39edo: Difference between revisions
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A particular anecdote with this system was made in the ''Teliochordon'', in 1788 by {{w|Charles Clagget}} (Ireland, 1740?–1820), a little extract [http://ml.oxfordjournals.org/content/76/2/291.extract.jpg here]. | A particular anecdote with this system was made in the ''Teliochordon'', in 1788 by {{w|Charles Clagget}} (Ireland, 1740?–1820), a little extract [http://ml.oxfordjournals.org/content/76/2/291.extract.jpg here]. | ||
As a [[superpyth]] system, 39edo is intermediate between [[17edo]] and [[22edo]] {{nowrap|(39 {{=}} 17 + 22)}}. The specific 7-limit variant supported by 39et is [[quasisuper]]. While 17edo is superb for melody (as documented by [[George Secor]]), it does not approximate the 5th harmonic at all and only poorly approximates the 7th. 22edo is much better for 5-limit and 7-limit harmony but is less effective for melody because the | As a [[superpyth]] system, 39edo is intermediate between [[17edo]] and [[22edo]] {{nowrap|(39 {{=}} 17 + 22)}}; its fifth thus falls in the "shrub region" where the diatonic thirds are between standard neogothic thirds and septimal thirds. The specific 7-limit variant supported by 39et is [[quasisuper]]. While 17edo is superb for melody (as documented by [[George Secor]]), it does not approximate the 5th harmonic at all and only poorly approximates the 7th. 22edo is much better for 5-limit and 7-limit harmony but is less effective for melody because the [[diatonic semitone]] is [[quartertone]]-sized, which results in a very strange-sounding [[5L 2s|diatonic scale]]. 39edo offers a compromise, since it still supports good 5- and 7-limit harmonies (though less close than 22edo), while at the same time having a diatonic semitone of 61.5 cents, as the ideal diatonic semitone for melody is somewhere in between 60 and 80 cents, i.e. a third tone, by Secor's estimates. | ||
Alternatively, if we take 22\39 as a fifth, 39edo can be used as a tuning of [[mavila]], and from that point of view it seems to have attracted the attention of the [[Armodue]] school, an Italian group that use the scheme of [[7L 2s|superdiatonic]] LLLsLLLLs like a base scale for notation and theory, suited in [[16edo]], and allied systems: [[25edo]] [1/3-tone 3;2]; [[41edo]] [1/5-tone 5;3]; and [[57edo]] [1/7-tone 7;4]. The [[hornbostel]] temperament is included too with: [[23edo]] [1/3-tone 3;1]; 39edo [1/5-tone 5;2] & [[62edo]] [1/8-tone 8;3]. The mavila fifth in 39edo like all mavila fifths is very, very flat, in this case, 25{{c}} flat. | Alternatively, if we take 22\39 as a fifth, 39edo can be used as a tuning of [[mavila]], and from that point of view it seems to have attracted the attention of the [[Armodue]] school, an Italian group that use the scheme of [[7L 2s|superdiatonic]] LLLsLLLLs like a base scale for notation and theory, suited in [[16edo]], and allied systems: [[25edo]] [1/3-tone 3;2]; [[41edo]] [1/5-tone 5;3]; and [[57edo]] [1/7-tone 7;4]. The [[hornbostel]] temperament is included too with: [[23edo]] [1/3-tone 3;1]; 39edo [1/5-tone 5;2] & [[62edo]] [1/8-tone 8;3]. The mavila fifth in 39edo like all mavila fifths is very, very flat, in this case, 25{{c}} flat. | ||
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=== Octave stretch === | === Octave stretch === | ||
39edo's approximations of harmonics 3, 5, 7, and 11 can all be improved by slightly [[octave shrinking|compressing the octave]], using tunings such as [[62edt]] or [[101ed6]]. [[ | 39edo's approximations of harmonics 3, 5, 7, and 11 can all be improved by slightly [[octave shrinking|compressing the octave]], using tunings such as [[62edt]] or [[101ed6]]. [[equal tuning|18ed11/8]], a heavily compressed version of 39edo where the harmonics 13 and 17 are brought to tune at the cost of a worse 11, is also a possible choice. | ||
There are also some nearby [[zeta peak index]] (ZPI) tunings which can be used for this same purpose: 171zpi, 172zpi and 173zpi. The main zeta peak index page details all three tunings. | There are also some nearby [[zeta peak index]] (ZPI) tunings which can be used for this same purpose: 171zpi, 172zpi and 173zpi. The main zeta peak index page details all three tunings. | ||
=== Subsets and supersets === | === Subsets and supersets === | ||
Since 39 factors into {{ | Since 39 factors into {{nowrap| 3 × 13 }}, 39edo contains [[3edo]] and [[13edo]] as subsets. Multiplying 39edo by 2 yields [[78edo]], which corrects several harmonics. | ||
== Intervals == | == Intervals == | ||
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! Approximate ratios* | ! Approximate ratios* | ||
! colspan="3" | [[Ups and downs notation]] | ! colspan="3" | [[Ups and downs notation]] | ||
! colspan="3" | [[Nearest just interval]] <br | ! colspan="3" | [[Nearest just interval]] <br>(Ratio, cents, error) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 0 | | 0 | ||
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| 30.8 | | 30.8 | ||
| ''[[36/35]]'', [[50/49]], [[55/54]], [[56/55]], [[81/80]] | | ''[[36/35]]'', [[50/49]], [[55/54]], [[56/55]], [[81/80]] | ||
| ^1, <br | | ^1, <br>vm2 | ||
| up unison, <br | | up unison, <br>downminor 2nd | ||
| ^D, <br | | ^D, <br>vEb | ||
| 57/56 | | 57/56 | ||
| 30.64 | | 30.64 | ||
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| 246.2 | | 246.2 | ||
| [[81/70]] | | [[81/70]] | ||
| ^M2, <br | | ^M2, <br>vm3 | ||
| upmajor 2nd, <br | | upmajor 2nd, <br>downminor 3rd | ||
| ^E, <br | | ^E, <br>vF | ||
| 15/13 | | 15/13 | ||
| 247.74 | | 247.74 | ||
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| 584.6 | | 584.6 | ||
| [[7/5]] | | [[7/5]] | ||
| vvA4, <br | | vvA4, <br>^d5 | ||
| dudaug 4th, <br | | dudaug 4th, <br>updim 5th | ||
| vvG#, <br | | vvG#, <br>^Ab | ||
| 7/5 | | 7/5 | ||
| 582.51 | | 582.51 | ||
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| 615.4 | | 615.4 | ||
| [[10/7]] | | [[10/7]] | ||
| vA4, <br | | vA4, <br>^^d5 | ||
| downaug 4th, <br | | downaug 4th, <br>dupdim 5th | ||
| vG#, <br | | vG#, <br>^^Ab | ||
| 10/7 | | 10/7 | ||
| 617.49 | | 617.49 | ||
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| 953.8 | | 953.8 | ||
| [[140/81]] | | [[140/81]] | ||
| ^M6, <br | | ^M6, <br>vm7 | ||
| upmajor 6th, <br | | upmajor 6th, <br>downminor 7th | ||
| ^B, <br | | ^B, <br>vC | ||
| 26/15 | | 26/15 | ||
| 952.26 | | 952.26 | ||
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| 1169.2 | | 1169.2 | ||
| ''[[35/18]]'', [[49/25]], [[55/28]], [[108/55]], [[160/81]] | | ''[[35/18]]'', [[49/25]], [[55/28]], [[108/55]], [[160/81]] | ||
| ^M7, <br | | ^M7, <br>v8 | ||
| upmajor 7th, <br | | upmajor 7th, <br>down 8ve | ||
| ^C#, <br | | ^C#, <br>vD | ||
| 112/57 | | 112/57 | ||
| 1169.36 | | 1169.36 | ||
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39edo can be notated with [[ups and downs]], spoken as up, dup, dudsharp, downsharp, sharp, upsharp etc. and down, dud, dupflat etc. Note that dudsharp is equivalent to trup (triple-up) and dupflat is equivalent to trud (triple-down). | 39edo can be notated with [[ups and downs]], spoken as up, dup, dudsharp, downsharp, sharp, upsharp etc. and down, dud, dupflat etc. Note that dudsharp is equivalent to trup (triple-up) and dupflat is equivalent to trud (triple-down). | ||
{{Sharpness-sharp5a}} | {{Sharpness-sharp5a}} | ||
Another notation uses [[Alternative symbols for ups and downs notation#Sharp-5|alternative ups and downs]]. Here, this can be done using sharps and flats with arrows, borrowed from extended [[Helmholtz–Ellis notation]]: | Another notation uses [[Alternative symbols for ups and downs notation #Sharp-5|alternative ups and downs]]. Here, this can be done using sharps and flats with arrows, borrowed from extended [[Helmholtz–Ellis notation]]: | ||
{{Sharpness-sharp5}} | {{Sharpness-sharp5}} | ||
=== Sagittal notation === | === Sagittal notation === | ||
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</imagemap> | </imagemap> | ||
====Revo flavor==== | ==== Revo flavor ==== | ||
<imagemap> | <imagemap> | ||
File:39-EDO_Revo_Sagittal.svg | File:39-EDO_Revo_Sagittal.svg | ||
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| 1 | | 1 | ||
| 2/1 | | 2/1 | ||
|} | |} | ||
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! rowspan="2" | [[Comma list]] | ! rowspan="2" | [[Comma list]] | ||
! rowspan="2" | [[Mapping]] | ! rowspan="2" | [[Mapping]] | ||
! rowspan="2" | Optimal <br | ! rowspan="2" | Optimal <br>8ve stretch (¢) | ||
! colspan="2" | Tuning error | ! colspan="2" | Tuning error | ||
|- | |- | ||
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|- | |- | ||
| 3 | | 3 | ||
| 8\39 <br | | 8\39 <br>(5\39) | ||
| 246.2 <br | | 246.2 <br>(153.8) | ||
| [[Triforce]] (39) | | [[Triforce]] (39) | ||
| [[3L 3s]], [[6L 3s]], [[9L 6s]], [[15L 9s]] | | [[3L 3s]], [[6L 3s]], [[9L 6s]], [[15L 9s]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 3 | | 3 | ||
| 16\39 <br | | 16\39 <br>(3\39) | ||
| 492.3 <br | | 492.3 <br>(92.3) | ||
| [[Augene]] (39d) | | [[Augene]] (39d) | ||
| [[3L 3s]], [[3L 6s]], [[3L 9s]], [[12L 3s]], [[12L 15s]] | | [[3L 3s]], [[3L 6s]], [[3L 9s]], [[12L 3s]], [[12L 15s]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 3 | | 3 | ||
| 17\39 <br | | 17\39 <br>(4\39) | ||
| 523.1 <br | | 523.1 <br>(123.0) | ||
| [[Deflated]] (39bd) | | [[Deflated]] (39bd) | ||
| [[3L 3s]], [[3L 6s]], [[9L 3s]], [[9L 12s]], [[9L 21s]] | | [[3L 3s]], [[3L 6s]], [[9L 3s]], [[9L 12s]], [[9L 21s]] | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 13 | | 13 | ||
| 16\39 <br | | 16\39 <br>(1\39) | ||
| 492.3 <br | | 492.3 <br>(30.8) | ||
| [[Tridecatonic]] | | [[Tridecatonic]] | ||
| [[13L 13s]] | | [[13L 13s]] | ||
|} | |} | ||
<nowiki/>* [[Normal lists|Octave-reduced form]], reduced to the first half-octave, and [[ | <nowiki/>* [[Normal lists|Octave-reduced form]], reduced to the first half-octave, and [[normal lists|minimal form]] in parentheses if distinct | ||
== 39edo and world music == | == 39edo and world music == | ||
39edo is a good candidate for a "universal tuning" in that it offers reasonable approximations of many different world music [[ | 39edo is a good candidate for a "universal tuning" in that it offers reasonable approximations of many different world music [[approaches to musical tuning|traditions]]; it is one of the simplest edos that can make this claim. Because of this, composers wishing to combine multiple world music traditions (for example, [[gamelan]] with [[maqam]] singing) within one unified framework might find 39edo an interesting possibility. | ||
=== Western === | === Western === | ||
39edo offers not one, but several different ways to realize the traditional Western diatonic scale. One way is to simply take a [[chain of fifths]] (the diatonic | 39edo offers not one, but several different ways to realize the traditional Western diatonic scale. One way is to simply take a [[chain of fifths]] (the diatonic mos: 7 7 2 7 7 7 2). Because 39edo is a [[superpyth]] rather than a [[meantone]] system, this means that the harmonic quality of its diatonic scale will differ somewhat, since "minor" and "major" triads now approximate 6:7:9 and 14:18:21 respectively, rather than 10:12:15 and 4:5:6 as in meantone diatonic systems. Diatonic compositions translated onto this scale thus acquire a wildly different harmonic character, albeit still pleasing. | ||
Another option is to use a [[ | Another option is to use a [[modmos]], such as 7 6 3 7 6 7 3; this scale enables us to continue using [[5-limit|pental]] rather than [[7-limit|septimal]] thirds, but it has a false ([[wolf interval|wolf]]) fifth. When translating diatonic compositions into this scale, it is possible to avoid the wolf fifth by introducing accidental notes when necessary. It is also possible to avoid the wolf fifth by extending the scale to either 7 3 3 3 7 3 3 7 3 (a [[modmos]] of type [[3L 6s]]) or 4 3 6 3 4 3 6 4 3 3. There are other modmos scales that combine both pental and septimal harmonies. As such, a single Western classical or pop composition can be translated into 39edo in ''many'' different ways, acquiring a distinctly different but still harmonious character each time. | ||
The | The mos and the modmos scales all have smaller-than-usual [[semitone (interval region)|semitones]], which makes them more effective for melody than their counterparts in 12edo or meantone systems. | ||
Because 39edo and 12edo both have an overall sharp character and share the same major third, they have a relatively similar sound. Thus, 39edo (unlike, say, 22edo or 19edo, which are both "acquired tastes") does not sound all that [[xenharmonic]] to people used to 12edo. Check out [https://www.prismnet.com/~hmiller/midi/canon39.mid Pachelbel's Canon in 39edo] (using the | Because 39edo and 12edo both have an overall sharp character and share the same major third, they have a relatively similar sound. Thus, 39edo (unlike, say, 22edo or 19edo, which are both "acquired tastes") does not sound all that [[xenharmonic]] to people used to 12edo. Check out [https://www.prismnet.com/~hmiller/midi/canon39.mid Pachelbel's Canon in 39edo] (using the 7 6 3 7 6 7 3 modmos), for example. | ||
=== Indian === | === Indian === | ||
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=== Arabic, Turkish, Iranian === | === Arabic, Turkish, Iranian === | ||
While [[Arabic, Turkish, Persian|middle-eastern music]] is commonly approximated using [[24edo]], 39edo offers a potentially better alternative. [[17edo]] and 24edo both satisfy the "Level 1" requirements for [[maqam]] tuning systems. 39edo is a Level 2 system because: | While [[Arabic, Turkish, Persian music|middle-eastern music]] is commonly approximated using [[24edo]], 39edo offers a potentially better alternative. [[17edo]] and 24edo both satisfy the "Level 1" requirements for [[maqam]] tuning systems. 39edo is a Level 2 system because: | ||
* It has two types of "neutral" seconds (154 and 185 cents) | * It has two types of "neutral" seconds (154 and 185 cents) | ||
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=== Blues / Jazz / African-American === | === Blues / Jazz / African-American === | ||
The [[harmonic seventh]] ("[[barbershop]] seventh") [[tetrad]] is reasonably well approximated in 39edo, and some temperaments (augene in particular) give scales that are liberally supplied with them. John Coltrane might have loved augene ( | The [[harmonic seventh]] ("[[barbershop]] seventh") [[tetrad]] is reasonably well approximated in 39edo, and some temperaments (augene in particular) give scales that are liberally supplied with them. John Coltrane might have loved augene (→ [[Wikipedia: Coltrane changes]]). | ||
[[Tritone]] substitution, which is a major part of jazz and blues harmony, is more complicated in 39edo because there are two types of tritones. Therefore, the tritone substitution of one seventh chord will need to be a different type of seventh chord. However, this also opens new possibilities; if the substituted chord is of a more consonant type than the original, then the tritone substitution may function as a ''resolution'' rather than a suspension. | [[Tritone]] substitution, which is a major part of jazz and blues harmony, is more complicated in 39edo because there are two types of tritones. Therefore, the tritone substitution of one seventh chord will need to be a different type of seventh chord. However, this also opens new possibilities; if the substituted chord is of a more consonant type than the original, then the tritone substitution may function as a ''resolution'' rather than a suspension. | ||
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=== Other === | === Other === | ||
39edo offers approximations of [[pelog]] and [[mavila]] using the flat fifth as a generator. | 39edo offers approximations of [[pelog]] and [[mavila]] using the flat fifth as a generator. Pelog can also be approximated as 4 5 13 4 13. | ||
It also offers ''many'' possible [[pentatonic]] scales, including the [[2L 3s]] mos (which is 9 7 7 9 7). [[Slendro]] can be approximated using that scale or using something like the [[quasi-equal]] 8 8 8 8 7 or 8 8 7 8 8. | |||
One expressive [[pentatonic]] scale is the oneirotonic subset 9 6 9 9 6. | |||
Many Asian{{clarify|which ones specifically}} and [[African music|African]] {{clarify|which ones specifically}} musical styles can thus be accommodated. | |||
== Instruments == | == Instruments == | ||
=== Lumatone mapping === | |||
See [[Lumatone mapping for 39edo]] | |||
=== Skip fretting === | |||
'''Skip fretting system 39 2 5''' is a [[skip-fretting]] system for [[39edo]]. All examples on this page are for 7-string [[Guitar|guitar.]] | |||
; Prime harmonics | |||
1/1: string 2 open | |||
2/1: string 5 fret 12 and string 7 fret 7 | |||
3/2: string 3 fret 9 and string 5 fret 4 | |||
5/4: string 1 fret 9 and string 3 fret 4 | |||
7/4: string 5 fret 8 and string 7 fret 3 | |||
11/8: string 2 fret 9 and string 4 fret 4 | |||
=== Prototypes === | === Prototypes === | ||
[[File:TECLADO_39-EDD.PNG|alt=TECLADO 39-EDD.PNG|800x467px|TECLADO 39-EDD.PNG]] | [[File:TECLADO_39-EDD.PNG|alt=TECLADO 39-EDD.PNG|800x467px|TECLADO 39-EDD.PNG]] | ||
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''39edo fretboard visualization'' | ''39edo fretboard visualization'' | ||
== | == Music == | ||
; [[Bryan Deister]] | |||
* [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oeFI957W-xg ''39edo''] (2023) | |||
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLRaG_pBN7k ''39edo jam''] (2025) | |||
* [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4y11CWLIHNA ''Sinner's Finale - Genshin Impact (microtonal cover in 39edo)''] (2025) | |||
; [[Randy Wells]] | ; [[Randy Wells]] | ||
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9wQV1J5eLE ''Romance On Other Planets''] (2021) | * [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9wQV1J5eLE ''Romance On Other Planets''] (2021) | ||
[[Category:Listen]] | [[Category:Listen]] |