User talk:Rperlner: Difference between revisions

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::::::::::::::: I see why you like Bach's little fugue in G then. Very long and very tonally stable subject. It leans pretty heavily on the dominant and the raised leading tone to get this effect, so it's not obvious how to do something like that in Locrian. Speaking of Locrian, I think it is possible to have the answer be a transposition up a perfect 5th of the subject, as is common for fugues based on other modes, but up a 4th is certainly easier and it's what I did for my Locrian fugue. (I had the for voices entering on B, E, D and B respectively.) --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 15:50, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::: I do know that while Locrian mode doesn't have a perfect fifth above the Tonic, and thus cannot resort to establishing Tonality in those more typical fashions, it does have access to Minor's lowered seventh scale degree, the Subtonic, which not only acts as the melodic anchor in place of a proper Dominant but also establishes tonality through a sort of "back door"- all due to the parallel relationship between a Dominant and a Subtonic. This is why the Tyrant chord must include some iteration of its third, because the third of the Tyrant chord is the lowered seventh scale degree, and can thus establish tonality through the aforementioned mechanism. A cantus firmus in Locrian must rely heavily on the lowered seventh scale for much the same reason, and at the same time, since a flat fifth without the backing of the lowered seventh has a way of negating tonality, the flat fifth must be avoided in the cantus firmus, but can be unlocked for counterpointed melodies. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 19:47, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::: I do know that while Locrian mode doesn't have a perfect fifth above the Tonic, and thus cannot resort to establishing Tonality in those more typical fashions, it does have access to Minor's lowered seventh scale degree, the Subtonic, which not only acts as the melodic anchor in place of a proper Dominant but also establishes tonality through a sort of "back door"- all due to the parallel relationship between a Dominant and a Subtonic. This is why the Tyrant chord must include some iteration of its third, because the third of the Tyrant chord is the lowered seventh scale degree, and can thus establish tonality through the aforementioned mechanism. A cantus firmus in Locrian must rely heavily on the lowered seventh scale for much the same reason, and at the same time, since a flat fifth without the backing of the lowered seventh has a way of negating tonality, the flat fifth must be avoided in the cantus firmus, but can be unlocked for counterpointed melodies. Finally, I must also point out that the Subtonic is the Serviant of the Serviant in much the same way that a Supertonic is the Dominant of the Dominant, so that means that the Subtonic is very easy to hit from a chord progression standpoint. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

:::::::: I just had a thought... Since the wolf fifth is a different interval from the perfect fifth with different properties, perhaps a succession of chords in root position such as the sequence G-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2), A-Wolf-Minor (1/1-32/27-40/27), B-Diminished (1/1-6/5-32/27), C-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2) in the key of C-Major could potentially be allowed in non-meantone settings, seeing as it seems to be that only two successive chords with parallel perfect fifths or octaves lead to the loss of independence among the different voices. Do you think this is a viable technique for things like fugues? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

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 ::::::::::::::: I see why you like Bach's little fugue in G then. Very long and very tonally stable subject. It leans pretty heavily on the dominant and the raised leading tone to get this effect, so it's not obvious how to do something like that in Locrian. Speaking of Locrian, I think it is possible to have the answer be a transposition up a perfect 5th of the subject, as is common for fugues based on other modes, but up a 4th is certainly easier and it's what I did for my Locrian fugue. (I had the for voices entering on B, E, D and B respectively.) --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 15:50, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::::::::::: I do know that while Locrian mode doesn't have a perfect fifth above the Tonic, and thus cannot resort to establishing Tonality in those more typical fashions, it does have access to Minor's lowered seventh scale degree, the Subtonic, which not only acts as the melodic anchor in place of a proper Dominant but also establishes tonality through a sort of "back door"- all due to the parallel relationship between a Dominant and a Subtonic.  This is why the Tyrant chord must include some iteration of its third, because the third of the Tyrant chord is the lowered seventh scale degree, and can thus establish tonality through the aforementioned mechanism.  A cantus firmus in Locrian must rely heavily on the lowered seventh scale for much the same reason, and at the same time, since a flat fifth without the backing of the lowered seventh has a way of negating tonality, the flat fifth must be avoided in the cantus firmus, but can be unlocked for counterpointed melodies. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 19:47, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
+:::::::::::::::: I do know that while Locrian mode doesn't have a perfect fifth above the Tonic, and thus cannot resort to establishing Tonality in those more typical fashions, it does have access to Minor's lowered seventh scale degree, the Subtonic, which not only acts as the melodic anchor in place of a proper Dominant but also establishes tonality through a sort of "back door"- all due to the parallel relationship between a Dominant and a Subtonic.  This is why the Tyrant chord must include some iteration of its third, because the third of the Tyrant chord is the lowered seventh scale degree, and can thus establish tonality through the aforementioned mechanism.  A cantus firmus in Locrian must rely heavily on the lowered seventh scale for much the same reason, and at the same time, since a flat fifth without the backing of the lowered seventh has a way of negating tonality, the flat fifth must be avoided in the cantus firmus, but can be unlocked for counterpointed melodies.  Finally, I must also point out that the Subtonic is the Serviant of the Serviant in much the same way that a Supertonic is the Dominant of the Dominant, so that means that the Subtonic is very easy to hit from a chord progression standpoint. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 20:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
 :::::::: I just had a thought...  Since the wolf fifth is a different interval from the perfect fifth with different properties, perhaps a succession of chords in root position such as the sequence G-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2), A-Wolf-Minor (1/1-32/27-40/27), B-Diminished (1/1-6/5-32/27), C-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2) in the key of C-Major could potentially be allowed in non-meantone settings, seeing as it seems to be that only two successive chords with parallel perfect fifths or octaves lead to the loss of independence among the different voices.  Do you think this is a viable technique for things like fugues? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)