How to make a Kite Guitar: Difference between revisions

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If the fretwire is somewhat tall, that aids microbending to sharpen the downmajor 3rds, because one can simply squeeze those notes harder. Taller frets also prolong the life of the frets, since repeated fret leveling over the years wears them down.

Two possibilities are [https://jescarmusic.com/products/jescar-fret-wire-50078 Jescar FW50078] (.078X.050) and [https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/materials/fretwire/stewmac-medium-fretwire/ Stew-Mac Medium/Highest #0155] (.080x.050).

===Replacing each fret vs. replacing the entire fretboard===

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|0.032"

|}

Removing the entire fretboard also has the advantage that you can get a pre-slotted computer-cut fretboard fairly cheaply that has extremely accurate slot placement (see [[How to make a Kite Guitar#Fret%20Placement|Fret Placement]] below).

Removing the entire fretboard also has the advantage that you can get a pre-slotted computer-cut fretboard fairly cheaply that has extremely accurate slot placement (see [[How to make a Kite Guitar#Fret%20Placement|Fret Placement]] below). Before removing the old fretboard from an acoustic or classical guitar, see [[How to make a Kite Guitar#Method #1|Fretboard placement Method #1]] below.

==Fret placement==

On a standard guitar, the nth fret is SL * (1 - 2^(-n/12)) from the nut, where SL is the scale length. On a Kite guitar, for an even-fret layout, it's SL * (1 - 4^(-n/41)). In other words, simply replace the 12th root of 2 with the 41st root of 4. For the a-fret, use n = 0.5. The b-fret is 1.5, the c-fret is 2.5, etc. Or use this LibreOffice spreadsheet:

On a standard guitar, the nth fret is SL * (1 - 2^(-n/12)) from the nut, where SL is the scale length. On a Kite guitar, for an even-fret layout, it's SL * (1 - 4^(-n/41)). In other words, simply replace the 12th root of 2 with the 41st root of 4. (4 not 2 because it's 41 frets per ''double'' octave, which has [[frequency ratio]] 4/1 not 2/1.) For the a-fret, use n = 0.5. The b-fret is 1.5, the c-fret is 2.5, etc. Or use this LibreOffice spreadsheet:

[https://en.xen.wiki/images/5/55/KiteGuitarFret%26DotPlacementCalculator.ods.zip KiteGuitarFret&DotPlacementCalculator.ods.zip]

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The spreadsheet also has formulas to locate the fret markers aka dots (see the next section).

Various suppliers can make pre-slotted fingerboards complete with radius, taper and inlays. All you need to do is glue it on and put in the frets. ~~All~~ of these suppliers have made Kite guitar fretboards:

Various suppliers can make pre-slotted fingerboards complete with radius, taper and inlays. All you need to do is glue it on and put in the frets. [https://KiteGuitar.com KiteGuitar.com] often has fretboards in stock. Furthermore, all of these suppliers have made Kite guitar fretboards:

*[http://kozmguitars.com/ KOZM Guitars] (Oregon)

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* half-round dental clasp wire

*tangless fretwire meant for [[wikipedia:Parker_Guitars|Parker guitars]]

*tangless fretwire from [https://sintoms.com/en/frets-and-tools-for-frets-production/frets-production/microtonal-frets/ Sintoms.com]

*[https://Fretlet.com fretlets] from John Schneider

*short sections of an old guitar string (good for a radiused fretboard)

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* [https://byjasco.com/power-gear-plastic-cable-ties-8in-100pk-clear-0 byjasco.com/power-gear-plastic-cable-ties-8in-100pk-clear-0] (long and narrow, but can't take much tension)

The little box that you feed the end of the cable tie through tends to get in the way of playing. If you never fret with your thumb, you might want to position the boxes along the bass edge of the fretboard. Or you can position them in the middle of the neck (pictured below). After you install a cable tie, clip off the "tail" with a nail clipper, as close to the box as you possibly can. Install the cable tie for the highest fret first. Tighten it around the narrower part of the neck, then push it up to the wider part, using the neck's taper to get an extremely snug fit. To tighten the last few cable ties, grab the tail with needlenose pliers, as close to the box as you can, with the pliers perpendicular to the tail. Then for maximum leverage, tighten using a twisting motion, rotating the pliers along its long axis, ~~as if you were trying to wrap~~ the tail around the needlenose. Finally, you can shove the clipped-off tails from the other frets under those last few cable ties. Once they are all installed, cover the back of the neck with a few layers of painter's tape to make them more comfortable and less likely to slip out of position.

The little box that you feed the end of the cable tie through tends to get in the way of playing. If you never fret with your thumb, you might want to position the boxes along the bass edge of the fretboard. Or you can position them in the middle of the neck (pictured below). After you install a cable tie, clip off the "tail" with a nail clipper, as close to the box as you possibly can. Install the cable tie for the highest fret first. Tighten it around the narrower part of the neck, then push it up to the wider part, using the neck's taper to get an extremely snug fit. To tighten the last few cable ties, grab the tail with needlenose pliers, as close to the box as you can, with the pliers perpendicular to the tail. Then for maximum leverage, tighten using a twisting motion, rotating the pliers along its long axis, wrapping the tail around the needlenose. Finally, you can shove the clipped-off tails from the other frets under those last few cable ties. Once they are all installed, cover the back of the neck with a few layers of painter's tape to make them more comfortable and less likely to slip out of position.

[[File:Cable-tie frets.jpg|left|thumb|340x340px]]

[[File:Cable-tie frets after covering.jpg|none|thumb|335x335px]]

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|25.5"

|^^F

|24.4 26.0 30.3p 24w 28 33 40<br>high 3 strings in mm: 62 66 77

|24.4 26.0 30.3p 24w 28 33 40 48<br>high 3 strings in mm: 62 66 77

|

|high 3: Savarez KF<br>low 4: Silverwound

|high 3: Savarez KF<br>low 5: Silverwound

|}

== Fretboard removal ==

Before removing the old fretboard from an acoustic or classical guitar, see [[How to make a Kite Guitar#Method #1|Fretboard placement Method #1]] below.

If the old fretboard is glued on, apply heat and use a putty knife. Go very slowly to avoid damaging the neck. The whole process often takes an hour or two.

If the old fretboard is epoxied on, you may prefer to grind it off using a router. Remove all the old frets first. For an electric, remove the neck from the body first.

==Fretboard placement ==

When building a guitar, the bridge is positioned relative to the fretboard. When converting a guitar, ~~it's crucial to place~~ the fretboard ~~accurately~~ relative to the bridge. This process is like saddle compensation, but instead of moving the saddle points back and forth, one moves the entire fretboard back and forth.

When building a guitar, the bridge/saddle is positioned relative to the fretboard. When converting a guitar, the fretboard is positioned relative to the bridge/saddle. This process is like saddle compensation, but instead of moving the saddle points back and forth, one moves the entire fretboard back and forth.

On an electric guitar, the saddle points are adjustable, so the fretboard placement need be only roughly correct. But on an acoustic or classical guitar, it's crucial to place the fretboard accurately.

When gluing on the fretboard, unless it's an electric, be sure to use locator pins! This is a standard (non-microtonal) luthier practice, google "fretboard locator pins". With the fretboard clamped onto the neck, drill two (some suggest three or four) 1/16" guide holes through the fretboard and partway into the neck, to position the neck during glue-up. Drill the holes in the fret slots so that the frets will hide the holes. Drill on either side of the fretboard to avoid the truss rod. Drill one hole at the first fret slot and the other near the top of the neck. Do not drill into the body. Unclamp the fretboard and put 1/16" locating pins in the guide holes to position the fretboard exactly. If the fretboard wood is extremely oily (such as padauk wood), first treat it with acetone. Glue the fretboard on using ordinary [[wikipedia:Polyvinyl_acetate|woodworker's glue]]. Once the glue is dry, carefully remove the locator pins. Do one final levelling on the fretboard along each string path, then install the frets.

~~One method~~: ~~first put~~ the frets on the fretboard. Then clamp it to the neck using narrow wooden blocks that won't interfere with the strings. Then string it up, test the intonation, and adjust the fretboard placement as needed (see below). Finally, mark the correct position, remove the strings, and glue down the fretboard.

=== Method #1 ===

Before removing the old fretboard, check the intonation. Assuming it's on, mark the location of the old (12edo) 7th fret on both sides of the neck. Do the same with the old 17th fret by putting tape on the guitar body on both sides of the fretboard. We'll be using these 4 guide marks to place the new (41edo) fretboard.

If the intonation is off, use a formula to convert the error in cents to an error in millimeters or inches. This formula is given in the section below on saddle compensation. We're doing saddle compensation in reverse: rather than moving the saddle points, we're moving the guide marks.

Remove the old fretboard. Use the guide marks to position the new fretboard, which at this point has no frets in it. The new 12th fret slot will be only 2.5¢ closer to the soundhole than the old 7th fret. And the new 29th fret slot will be 2.5¢ further from the soundhole than the old 17th fret. That 2.5¢ distance will be almost twice as large for the new 12th fret as for the new 29th fret (almost twice because a 34\41 minor 7th is almost an octave). So eyeball the marks and the fret slots until it looks right on both sides of the neck/body.

=== Method #2 ===

Remove the old fretboard. Put the frets on the new fretboard. Then clamp it to the neck using narrow wooden blocks that won't interfere with the strings. Then string it up, test the intonation, and adjust the fretboard placement as needed (see below). Finally, mark the correct position, remove the strings, and glue down the fretboard.

But many luthiers prefer to install the frets after the fretboard is attached, so that they can do one final levelling on the fretboard along each string path. If so, only install those frets needed for intonation. After gluing down the fretboard, remove those few frets, level, and then install all the frets.

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[[File:Positioning a Kite Guitar fretboard -2.jpg|thumb|alt=|none]]

Always install at least two frets, because the nut might need compensation (see below), and can't be trusted yet. One might use frets 1 and 13 to get a fifth, or frets 0.5 (the a-fret) and 21 to get an octave. Or one might install 3 or 4 frets, for safety. Check the tuning at all the frets and all the strings, using Method #2 below. Then place the fretboard

Always install at least two frets, because the nut might need compensation (see below), and can't be trusted yet. One might use frets 1 and 13 to get a fifth, or frets 0.5 (the a-fret) and 21 to get an octave. Or one might install 3 or 4 frets, for safety. Check the tuning at all the frets and all the strings, using Method #2 below. Then place the fretboard.

==Saddle and nut compensation ==

Since the Kite guitar is so much more in tune than a 12-equal guitar, extra care should be taken with compensation. On an electric guitar, one can simply dial in the correct saddle compensation. On an acoustic or ~~nylon~~, one must file the saddle.

Since the Kite guitar is so much more in tune than a 12-equal guitar, extra care should be taken with compensation. On an electric guitar, one can simply dial in the correct saddle compensation. On an acoustic or classical, one must file the saddle. Or one can make the saddle points adjustable. Widen the saddle slot by about 1/8" or 1/4". Cut the saddle into sections, one per string. Shim each saddle section individually in front and/or in back to place it properly.

[[File:Closeup of adjustable saddle points on a classical guitar.jpg|none|thumb|adjustable saddle points on a classical guitar]]

[[File:Closeup of adjustable saddle points on a classical guitar 2.jpg|none|thumb|adjustable saddle points on a classical guitar]]

===Short answer===

For each string, match the 41st fret harmonic exactly with the fretted note, using a tuner. You can also match the 12th fret harmonic with the 12th fret note, which will be 1 octave lower. (To be precise, the fretted note should be half a cent sharper than the harmonic.) Ideally check at both the 12th and 41st frets, and split the difference to get both as in tune as possible.

You could instead simply check various fretted notes against the tuner. Every 4th note (i.e. every fret marker) should suffice.

===Long answer===

@@ Line 281: / Line 281: @@
 If the fretwire is somewhat tall, that aids microbending to sharpen the downmajor 3rds, because one can simply squeeze those notes harder. Taller frets also prolong the life of the frets, since repeated fret leveling over the years wears them down.
+Two possibilities are [https://jescarmusic.com/products/jescar-fret-wire-50078 Jescar FW50078] (.078X.050) and [https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/materials/fretwire/stewmac-medium-fretwire/ Stew-Mac Medium/Highest #0155] (.080x.050).
 ===Replacing each fret vs. replacing the entire fretboard===
@@ Line 318: / Line 320: @@
 |0.032"
 |}
-Removing the entire fretboard also has the advantage that you can get a pre-slotted computer-cut fretboard fairly cheaply that has extremely accurate slot placement (see [[How to make a Kite Guitar#Fret%20Placement|Fret Placement]] below).
+Removing the entire fretboard also has the advantage that you can get a pre-slotted computer-cut fretboard fairly cheaply that has extremely accurate slot placement (see [[How to make a Kite Guitar#Fret%20Placement|Fret Placement]] below). Before removing the old fretboard from an acoustic or classical guitar, see [[How to make a Kite Guitar#Method #1|Fretboard placement Method #1]] below.
 ==Fret placement==
-On a standard guitar, the nth fret is SL * (1 - 2^(-n/12)) from the nut, where SL is the scale length. On a Kite guitar, for an even-fret layout, it's SL * (1 - 4^(-n/41)). In other words, simply replace the 12th root of 2 with the 41st root of 4. For the a-fret, use n = 0.5. The b-fret is 1.5, the c-fret is 2.5, etc. Or use this LibreOffice spreadsheet:
+On a standard guitar, the nth fret is SL * (1 - 2^(-n/12)) from the nut, where SL is the scale length. On a Kite guitar, for an even-fret layout, it's SL * (1 - 4^(-n/41)). In other words, simply replace the 12th root of 2 with the 41st root of 4. (4 not 2 because it's 41 frets per ''double'' octave, which has [[frequency ratio]] 4/1 not 2/1.) For the a-fret, use n = 0.5. The b-fret is 1.5, the c-fret is 2.5, etc. Or use this LibreOffice spreadsheet:
 [https://en.xen.wiki/images/5/55/KiteGuitarFret%26DotPlacementCalculator.ods.zip KiteGuitarFret&DotPlacementCalculator.ods.zip]
@@ Line 327: / Line 329: @@
 The spreadsheet also has formulas to locate the fret markers aka dots (see the next section).
-Various suppliers can make pre-slotted fingerboards complete with radius, taper and inlays. All you need to do is glue it on and put in the frets. All of these suppliers have made Kite guitar fretboards:
+Various suppliers can make pre-slotted fingerboards complete with radius, taper and inlays. All you need to do is glue it on and put in the frets. [https://KiteGuitar.com KiteGuitar.com] often has fretboards in stock. Furthermore, all of these suppliers have made Kite guitar fretboards:
 *[http://kozmguitars.com/ KOZM Guitars] (Oregon)
@@ Line 376: / Line 378: @@
 * half-round dental clasp wire
 *tangless fretwire meant for [[wikipedia:Parker_Guitars|Parker guitars]]
+*tangless fretwire from [https://sintoms.com/en/frets-and-tools-for-frets-production/frets-production/microtonal-frets/ Sintoms.com]
 *[https://Fretlet.com fretlets] from John Schneider
 *short sections of an old guitar string (good for a radiused fretboard)
@@ Line 391: / Line 394: @@
 * [https://byjasco.com/power-gear-plastic-cable-ties-8in-100pk-clear-0 byjasco.com/power-gear-plastic-cable-ties-8in-100pk-clear-0] (long and narrow, but can't take much tension)
-The little box that you feed the end of the cable tie through tends to get in the way of playing. If you never fret with your thumb, you might want to position the boxes along the bass edge of the fretboard. Or you can position them in the middle of the neck (pictured below). After you install a cable tie, clip off the "tail" with a nail clipper, as close to the box as you possibly can. Install the cable tie for the highest fret first. Tighten it around the narrower part of the neck, then push it up to the wider part, using the neck's taper to get an extremely snug fit. To tighten the last few cable ties, grab the tail with needlenose pliers, as close to the box as you can, with the pliers perpendicular to the tail. Then for maximum leverage, tighten using a twisting motion, rotating the pliers along its long axis, as if you were trying to wrap the tail around the needlenose. Finally, you can shove the clipped-off tails from the other frets under those last few cable ties. Once they are all installed, cover the back of the neck with a few layers of painter's tape to make them more comfortable and less likely to slip out of position.
+The little box that you feed the end of the cable tie through tends to get in the way of playing. If you never fret with your thumb, you might want to position the boxes along the bass edge of the fretboard. Or you can position them in the middle of the neck (pictured below). After you install a cable tie, clip off the "tail" with a nail clipper, as close to the box as you possibly can. Install the cable tie for the highest fret first. Tighten it around the narrower part of the neck, then push it up to the wider part, using the neck's taper to get an extremely snug fit. To tighten the last few cable ties, grab the tail with needlenose pliers, as close to the box as you can, with the pliers perpendicular to the tail. Then for maximum leverage, tighten using a twisting motion, rotating the pliers along its long axis, wrapping the tail around the needlenose. Finally, you can shove the clipped-off tails from the other frets under those last few cable ties. Once they are all installed, cover the back of the neck with a few layers of painter's tape to make them more comfortable and less likely to slip out of position.
 [[File:Cable-tie frets.jpg|left|thumb|340x340px]]
 [[File:Cable-tie frets after covering.jpg|none|thumb|335x335px]]
@@ Line 464: / Line 467: @@
 |25.5"
 |^^F
-|24.4 26.0 30.3p 24w 28 33 40<br>high 3 strings in mm: 62 66 77
+|24.4 26.0 30.3p 24w 28 33 40 48<br>high 3 strings in mm: 62 66 77
 |
-|high 3: Savarez KF<br>low 4: Silverwound
+|high 3: Savarez KF<br>low 5: Silverwound
 |}
+== Fretboard removal ==
+Before removing the old fretboard from an acoustic or classical guitar, see [[How to make a Kite Guitar#Method #1|Fretboard placement Method #1]] below.
+If the old fretboard is glued on, apply heat and use a putty knife. Go very slowly to avoid damaging the neck. The whole process often takes an hour or two.
+If the old fretboard is epoxied on, you may prefer to grind it off using a router. Remove all the old frets first. For an electric, remove the neck from the body first.
 ==Fretboard placement ==
-When building a guitar, the bridge is positioned relative to the fretboard. When converting a guitar, it's crucial to place the fretboard accurately relative to the bridge. This process is like saddle compensation, but instead of moving the saddle points back and forth, one moves the entire fretboard back and forth.
+When building a guitar, the bridge/saddle is positioned relative to the fretboard. When converting a guitar, the fretboard is positioned relative to the bridge/saddle. This process is like saddle compensation, but instead of moving the saddle points back and forth, one moves the entire fretboard back and forth.
+On an electric guitar, the saddle points are adjustable, so the fretboard placement need be only roughly correct. But on an acoustic or classical guitar, it's crucial to place the fretboard accurately.
+When gluing on the fretboard, unless it's an electric, be sure to use locator pins! This is a standard (non-microtonal) luthier practice, google "fretboard locator pins". With the fretboard clamped onto the neck, drill two (some suggest three or four) 1/16" guide holes through the fretboard and partway into the neck, to position the neck during glue-up. Drill the holes in the fret slots so that the frets will hide the holes. Drill on either side of the fretboard to avoid the truss rod. Drill one hole at the first fret slot and the other near the top of the neck. Do not drill into the body. Unclamp the fretboard and put 1/16" locating pins in the guide holes to position the fretboard exactly. If the fretboard wood is extremely oily (such as padauk wood), first treat it with acetone. Glue the fretboard on using ordinary [[wikipedia:Polyvinyl_acetate|woodworker's glue]]. Once the glue is dry, carefully remove the locator pins. Do one final levelling on the fretboard along each string path, then install the frets.
-One method: first put the frets on the fretboard. Then clamp it to the neck using narrow wooden blocks that won't interfere with the strings. Then string it up, test the intonation, and adjust the fretboard placement as needed (see below). Finally, mark the correct position, remove the strings, and glue down the fretboard.
+=== Method #1 ===
+Before removing the old fretboard, check the intonation. Assuming it's on, mark the location of the old (12edo) 7th fret on both sides of the neck. Do the same with the old 17th fret by putting tape on the guitar body on both sides of the fretboard. We'll be using these 4 guide marks to place the new (41edo) fretboard.
+If the intonation is off, use a formula to convert the error in cents to an error in millimeters or inches. This formula is given in the section below on saddle compensation. We're doing saddle compensation in reverse: rather than moving the saddle points, we're moving the guide marks.
+Remove the old fretboard. Use the guide marks to position the new fretboard, which at this point has no frets in it. The new 12th fret slot will be only 2.5¢ closer to the soundhole than the old 7th fret. And the new 29th fret slot will be 2.5¢ further from the soundhole than the old 17th fret. That 2.5¢ distance will be almost twice as large for the new 12th fret as for the new 29th fret (almost twice because a 34\41 minor 7th is almost an octave). So eyeball the marks and the fret slots until it looks right on both sides of the neck/body.
+=== Method #2 ===
+Remove the old fretboard. Put the frets on the new fretboard. Then clamp it to the neck using narrow wooden blocks that won't interfere with the strings. Then string it up, test the intonation, and adjust the fretboard placement as needed (see below). Finally, mark the correct position, remove the strings, and glue down the fretboard.
 But many luthiers prefer to install the frets after the fretboard is attached, so that they can do one final levelling on the fretboard along each string path. If so, only install those frets needed for intonation. After gluing down the fretboard, remove those few frets, level, and then install all the frets.
@@ Line 481: / Line 503: @@
 [[File:Positioning a Kite Guitar fretboard -2.jpg|thumb|alt=|none]]
-Always install at least two frets, because the nut might need compensation (see below), and can't be trusted yet. One might use frets 1 and 13 to get a fifth, or frets 0.5 (the a-fret) and 21 to get an octave. Or one might install 3 or 4 frets, for safety. Check the tuning at all the frets and all the strings, using Method #2 below. Then place the fretboard
+Always install at least two frets, because the nut might need compensation (see below), and can't be trusted yet. One might use frets 1 and 13 to get a fifth, or frets 0.5 (the a-fret) and 21 to get an octave. Or one might install 3 or 4 frets, for safety. Check the tuning at all the frets and all the strings, using Method #2 below. Then place the fretboard.
 ==Saddle and nut compensation ==
-Since the Kite guitar is so much more in tune than a 12-equal guitar, extra care should be taken with compensation. On an electric guitar, one can simply dial in the correct saddle compensation. On an acoustic or nylon, one must file the saddle.
+Since the Kite guitar is so much more in tune than a 12-equal guitar, extra care should be taken with compensation. On an electric guitar, one can simply dial in the correct saddle compensation. On an acoustic or classical, one must file the saddle. Or one can make the saddle points adjustable. Widen the saddle slot by about 1/8" or 1/4". Cut the saddle into sections, one per string. Shim each saddle section individually in front and/or in back to place it properly.
+[[File:Closeup of adjustable saddle points on a classical guitar.jpg|none|thumb|adjustable saddle points on a classical guitar]]
+[[File:Closeup of adjustable saddle points on a classical guitar 2.jpg|none|thumb|adjustable saddle points on a classical guitar]]
 ===Short answer===
 For each string, match the 41st fret harmonic exactly with the fretted note, using a tuner. You can also match the 12th fret harmonic with the 12th fret note, which will be 1 octave lower. (To be precise, the fretted note should be half a cent sharper than the harmonic.) Ideally check at both the 12th and 41st frets, and split the difference to get both as in tune as possible.
+You could instead simply check various fretted notes against the tuner. Every 4th note (i.e. every fret marker) should suffice.
 ===Long answer===