User talk:Overthink: Difference between revisions

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== Hi ==

Welcome to my talk page! -- [[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 03:40, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

== ~~Overly large EDO pages~~ ==

== 23-limit in 159edo ==

I see that you've done some pretty good work on updating temperament pages and infoboxes and the like. However, we have already been dealing with a glut of stubs - i.e. pages with very minimal content beyond what is automatically generated - created for large EDOs or impractical intervals. You have failed to demonstrate notability for these EDOs, which is a very high burden when dealing with systems in the thousands or even hundreds of thousands of notes.

~~One reason~~ you ~~might be making these pages is~~ that ~~you just want~~ to ~~look at~~ the ~~harmonics table~~. I do that ~~on [[User:Lériendil/ET harmonic testing page|a subpage~~ of ~~my userpage]] for~~ the ~~sake of minimizing disruption~~ to the ~~wiki,~~ and I ~~advise that you do similar~~ in the ~~future~~. ~~Consider this a warning; you seem to want to make useful contributions~~, ~~so let us mutually assume good faith.~~

Hello! I see you've been working on a 159edo well temperament. I should mention that when I work in that tuning system and I use the 23-limit, I choose either the no-17's or the no-19's form, with the former being viable up to the 29-odd-limit, and the latter being viable up to the 27-odd-limit. I think you'd do well to take stock of the 2.3.11 subgroup in 159edo as that is the skeleton of what I work with, though I will add the 5-prime and I'm admittedly trying to learn how to add the 7-prime and the 13-prime without stacking them multiple times. I've also literally invented a microtonal cadence in the 2.3.5.11 subgroup that might be of interest. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:37, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

~~Thanks~~,

: I believe a 159-note mos of [[tribilo]] (2.3.11 nexus) temperament may be useful, and it could contain better approximations of intervals outside of 2.3.11 as well. --[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 06:10, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

- [[User:~~Lériendil~~|~~Lériendil~~]] ([[User talk:~~Lériendil~~|talk]]) 07:23, ~~22 September~~ 2025 (UTC)

:: You'd be right about that, but you'd also be right if you decided on a 159-note MOS of [[frameshift]]. Fortunately, 159edo itself tempers out both the nexus comma and the frameshift comma. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 17:37, 25 October 2025 (UTC)

: It would be nice if the 2.3.5.11 subgroup was more connected. Prime 5 is equated to -8 fifths octave reduced, which is relatively close, but three 11/8s reach the original chain of fifths +28/-25 fifths away, which is almost exactly the opposite side of the circle. Three 11/10's return only a single fifth down, but unfortunately intervals with 3 factors of 5 are (just barely) inconsistent. There doesn't seem to be a very simple way to connect 2.3.11 to prime 5, but think I found a solution: Prime 17! The 4 intervals closest to the 12edo semitone in 159edo are 256/243, '''18/17''', '''17/16''', and 2187/2048. Prime 17 could be quite useful in classical music, such as in the 17:20:24 diminished chord. Prime 5 is found much more easily and consistently, as simply 3/2 minus 3 17/16s, and nothing of this simplicity is in 2.3.5.11. I believe it would be a good idea to devise a system of 2.3.17 analogous to alpharabian tuning, and you could easily just add back prime 11. --[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 04:24, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

: I believe a 12edo-based classification of intervals based on 2.3.5.17 [[Schismatic family#Term|Term temperament]] may be good, and for prime 11 use an 24edo-based classification from [[Schismatic family#Hemiterm|hemiterm]]. Note that 159edo supports both.--[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 05:07, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

: Or maybe just start with simpler intervals of 2.3.17.--[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 05:17, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

:: One way I've noticed for connecting primes 11 and 5, or rather combinations of 3 and 11 with combinations of 3 and 5, is to equate three instances of 243/242 with 81/80. Prime 17 is also a good addition, and it simplifies certain 11-based gestures in 159edo by 17/16 being equated with two instances of 33/32. I should note that 159edo supports both of these options. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 06:12, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

:: One more thing I just remembered about connecting combinations of 3, 5 and 11 is to stack three instances of 8192/8019 to get 16/15. I don't know what you make of that, but it's a gesture supported by both 65edo and 159edo. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 06:26, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

:: A third option I just found for connecting primes 3, 5 and 11 is to equate two instances of 81/80 with 4096/3993. You are right that none of these are particularly simple, but I still find these methods to be highly valuable- especially with prime 17 coming in to simplify things. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 07:00, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{Archives}}
 == Hi ==
 Welcome to my talk page! -- [[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 03:40, 21 September 2025 (UTC)
-== Overly large EDO pages ==
+== 23-limit in 159edo ==
-I see that you've done some pretty good work on updating temperament pages and infoboxes and the like. However, we have already been dealing with a glut of stubs - i.e. pages with very minimal content beyond what is automatically generated - created for large EDOs or impractical intervals. You have failed to demonstrate notability for these EDOs, which is a very high burden when dealing with systems in the thousands or even hundreds of thousands of notes.
-One reason you might be making these pages is that you just want to look at the harmonics table. I do that on [[User:Lériendil/ET harmonic testing page|a subpage of my userpage]] for the sake of minimizing disruption to the wiki, and I advise that you do similar in the future. Consider this a warning; you seem to want to make useful contributions, so let us mutually assume good faith.
+Hello!  I see you've been working on a 159edo well temperament.  I should mention that when I work in that tuning system and I use the 23-limit, I choose either the no-17's or the no-19's form, with the former being viable up to the 29-odd-limit, and the latter being viable up to the 27-odd-limit.  I think you'd do well to take stock of the 2.3.11 subgroup in 159edo as that is the skeleton of what I work with, though I will add the 5-prime and I'm admittedly trying to learn how to add the 7-prime and the 13-prime without stacking them multiple times.  I've also literally invented a microtonal cadence in the 2.3.5.11 subgroup that might be of interest. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:37, 19 October 2025 (UTC)
-Thanks,
+: I believe a 159-note mos of [[tribilo]] (2.3.11 nexus) temperament may be useful, and it could contain better approximations of intervals outside of 2.3.11 as well. --[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 06:10, 24 October 2025 (UTC)
-- [[User:Lériendil|Lériendil]] ([[User talk:Lériendil|talk]]) 07:23, 22 September 2025 (UTC)
+:: You'd be right about that, but you'd also be right if you decided on a 159-note MOS of [[frameshift]].  Fortunately, 159edo itself tempers out both the nexus comma and the frameshift comma. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 17:37, 25 October 2025 (UTC)
+: It would be nice if the 2.3.5.11 subgroup was more connected. Prime 5 is equated to -8 fifths octave reduced, which is relatively close, but three 11/8s reach the original chain of fifths +28/-25 fifths away, which is almost exactly the opposite side of the circle. Three 11/10's return only a single fifth down, but unfortunately intervals with 3 factors of 5 are (just barely) inconsistent. There doesn't seem to be a very simple way to connect 2.3.11 to prime 5, but think I found a solution: Prime 17! The 4 intervals closest to the 12edo semitone in 159edo are 256/243, '''18/17''', '''17/16''', and 2187/2048. Prime 17 could be quite useful in classical music, such as in the 17:20:24 diminished chord. Prime 5 is found much more easily and consistently, as simply 3/2 minus 3 17/16s, and nothing of this simplicity is in 2.3.5.11. I believe it would be a good idea to devise a system of 2.3.17 analogous to alpharabian tuning, and you could easily just add back prime 11. --[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 04:24, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
+: I believe a 12edo-based classification of intervals based on 2.3.5.17 [[Schismatic family#Term|Term temperament]] may be good, and for prime 11 use an 24edo-based classification from [[Schismatic family#Hemiterm|hemiterm]]. Note that 159edo supports both.--[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 05:07, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
+: Or maybe just start with simpler intervals of 2.3.17.--[[User:Overthink|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink|talk]]) 05:17, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
+:: One way I've noticed for connecting primes 11 and 5, or rather combinations of 3 and 11 with combinations of 3 and 5, is to equate three instances of 243/242 with 81/80.  Prime 17 is also a good addition, and it simplifies certain 11-based gestures in 159edo by 17/16 being equated with two instances of 33/32.  I should note that 159edo supports both of these options. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 06:12, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
+::  One more thing I just remembered about connecting combinations of 3, 5 and 11 is to stack three instances of 8192/8019 to get 16/15.  I don't know what you make of that, but it's a gesture supported by both 65edo and 159edo. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 06:26, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
+:: A third option I just found for connecting primes 3, 5 and 11 is to equate two instances of 81/80 with 4096/3993.  You are right that none of these are particularly simple, but I still find these methods to be highly valuable- especially with prime 17 coming in to simplify things. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 07:00, 16 November 2025 (UTC)