User talk:Francium: Difference between revisions

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::: Okay, I see your point. I just got into exploring rank-2 temperaments (and tunings) back then. I thought that all "temperaments" on the list were actual temperaments, hence the title. So, I experimented with these, guilliable enough to believe that they were right, but at the time you were pointing out, that 1051edo wouldn't support Edson in an obvious way, I thought about changing my way in exploring rank-2 temperaments. Also I dropped the "temperament" thing, because the EP name was getting too long for me. I just changed the name of the Tibrepyt Temperament EP to "Tibrepyt". I will change the Bandcamp links, since they are now broken (nvm, they weren't mentioned). And the thing on Spotify is, that the EP is in review again. --[[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 09:31, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

:::: I'm trying to make sense of the tunings of your 5 tuning exploration EPs and I'd be very happy if you happen to remember or can check what were the MOS sizes and the main intervals you used in each EP, if you even thought of it this way. Specifically:

~~::::* In the gross temperament EP, did you have a large enough MOS to have the good 3/2 and 5/4 approximations (and perhaps even a major scale)?~~

::::* The tiberpyt generator looks really close to the 75edo fifth. Did you have more than 75 notes in your MOS sales or is it essentially a detuning of (a subscale of) 75edo? Which intervals except for the generator did you gravitate towards? (Pythagoean/schismic/75edo-like/other minor and major thirds, and similarly if you can identify approximations of higher limit intervals you used)

::::* In the helayo EP, does it make more sense to view the scale as a [[hemimeantone]] scale, with a heavy use of the major and minor thirds of -8 and 6 generators respectively and more complex even-generator-count intervals approximating 7- and possibly 11-limit ratios, and also possibly odd-generator-count harmonic intervals that can be interpreted as approximating higher limit ratios, does it make more sense viewing it as what is now called [[helayo]], with harmonic use of the generator as approximating 8/7, 7/6 or both, and with heavy use of the major and minor thirds of 11 and -13 generators respectively, or did you use some combination of the two e.g. using a -8-generator major third and a 1-generator 8/7 as in [[godzilla]], or both the -8 and 11 generator major thirds and what can be interpreted as several contradicting approximations of the 7th harmonic which looks more like a detuned 19-edo? Did you use a MOS with more than 19 notes?

::::* In the edson EP, did you avoid hinting at intervals that aren't in the 2.3.7/5.11/5.13/5 subgroup or is the music more easily interpreted as using a more intuitive tuning such as [[andromeda]] or some tuning from the [[meantone family]]? Did you use more than 29 notes or is it essentially a detuning of 29edo?

::::* In the hemischis EP did you use more than 53 notes or is it essentially a detuning of 53- or 24-edo? Did you use [[hemischis|hemischis's]] 7-limit intervals or other ones of the 11, 13 and 17 limit and the schismic major third, or did you essentially use some other schismic or [[Semaphoresmic clan|semaphore]] temperament?

:::: Sorry for the disturbance and the hard and potentially disrespectful questions. I don't mean to insult or disrespect you, just to make sure that the temperaments listed at the EP titles indeed represent the music in them. Thanks! [[User:Roeesi|Roeesi]] ([[User talk:Roeesi|talk]]) 13:55, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

== Note about pulling comma bases from the temperament finder ==

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Okay, sounds good. [[User:MisterShafXen|MisterShafXen]] ([[User talk:MisterShafXen|talk]]) 19:48, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

== Tuning exploration EPs ==

I'm trying to make sense of the tunings of your 5 tuning exploration EPs and I'd be very happy if you happen to remember or can check what were the MOS sizes and the main intervals you used in each EP, if you even thought of it this way. Specifically:

* In the gross temperament EP, did you have a large enough MOS to have the good 3/2 and 5/4 approximations (and perhaps even a major scale)?

* The tiberpyt generator looks really close to the 75edo fifth. Did you have more than 75 notes in your MOS sales or is it essentially a detuning of (a subscale of) 75edo? Which intervals except for the generator did you gravitate towards? (Pythagoean/schismic/75edo-like/other minor and major thirds, and similarly if you can identify approximations of higher limit intervals you used)

* In the helayo EP, does it make more sense to view the scale as a [[hemimeantone]] scale, with a heavy use of the major and minor thirds of -8 and 6 generators respectively and more complex even-generator-count intervals approximating 7- and possibly 11-limit ratios, and also possibly odd-generator-count harmonic intervals that can be interpreted as approximating higher limit ratios, does it make more sense viewing it as what is now called [[helayo]], with harmonic use of the generator as approximating 8/7, 7/6 or both, and with heavy use of the major and minor thirds of 11 and -13 generators respectively, or did you use some combination of the two e.g. using a -8-generator major third and a 1-generator 8/7 as in [[godzilla]], or both the -8 and 11 generator major thirds and what can be interpreted as several contradicting approximations of the 7th harmonic which looks more like a detuned 19-edo? Did you use a MOS with more than 19 notes?

* In the edson EP, did you avoid hinting at intervals that aren't in the 2.3.7/5.11/5.13/5 subgroup or is the music more easily interpreted as using a more intuitive tuning such as [[andromeda]] or some tuning from the [[meantone family]]? Did you use more than 29 notes or is it essentially a detuning of 29edo?

* In the hemischis EP did you use more than 53 notes or is it essentially a detuning of 53- or 24-edo? Did you use [[hemischis|hemischis's]] 7-limit intervals or other ones of the 11, 13 and 17 limit and the schismic major third, or did you essentially use some other [[Schismatic family|schismatic]] or [[Semaphoresmic clan|semaphore]] temperament?

Sorry for the disturbance and the hard and potentially disrespectful questions. I don't mean to insult or disrespect you, just to make sure that the temperaments listed at the EP titles indeed represent the music in them. Thanks! [[User:Roeesi|Roeesi]] ([[User talk:Roeesi|talk]]) 13:55, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

:Hello Roeesi, first of all, I have moved your question into a new topic, since I haven't found it immediately and because you were asking about all temperament exploration EPs, not just the tibrepyt one (which in fact is rather a rank-2 tuning than a temperament). I must check all the MOS scales and how exactly I used them, since I don't remember what I did almost three years ago, since my style kinda evolved since then. Plus I can't respond your question all at once, I have to break this huge chunk up into little pieces (I hope that I have the energy to respond for one EP), thus I may need days to fully respond to your catalogue of questions.

:* Gross Temperament EP:

:** In "I Made A Gross Mistake" I used a 27-tone scale, the 3/2 approximation and the 5/4 approximation are rather bad (with 722.213 cents and 366.136 cents respectively). It sounds like I used a major scale, the intervals I gravitated to, were (in cents) 91.534, 173.009, 366.136, 447.611, 722.212 (which changes to 732.272 cents in the middle of the song for whatever reason in the strings, I guess I didn't realize that I made a mistake at that point), 905.281, 1200.000. Plus passing tones: 183.068, 356.077, 457.670, 539.145, 549.204, 630.679, 640.738, 1006.873, 1088.349, 1098.407. I tried to use a major scale, the underlying chords are C A Dm.

:** In "Gross Pattern" I used a 13-tone scale, so the approximation of 3/2 is even worse at 742.337 cents, the approximation of 5/4 stays the same at 366.130 cents. Plus I wrote the piece in C minor which the superminor third at 274.598 cents. [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 14:06, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

:* Tibrepyt EP: Both scales use less than 75 notes, so they could be interpreted as a subset of 75edo. So, I used 75edo's interval table and xen-calc for the interval analysis.

:** In "sleeping as we don't know", I used the chord progression F C Eb Bb Db Ab G C (approximately, for my ears the piece sounds like its in F# major). The intervals I used (if I put C in the center which I stupidly did) are (in cents plus explanation): 128 (14/13; 75edo's downmid 2nd), 208 (35/31; 75edo's major second), 336 (17/14; 75edo's downmid third), 416 (75edo's and pythagorean major third), 544 (26/19 or 37/27; 75edo's downmid fourth), 704 (generator), 832 (21/13 or 34/21; 75edo's downmid sixth), 912 (75edo's sixth), 1040 (31/17; 75edo's upminor seventh), 1120 (75edo's major seventh), 1200 (octave)

:** In "Stumbling Over Mystery" I gravitated towards following intervals (in cents plus explanation): 384 (5/4), 704 (generator), the other chord is just 48 cents (or a quartertone) upwards. [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 12:44, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

:* Helayo EP: The Helayo scale is actually a hemimeantone scale with some extensions (I am not an expert on color names), I just abbreviated the name badly.

:** In "way too random partying" I just used a major scale with 6/5 and 16/11 as passing tones. The MOS scale had 19 notes, so it also could be interpreted as detuned 19edo.

:** In "In The Black Hole" I used the scale 13/12 9/8 7/6 4/3 65/48 7/5 3/2 5/3 21/13 20/11 15/8 64/33 2/1. The MOS scale had 24 notes.

:** In "Happy Apocalypse!" the MOS scale had 14 notes. I used the scale 33/32 16/15 15/13 6/5 5/4 4/3 18/13 3/2 8/5 16/9 24/13 2/1. Basically a minor scale with 11- and 13-limit extensions. [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 15:23, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

:* Edson EP:

:** In "Silent Silence" I used a 17-tone scale, which could be interpreted as some detuning of 29edo. Since Edson is related to Pele and Andromeda, I don't remember what scale I was using. Plus I don't understand the fractions in the subgroup, so I can't tell which intervals I used.

:** In "you have to run!" I used a 29-tone scale, so it can be interpreted as detuned 29edo. Also here I unfortunately can't say which intervals I was using. [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 15:36, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

::Thanks! I understand that this may be hard so take your time, I can wait for some days. You gave me just what I wanted to know about the Gross Temperament EP, so if you can write more answers like this about the four other EPs this will be great! [[User:Roeesi|Roeesi]] ([[User talk:Roeesi|talk]]) 14:44, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

::I'm a little confused about the haleyo EP. How did you have access to these 11-limit intervals in MOS scales with 24 or less notes? Did you a different mapping for 11 which is not the one in the [[Meantone family#Hemimeantone]] paragraph? [[User:Roeesi|Roeesi]] ([[User talk:Roeesi|talk]]) 19:40, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

:::I don't know if my approximations were wrong, that would be my best guess. I don't know if you have better fitting approximations than me, the scala files are on the wiki, so you can take a look for yourself if you like :) [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 15:07, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 ::: Okay, I see your point. I just got into exploring rank-2 temperaments (and tunings) back then. I thought that all "temperaments" on the list were actual temperaments, hence the title. So, I experimented with these, guilliable enough to believe that they were right, but at the time you were pointing out, that 1051edo wouldn't support Edson in an obvious way, I thought about changing my way in exploring rank-2 temperaments. Also I dropped the "temperament" thing, because the EP name was getting too long for me. I just changed the name of the Tibrepyt Temperament EP to "Tibrepyt". I will change the Bandcamp links, since they are now broken (nvm, they weren't mentioned). And the thing on Spotify is, that the EP is in review again. --[[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 09:31, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
-:::: I'm trying to make sense of the tunings of your 5 tuning exploration EPs and I'd be very happy if you happen to remember or can check what were the MOS sizes and the main intervals you used in each EP, if you even thought of it this way. Specifically:
-::::* In the gross temperament EP, did you have a large enough MOS to have the good 3/2 and 5/4 approximations (and perhaps even a major scale)?
-::::* The tiberpyt generator looks really close to the 75edo fifth. Did you have more than 75 notes in your MOS sales or is it essentially a detuning of (a subscale of) 75edo? Which intervals except for the generator did you gravitate towards? (Pythagoean/schismic/75edo-like/other minor and major thirds, and similarly if you can identify approximations of higher limit intervals you used)
-::::* In the helayo EP, does it make more sense to view the scale as a [[hemimeantone]] scale, with a heavy use of the major and minor thirds of -8 and 6 generators respectively and more complex even-generator-count intervals approximating 7- and possibly 11-limit ratios, and also possibly odd-generator-count harmonic intervals that can be interpreted as approximating higher limit ratios, does it make more sense viewing it as what is now called [[helayo]], with harmonic use of the generator as approximating 8/7, 7/6 or both, and with heavy use of the major and minor thirds of 11 and -13 generators respectively, or did you use some combination of the two e.g. using a -8-generator major third and a 1-generator 8/7 as in [[godzilla]], or both the -8 and 11 generator major thirds and what can be interpreted as several contradicting approximations of the 7th harmonic which looks more like a detuned 19-edo? Did you use a MOS with more than 19 notes?
-::::* In the edson EP, did you avoid hinting at intervals that aren't in the 2.3.7/5.11/5.13/5 subgroup or is the music more easily interpreted as using a more intuitive tuning such as [[andromeda]] or some tuning from the [[meantone family]]? Did you use more than 29 notes or is it essentially a detuning of 29edo?
-::::* In the hemischis EP did you use more than 53 notes or is it essentially a detuning of 53- or 24-edo? Did you use [[hemischis|hemischis's]] 7-limit intervals or other ones of the 11, 13 and 17 limit and the schismic major third, or did you essentially use some other schismic or [[Semaphoresmic clan|semaphore]] temperament?
-:::: Sorry for the disturbance and the hard and potentially disrespectful questions. I don't mean to insult or disrespect you, just to make sure that the temperaments listed at the EP titles indeed represent the music in them. Thanks! [[User:Roeesi|Roeesi]] ([[User talk:Roeesi|talk]]) 13:55, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
 == Note about pulling comma bases from the temperament finder ==
@@ Line 52: / Line 44: @@
 Okay, sounds good. [[User:MisterShafXen|MisterShafXen]] ([[User talk:MisterShafXen|talk]]) 19:48, 19 August 2025 (UTC)
+== Tuning exploration EPs ==
+I'm trying to make sense of the tunings of your 5 tuning exploration EPs and I'd be very happy if you happen to remember or can check what were the MOS sizes and the main intervals you used in each EP, if you even thought of it this way. Specifically:
+* In the gross temperament EP, did you have a large enough MOS to have the good 3/2 and 5/4 approximations (and perhaps even a major scale)?
+* The tiberpyt generator looks really close to the 75edo fifth. Did you have more than 75 notes in your MOS sales or is it essentially a detuning of (a subscale of) 75edo? Which intervals except for the generator did you gravitate towards? (Pythagoean/schismic/75edo-like/other minor and major thirds, and similarly if you can identify approximations of higher limit intervals you used)
+* In the helayo EP, does it make more sense to view the scale as a [[hemimeantone]] scale, with a heavy use of the major and minor thirds of -8 and 6 generators respectively and more complex even-generator-count intervals approximating 7- and possibly 11-limit ratios, and also possibly odd-generator-count harmonic intervals that can be interpreted as approximating higher limit ratios, does it make more sense viewing it as what is now called [[helayo]], with harmonic use of the generator as approximating 8/7, 7/6 or both, and with heavy use of the major and minor thirds of 11 and -13 generators respectively, or did you use some combination of the two e.g. using a -8-generator major third and a 1-generator 8/7 as in [[godzilla]], or both the -8 and 11 generator major thirds and what can be interpreted as several contradicting approximations of the 7th harmonic which looks more like a detuned 19-edo? Did you use a MOS with more than 19 notes?
+* In the edson EP, did you avoid hinting at intervals that aren't in the 2.3.7/5.11/5.13/5 subgroup or is the music more easily interpreted as using a more intuitive tuning such as [[andromeda]] or some tuning from the [[meantone family]]? Did you use more than 29 notes or is it essentially a detuning of 29edo?
+* In the hemischis EP did you use more than 53 notes or is it essentially a detuning of 53- or 24-edo? Did you use [[hemischis|hemischis's]] 7-limit intervals or other ones of the 11, 13 and 17 limit and the schismic major third, or did you essentially use some other [[Schismatic family|schismatic]] or [[Semaphoresmic clan|semaphore]] temperament?
+Sorry for the disturbance and the hard and potentially disrespectful questions. I don't mean to insult or disrespect you, just to make sure that the temperaments listed at the EP titles indeed represent the music in them. Thanks! [[User:Roeesi|Roeesi]] ([[User talk:Roeesi|talk]]) 13:55, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
+:Hello Roeesi, first of all, I have moved your question into a new topic, since I haven't found it immediately and because you were asking about all temperament exploration EPs, not just the tibrepyt one (which in fact is rather a rank-2 tuning than a temperament). I must check all the MOS scales and how exactly I used them, since I don't remember what I did almost three years ago, since my style kinda evolved since then. Plus I can't respond your question all at once, I have to break this huge chunk up into little pieces (I hope that I have the energy to respond for one EP), thus I may need days to fully respond to your catalogue of questions.
+:* Gross Temperament EP:
+:** In "I Made A Gross Mistake" I used a 27-tone scale, the 3/2 approximation and the 5/4 approximation are rather bad (with 722.213 cents and 366.136 cents respectively). It sounds like I used a major scale, the intervals I gravitated to, were (in cents) 91.534, 173.009, 366.136, 447.611, 722.212 (which changes to 732.272 cents in the middle of the song for whatever reason in the strings, I guess I didn't realize that I made a mistake at that point), 905.281, 1200.000. Plus passing tones: 183.068, 356.077, 457.670, 539.145, 549.204, 630.679, 640.738, 1006.873, 1088.349, 1098.407. I tried to use a major scale, the underlying chords are C A Dm.
+:** In "Gross Pattern" I used a 13-tone scale, so the approximation of 3/2 is even worse at 742.337 cents, the approximation of 5/4 stays the same at 366.130 cents. Plus I wrote the piece in C minor which the superminor third at 274.598 cents. [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 14:06, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
+:* Tibrepyt EP: Both scales use less than 75 notes, so they could be interpreted as a subset of 75edo. So, I used 75edo's interval table and xen-calc for the interval analysis.
+:** In "sleeping as we don't know", I used the chord progression F C Eb Bb Db Ab G C (approximately, for my ears the piece sounds like its in F# major). The intervals I used (if I put C in the center which I stupidly did) are (in cents plus explanation): 128 (14/13; 75edo's downmid 2nd), 208 (35/31; 75edo's major second), 336 (17/14; 75edo's downmid third), 416 (75edo's and pythagorean major third), 544 (26/19 or 37/27; 75edo's downmid fourth), 704 (generator), 832 (21/13 or 34/21; 75edo's downmid sixth), 912 (75edo's sixth), 1040 (31/17; 75edo's upminor seventh), 1120 (75edo's major seventh), 1200 (octave)
+:** In "Stumbling Over Mystery" I gravitated towards following intervals (in cents plus explanation): 384 (5/4), 704 (generator), the other chord is just 48 cents (or a quartertone) upwards. [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 12:44, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
+:* Helayo EP: The Helayo scale is actually a hemimeantone scale with some extensions (I am not an expert on color names), I just abbreviated the name badly.
+:** In "way too random partying" I just used a major scale with 6/5 and 16/11 as passing tones. The MOS scale had 19 notes, so it also could be interpreted as detuned 19edo.
+:** In "In The Black Hole" I used the scale 13/12 9/8 7/6 4/3 65/48 7/5 3/2 5/3 21/13 20/11 15/8 64/33 2/1. The MOS scale had 24 notes.
+:** In "Happy Apocalypse!" the MOS scale had 14 notes. I used the scale 33/32 16/15 15/13 6/5 5/4 4/3 18/13 3/2 8/5 16/9 24/13 2/1. Basically a minor scale with 11- and 13-limit extensions. [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 15:23, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
+:* Edson EP:
+:** In "Silent Silence" I used a 17-tone scale, which could be interpreted as some detuning of 29edo. Since Edson is related to Pele and Andromeda, I don't remember what scale I was using. Plus I don't understand the fractions in the subgroup, so I can't tell which intervals I used.
+:** In "you have to run!" I used a 29-tone scale, so it can be interpreted as detuned 29edo. Also here I unfortunately can't say which intervals I was using. [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 15:36, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
+::Thanks! I understand that this may be hard so take your time, I can wait for some days. You gave me just what I wanted to know about the Gross Temperament EP, so if you can write more answers like this about the four other EPs this will be great! [[User:Roeesi|Roeesi]] ([[User talk:Roeesi|talk]]) 14:44, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
+::I'm a little confused about the haleyo EP. How did you have access to these 11-limit intervals in MOS scales with 24 or less notes? Did you a different mapping for 11 which is not the one in the [[Meantone family#Hemimeantone]] paragraph? [[User:Roeesi|Roeesi]] ([[User talk:Roeesi|talk]]) 19:40, 28 February 2026 (UTC)
+:::I don't know if my approximations were wrong, that would be my best guess. I don't know if you have better fitting approximations than me, the scala files are on the wiki, so you can take a look for yourself if you like :) [[User:Francium|Francium]] ([[User talk:Francium|talk]]) 15:07, 1 March 2026 (UTC)