([[User talk:Inthar|talk]]) 19:02, 2 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
: Sounds reasonable, what is this link? You know than I'm not on Discord. I'll be now, again, away for a couple of hours, you may add it to [[:Category:User on Discord]] or ask [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] to add it to [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] (maybe between FB and IRC). --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 22:26, 2 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: https://discord.com/invite/FSF5JFT is the discord link, FloraC wasn't authorized to make the edit. --[[User:Xenoindex|Xenoindex]] ([[User talk:Xenoindex|talk]]) 12:12, 3 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::: I see, thanks Xenoindex for letting me know. What would you suggest as text? What's the group name? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 12:30, 3 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::: "XA Discord" would be perfect. --[[User:Xenoindex|Xenoindex]] ([[User talk:Xenoindex|talk]]) 12:38, 3 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::: Thanks, done. Let me know if there are any problems. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 12:44, 3 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::: We got a problem, the link doesn't show on the main page for logged out users. But, it does show on some special pages for some reason. --[[User:Xenoindex|Xenoindex]] ([[User talk:Xenoindex|talk]]) 13:43, 3 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::: FloraC is currently working on it. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:21, 3 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::: We've figured out what the problem was, the wiki caches need to be purged as they are loading older versions of pages. I managed to do this on the main page by appending "?action=purge" to the URL and clicking the purge button but many other pages remain without the discord link unless someone purges or edits them. A mass-purge of all caches explained here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar#Troubleshooting should resolve the problem completely. --[[User:Xenoindex|Xenoindex]] ([[User talk:Xenoindex|talk]]) 08:16, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::::: Thanks for letting me know, so a temporary problem. Please give me an example where the sidebar is the old one. To me, all seem to be correct (I tried [[Special:Random|Random page]] which is also part of the sidebar). Maybe it's just your browser cache? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 11:20, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::: [[18edo]], [[14/9]], and [[21/16]] each have the old sidebar as of writing this message, they may appear correct if any of the pages have since been edited. I found these particular examples by hitting random page while logged out. Be sure to check while logged out, all sidebars appear correct to users who are logged in for some reason. Also, I know it's not my browser cache because I get the same result on an alternate browser I don't use. --[[User:Xenoindex|Xenoindex]] ([[User talk:Xenoindex|talk]]) 11:54, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::: Please try the following on one of them: click on edit, then save it without doing an actual change. If the sidebar was incorrect before, is it correct after? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 12:07, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::: Saving a change without changing anything doesn't register as an actual change so I made a small change to [[14/9]] and yes it did correct it. --[[User:Xenoindex|Xenoindex]] ([[User talk:Xenoindex|talk]]) 13:48, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::: What do you mean by ''“register as”''? Pressing "Save changes" without changing anything ''is'' possible, I just tried it. That an actual change causes a purge was expected. Please try it again. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 14:36, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::: Just tried it again on [[21/16]] and it didn't appear to correct the sidebar, and by register I meant that it doesn't show up in recent changes or otherwise appear to do anything. --[[User:Xenoindex|Xenoindex]] ([[User talk:Xenoindex|talk]]) 14:41, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::::: I see, thanks for testing. So we must wait for [[User:Tyler Henthorn]] to fix it. I already informed him via E-Mail about the issue. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:11, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::::: After hitting random page a couple hundred times while logged out I can't seem to find any pages with old sidebars. Not sure what happened back there but I'm calling this problem solved. Thank you for all your help, XA Discord will be happy about this. --[[User:Xenoindex|Xenoindex]] ([[User talk:Xenoindex|talk]]) 15:27, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::::::: This is what Tyler told me: ''“I deleted and rebuilt the file cache as a quick fix.”'' I think that's what worked in the end. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:11, 4 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::: PS: FloraC now has the required privileges. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 12:46, 3 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
== EDO vs. edo (and MOS vs. mos) == | |||
Hey Xenwolf. Last week, I added a topic on [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Xenharmonic_Wiki_talk:Conventions Xenharmonic Wiki talk: Conventions] and I thought you might be interested to have a look, since it is related to some page renaming you did the week before. If you'd like, we can discuss over there. --[[User: Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:34, 12 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I think that this is not only a matter of taste and easy writing. I'll come back to this topic soon. Meanwhile I'm not forcing any of the directions but sticking to the old Nedo format will obviously do no harm. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 05:30, 12 July 2021 (UTC) <small>PS: please sign your contributions on talk pages with <code><nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki></code> this automatically adds your name and a timestamp</small> | |||
:: I'm not very happy with the combination of both discussions. I'd tend to do discuss it term by term. I'll add some thoughts concerning ''EDO'' vs. ''edo'' in [[Xenharmonic Wiki talk:Conventions #EDO vs. edo (and MOS vs. mos)]] but don't know if some of them can be extrapolated to ''MOS'' vs. ''mos''. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:31, 12 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
== My Second System for 159edo Notation == | |||
Hey, Xenwolf, have you seen the accidentals I finally came up with for Quartertones, Rastmas and Syntonic Commas? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 16:49, 15 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I saw it right now. Looks interesting but a lot of symbols and combinations to learn. I think I would not be able to keep all of them in mind. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: I'm afraid some of that's unavoidable due to the size of 159edo and the need for accessibility by those not familiar with 53edo. That said, it's still a huge improvement over my first proposed system, as there's only sixteen additional symbols besides the traditional natural, sharp, flat, double sharp and double flat, as opposed to the multiple dozen additional symbols from the first round. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Regular Temperament Sections Disappearing == | |||
For some reason, I can't see the regular temperament sections of the pages when I'm logged out, and Shift-Refresh doesn't seem to be helping. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 13:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
Beyond that, I just added another comma to the list of commas tempered out by 159edo, and I can't see that comma on the list after logging out either, and again Shift-Refresh doesn't seem to be helping. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 14:35, 16 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I tried to open some pages in Edge and observe that parts of pages don't appear (marked with '''cut''') while on some other pages all seem to be correct (marked by ''okay''): <br> [[157edo]] '''cut''', [[28edo]] ''okay'', [[103edo]] '''cut''', [[104edo]] ''okay'', [[176edo]] '''cut'''. <br> Can you confirm the observations for this list? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 14:44, 16 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: I can confirm your observations for 157edo, and 176edo easily, though I've noticed that after logging in on Edge, all the parts of the pages seem to be present, while things are missing from these pages after logging out even using Google Chrome. I'm not quite sure what's missing from 103edo after logging out since I'm not quite as familiar with the contents of that page, but both of the pages that you've marked "okay" pages seem to be fine after logging out. I've also noticed that the list of prime harmonics on the 159edo page is in the wrong place after logging out- it's on the page, but in a different spot. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 15:38, 16 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::: It looks like a cache issue. Pages of the [https://en.xen.wiki/w/Special:AllPages?from=&to=&namespace=0 article namespace] (also called <code>(main)</code>) are not showing additions after [https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3ASidebar&type=revision&diff=73749&oldid=73598 13:06, 5 July 2021]. There are some exceptions for '''''moved''''' or '''''newly created''''' pages which I don't understand right now. I think that's something that should be reported to [[User:Tyler Henthorn]]. Unfortunately I have currently not the time to do it... --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 15:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::: I now reported the issue via PM to Tyler. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:25, 16 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Suggested change to edo pages: odd harmonics instead of primes in edo approximation tables == | |||
Hello Xenwolf, | |||
We (including [[User:SupahstarSaga]], [[User:Fredg999]] and I) would like to resurrect [[Xenharmonic_Wiki:Things_to_do#Odd_harmonics_table_instead_of_prime_harmonics_for_edos|an old suggestion of mine]], namely using odds instead of primes. This is because odd mappings give more information at a glance than primes: odd harmonic mappings don't always correspond to prime mappings (for example, a stack of two best 3's don't always make the best 9), and subgroup interpretations can sometimes care about ratios between odds harmonics, for example, 7/5 and 11/5. I made a template implementing this suggestion here: [[User:Inthar/Template:Harmonics_in_edo]]. We also want to do this with other equal-step tunings such as [[13edt]]. Tom Price also suggested an additional visual idea I really like. We could try implementing that with Lua, but in the meantime I think this will do. | |||
I'd just like to reopen the discussion about this suggested change. Please let me know on the relevant discussion page if you have any concerns. | |||
[[User:Inthar|Inthar]] ([[User talk:Inthar|talk]]) 21:15, 24 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Organization of music references == | |||
After cleaning up (or setting up) the Music sections in a few edo pages ([[0edo]] through [[6edo]] so far), I've started to think that maintaining lists like these manually is probably the reason why they end up outdated most of the time. I thought, maybe a xenharmonic music database would be better suited for that, in which each piece could be tagged with its tuning(s), scale(s) if applicable, etc. And then I noted that the Wiki is basically a database of pages and other stuff, and that using the Wiki could be an option. Of course, music will have to be added manually, but that's the price for having a platform-independent database; the advantage to be able to filter by genre or by tuning seems to be worth the effort to me. | |||
So I was wondering, are there technical issues that would arise if we were to create individual pages for each track instead of building large tables spread over multiple pages as we currently do? It seems to me that there are already a lot of pages because of all these intervals and scales having individual pages, so I don't see what sort of problem could arise, but I'm asking in case I'm missing something. Also, if you're aware of automating tools that could be helpful in setting up multiple pages (e.g. reading from a .csv file and creating pages in bulk), that could be handy as well. [[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:23, 26 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
'''UPDATE:''' After discussing with [[User:Xenoindex|xenoindex]], we agreed that having single pages for each song would clutter the search results in the search bar. I came up with the idea to set up a parallel wiki, something like ''music.xen.wiki'', which could store those pages while avoiding the aforementioned problem. It would be easy to bridge those pages with the main wiki, although I guess that assumes linking to the English wiki only. | |||
Also, I want to clarify that I'm not sure whether or not I will have a lot of time to spend on this project, especially since there are other things I want to work on as well. For now I'm just asking to know how it works in case I want to start. There is already one other user from XA Discord who mentioned being interested to contribute if we started though, so I wouldn't be alone. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 15:56, 29 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
'''UPDATE 2:''' After discussing with [[User:SupahstarSaga|HEHEHE I AM A SUPAHSTAR SAGA]], maybe another wiki isn't necessary, but otherwise we agreed on the other core ideas. --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 15:28, 30 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Request for help on a new microtonal theory == | |||
Xenwolf, I know that you have much more experience in microtones than I do, so I would like you to take a look at my new microtonal theory, [[User:Userminusone/Intervallic Polarity|Intervallic Polarity]]. This is something that I think has useful implications, but right now, its definition is a bit shaky and also quite subjective. If you are willing, I would really appreciate it if you could give me your thoughts on this theory or maybe even help me refine and expand upon its definition. Best regards, [[User:Userminusone|Userminusone]] ([[User talk:Userminusone|talk]]) 21:54, 1 August 2021 (UTC) | |||
: Sorry for my late response. I meanwhile tried twice to get an overview of your ideas and kept it on my todo list. Now I have to admit that I'm probably not able to contribute to this theory. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 13:19, 19 September 2021 (UTC) | |||
== A clue on the telephone numbers problem == | |||
Looking forward to your comment on [[User talk:KingHyperio #Telephone numbers problem]]. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 19:11, 16 September 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I just read about it (and already responded there). --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 13:15, 19 September 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Leantone Temperament == | |||
I saw that you were the last to edit a couple of the Leantone scale pages, and I wanted to ask if Leantone, as a 2.9.5.7.11 temperament, is meant to reach the 11 in 3 generators or 9? I’m likely going to add something on the subgroup temperaments page for it so I wanted to check. [[User:KingHyperio|KingHyperio]] ([[User talk:KingHyperio|talk]]) 16:07, 21 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
Or if it does in some other number of generators [[User:KingHyperio|KingHyperio]] ([[User talk:KingHyperio|talk]]) 16:12, 21 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
: I'm really sorry, but I have to admit that I have only made formal changes to these pages and have no experience with the actual content. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 16:32, 21 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
Ok, thanks anyways [[User:KingHyperio|KingHyperio]] ([[User talk:KingHyperio|talk]]) 16:36, 21 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
: From my understanding, the tempered 11th harmonic is reached in 3 periods (~1200¢ each) and 3 generators (~192.5¢ each). If you look at the reduced mapping on x31eq (http://x31eq.com/cgi-bin/rt.cgi?limit=2_9_5_7_11&ets=6_7d), the last column of the matrix will give you that information (the top "3" is the number of periods, the bottom "3" is the number of generators). This implies that 11/8 is mapped to 3 generators, for example. I hope this helps! --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 18:32, 21 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
== 311 EDO huge table == | |||
311 EDO is a one-of-a-kind extremely consistent system to the point it can be said to be the first true melodic model of the harmonic series itself. Therefore to understand the structure of the harmonic series (at least in the 41-limit add-73) without making it impractical, it would be useful to use 311 EDO, and 311 EDO is a great alternative to cents for this reason (which requires smaller numbers and only round numbers) because of being distinctly consistent in the [[23-odd-limit]] and consistent in the 41-prime-limited 77-odd-limit with prime harmonic 73 included as the only prime over 41 and under 81 which is more in tune than out of tune (which is to say its step error is less than a quarter), but furthermore, because of it fitting the way 311 EDO maps the harmonic series by filling a gap and because of it being an odd prime with less error than all previous primes. 311 EDO is therefore a natural system to inspect when looking at ways of modelling higher-limit systems and has important connections with many simpler systems. Just one example would be [[Canousmic_temperaments#Superlimmal|Superlimmal]], the 29-limit 80&311 temperament. Another reason it is a one-of-a-kind system is that in terms of having rooted harmonics with less than 25% error each, I did a search before in Python 3 and there is nothing that beats it until over 20 thousand, meaning it is simultaneously the first and last EDO to truly approximate the harmonic series, and the fact it does it up to a very large subset of the 77-odd-limit makes it worth inspecting the structure of for anyone wishing to learn medium-to-high-complexity tempered JI/odd-limits. Sorry if I've overstressed my point. Also the other table has been there for as long as I remember, and I felt it was both incomplete and messy so I wanted a table from a more systematic approach. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 23:17, 27 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
Oh one other thing, feel free to suggest ways of making the table prettier. For example, I was initially only putting the intervals of the form a/b for a>b and for a and b from 39 to 78 (not including primes >41 other than 73 and corresponding thusly to the 41-prime-limited add-73 77-odd-limit) but then I noticed the end of the table was sparse and some intervals were missing, so instead I put the octave-complement of each such interval too, but this made the organisation messier. It does mean however that the interval table could potentially have its size halved without any loss of information and with the only caveat that you'd have to calculate octave-complements of intervals yourself (both in terms of number of steps and in terms of JI intervals). I think my former method which lead to a more orderly organisation of odd-limit intervals per interval of 311 EDO was maybe better especially considering it lead to simpler code too. Once I or others decide which is the better method I may start hand-prettifying the table by adding consistently-mapped odd-limit intervals or commas for empty intervals of 311 EDO in the table. One example could be that 9801/9800, 441/440 and 385/384 are all mapped to 1\311, although my concern for giving interpretations like that is there is a gargantuan number of intervals that are mapped to one or two steps of 311 EDO, so maybe leaving them blank is more elegant. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 23:26, 27 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Categorization of redirects == | |||
I see it fit to categorize temperament redirects cuz they're eventually to be expanded to full articles. For ratios redirecting to interval names, I'm not sure. They're essentially the same concept and will never be distinct articles. So the categories are duplicate, and the maintenance load also doubles. What's your take on this? [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 12:52, 3 April 2022 (UTC) | |||
: I find it generally useful to also make alternative names findable in categories (they are italicized to distinguish them). In the index of a book, there are sometimes short references instead of page numbers (I consider the categorization of redirects to be the wiki equivalent of this). But I'm not sure the categories are useful overall. Personally, I see them more as "fire stairs" to articles. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:22, 3 April 2022 (UTC) | |||
== Step ratio terms in other languages == | |||
Kite has brought up what he sees as a possible issue in hard vs. soft terms ([[Talk:TAMNAMS#Hard_and_soft_in_French.2C_German.2C_etc.|here]]) when translated to European languages. Looking at the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_signature_names_and_translations Wikipedia page] he's linking to, there seems to be no conflict in Romance languages at least, and from my German knowledge there is no conflict between ''hart/weich'' and ''Dur/moll''. There could be other reasons literal translations of hard and soft are unsuitable, though (I don't know what [[de:Diskussion:Schrittverhältnis#Benennung|your comment]] on the German article for step ratio was pointing at). My suggestion would be to create a page for translating TAMNAMS hard and soft terms, specifically, and patiently wait for native speaker input. [[User:Inthar|Inthar]] ([[User talk:Inthar|talk]]) 14:52, 19 August 2022 (UTC) | |||
: Concur. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 19:30, 19 August 2022 (UTC) | |||
:: Thanks for letting me know, I replied in [[Talk:TAMNAMS#Hard and soft in French, German, etc.]]. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 20:29, 31 August 2022 (UTC) | |||
== Maintenance bot == | |||
Hi Xenwolf, I notice that we sometimes do manual cleaning which could be automated by bots, such as fixing double redirects. I stumbled upon this yesterday: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikibot/redirect.py | |||
Do you think there's a chance it could be installed on this wiki? Unless there's already something similar available that I don't know of yet? --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 16:11, 8 October 2022 (UTC) | |||
: I don't think anything like this exists yet. The person who takes care of the server side installation is [[User:Tyler Henthorn|Tyler Henthorn]], maybe you can share your ideas with him. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 21:06, 13 October 2022 (UTC) | |||
== In-browser sound generation == | |||
Hi Xenwolf! | |||
My in-browser sound generation project ([[User:Plumtree/Sound]]) is essentially ready. Could you review [[User:Plumtree/common.js]] and [[User:Plumtree/common.css]] and, if there're no issues, include those globally? | |||
The best option would've been [[mw:Extension:Gadgets]] for JS and [[mw:Extension:TemplateStyles]] for CSS. Alas, they aren't installed. I've asked [[User:Tyler Henthorn]] for them but his last edit was more than a year ago and it's unlikely he'll answer any time soon. | |||
What does JS do? | |||
* It reacts to clicks on HTML elements with class <code>sequence-audio</code>. When one is clicked, it reads its <code>data-sequence</code> attribute and plays the encoded pattern. | |||
* If <code>data-lock</code> attribute is set, it also adds the <code>sequence-audio-playing</code> class and ignores further clicks for the duration of the sequence. | |||
* Timbres defined by their harmonic spectra are supported. Builtins are <code>sine</code>, <code>semisine</code>, <code>flute</code>, <code>violin</code>; you can supply custom ones using <code>data-timbre-X</code> attributes. | |||
* A sequence consists of the following elements, separated by whitespaces: | |||
** <code>wait:DURATION</code> - adds DURATION ms to the global time shift, which starts at 0. | |||
** <code>FREQUENCY:DURATION:GAIN:SHIFT:INSTRUMENT</code> - plays FREQUENCY for DURATION ms with GAIN with timbre specified with INSTRUMENT. It starts at global shift + SHIFT ms, and global shift isn't modified. INSTRUMENT's default is <code>sine</code>; SHIFT's default is <code>0</code>. | |||
* For example, sequences used for interval demonstration look like this: <code>440:1000:0.1 660:1000:0.1:500 wait:2000 660:1000:0.1 440:1000:0.1:500 wait:2000 440:1000:0.1 660:1000:0.1</code>. | |||
* Modern browsers support Web Audio API quite well and I don't expect any compatibility issues. | |||
What does CSS handle? | |||
* Background colour of <code>.sequence-audio-button</code> elements depending on their state. | |||
* Cursor styles upon <code>.sequence-audio-button</code> elements so that they're interpreted as interactive. | |||
* Additionally, <code>.white-key</code> and <code>.black-key</code> elements have the corresponding colours. Those may be used to build interactive keyboards for ETs. | |||
Examples (all require [[User:Plumtree/common.js]] and [[User:Plumtree/common.css]] to be properly viewed): | |||
* [[User:Plumtree/Sound]] - mostly tests of intervals. | |||
* [[User:Plumtree/Sandbox/Interval]] - actually tests of intervals as they're going to be included into [[Template:Infobox Interval]]. | |||
* [[User:Plumtree/Audio]] - the template which is currently the main interface for this JS. | |||
[[User:Plumtree|Plumtree]] ([[User talk:Plumtree|talk]]) 17:52, 16 October 2022 (UTC) | |||
== Thank you for reconstructing my diagram on 10648/10647 == | |||
Thank you, Xenwolf, for reconstructing my diagram on the harmonisma, 10648/10647, and your helpful hint on formatting monospaced text for alignment. | |||
Your reformatting gave me the opportunity to spot and correct my mistakes in the original diagram, which were of course my own responsibility. Thanks to your help, the corrected diagram should hopefully help readers to visualize the relationship between the 10648/10647 and the 352/351 and 364/363. [[User:Mschulter1325|Mschulter1325]] 19:38, 11 November 2022 (UTC) | |||
: You're welcome, it was a pleasure to help. Shouldn't the chart be placed on page [[10648/10647]] itself after the corrections are made? --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 10:03, 12 November 2022 (UTC) | |||
Yes, it's corrected, and I just put some final touches on tidying up the alignment, so it should be ready to go on the article's page. Many thanks for your assistance! [[User:Mschulter1325|Mschulter1325]] 04:20, 15 November 2022 (UTC) | |||
== Add HEJI font to CSS == | |||
Hi Xenwolf, | |||
I'd like to add a bit of code to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so that we can use the HEJI2Text font on the wiki (instead of relying on a bunch of SVG images, namely), but I don't have admin access so I can't do it myself. Do you think you could add it? | |||
<pre><nowiki> | |||
/* use HEJI2Text font if class="heji" */ | |||
@font-face { | |||
font-family: HEJI2Text; | |||
src: url(https://plainsound.org/fonts/HEJI2Text.otf); | |||
} | |||
.heji { | |||
font-family: HEJI2Text; | |||
} | |||
</nowiki></pre> | |||
--[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 07:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
: Hi Fredg999, would you please try the additions needed within [[User:Fredg999/common.css|''your personal common.css'']] and prepare or collect some representative examples (maybe just links to pages)? This would also be a good basis to better understand the impact of this proposal on the site and for discussing individual points with other users. Best regards --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 18:06, 3 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
:: I added a few examples to [[User:Fredg999/Sandbox#HEJI2Text testing area|''my personal Sandbox page'']]. Here is a screenshot of the result: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10ZLax9RYqQg3-mQtV9YeKPC--2VmvR43/view?usp=sharing | |||
:: The main use case I have in mind is the [[Helmholtz-Ellis notation]] page, where we could improve the reference tables and give more examples efficiently using the HEJI font. I was thinking of adding a table that shows all symbols (a bit like the HEJI notation palette on [https://www.plainsound.org/HEJI/ Plainsound's HS CALC]), but also shows the character mapping, so that readers can learn to use the font more easily on the wiki and elsewhere. | |||
:: Most symbols from the [[Alternative symbols for ups and downs notation]] could also be written using the HEJI font, since it provides symbols for each combination of the standard chromatic accidentals with one, two or three up or down arrows. | |||
:: Many other pages about just intonation could benefit from HEJI symbols as well, such as interval tables on various EDO pages (for easy up/down symbols as a complement to their "text" version; e.g. [[22edo#Intervals]]), as well as the [[Overtone scale]] page, where notation would be another representation of the JI scales, alongside the solfege notations already present, for example. | |||
:: --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 03:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
::: I added the font to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 06:52, 4 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
:::: Thank you! --[[User:Fredg999|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999|talk]]) 07:13, 4 January 2023 (UTC) | |||