User:Ganaram inukshuk/Notes/TAMNAMS: Difference between revisions

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This is a subpage for [[TAMNAMS]]-related notes, containing various proposals of varying degrees of usefulness and other useful things. This also contains ~~some~~ rewrites of sections of the main TAMNAMS page that aren't quite ready to be deployed.

This is a subpage for [[TAMNAMS]]-related notes, containing various proposals of varying degrees of usefulness and other useful things. This also contains rewrites of sections of the main TAMNAMS page that aren't quite ready to be deployed.

== Sandboxed rewrites ==

Line 677:

|}

== Proposal: Naming mosses with more than 10 steps ==

== Proposal: Naming mosses with more than 10 steps (work-in-progress) ==

This is a system for describing scales beyond the set of named TAMNAMS scales. Both [[User:Frostburn]] ([[User:Frostburn/TAMNAMS Extension]]) and I have similar systems, with the main difference here being that mosses are technically not limited to being only three generations away.

~~Notes:~~

* Interestingly, there is evidence that another Xen Discord user ([[user:Flirora]]) suggested the same naming system described here up to 3 generations, with only slight differences with 3rd-generation names. As I was part of a discussion on limiting TAMNAMS names to 10-note mosses, which facilitated naming mosdescendants up to two generations (mosenharmonic scales), rather than this earlier suggestion, it's possible that the same proposal for mosenharmonic scales may have been independently developed twice.

* Some names with this system are not finalized, particularly the term "mosschismic" and some of the single-letter prefixes.

** Better names than "mosschismic" include "mossubharmonic" (adapted from the suggestion described above) and "mossubchromatic", possibly shortened to "mossubchromic" (adapted from "subchromatic", as suggested in [[Diatonic, Chromatic, Enharmonic, Subchromatic|this page]]).

** Another issue with the single-letter prefixes described here is that they are technically based off of a temperament. A temperament-agnostic interpretation will be needed if these letters are to be generalized outside of the diatonic family.

=== Naming mosdescendants up to 3 generations ===

Line 849:

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=== Mosdescendants for single-period mosses ===

Although it's possible for any mos to have mosdescendants named as described above, ~~for neatness,~~ mosdescendant scale names should apply ~~only~~ to mosses whose immediate child mosses exceed 10 steps. The following tables show which mosses, marked in '''bold''', mosdescendant names can apply.

Although it's possible for any mos to have mosdescendants named as described above, it's recommended that mosdescendant scale names should apply to mosses whose immediate child mosses exceed 10 steps. The following tables show which mosses, marked in '''bold''', mosdescendant names can apply.

{| class="wikitable"

|+Single-period mosses for which mosdescendant names apply

Line 1,522:

Line 1,515:

|5A 23B

|}

=== Notes and issues ===

* Interestingly, there is evidence that another Xen Discord user ([[user:Flirora]]) suggested the same naming system described here up to 3 generations, with only slight differences with 3rd-generation names. As I was part of a discussion on limiting TAMNAMS names to 10-note mosses, which facilitated naming mosdescendants up to two generations (mosenharmonic scales), rather than this earlier suggestion, it's possible that the same proposal for mosenharmonic scales may have been independently developed twice.

* Some names with this system are not finalized, particularly the term "mosschismic" and some of the single-letter prefixes.

** Better names than "mosschismic" include "mossubharmonic" (adapted from the suggestion described above) and "mossubchromatic", possibly shortened to "mossubchromic" (adapted from "subchromatic", as seen in [[Diatonic, Chromatic, Enharmonic, Subchromatic|this page]]).

** Another issue with the single-letter prefixes described here is that they are technically based off of a temperament. A temperament-agnostic interpretation will be needed if these letters are to be generalized outside of the diatonic family.

** Yet another issue is that the pattern of f-, m-, p-, and s- does not continue with 3rd-generation mosses in that f- and s- are no longer at the extremes and p- is no longer at the midpoint. Either 3rd-generation mosses need a different set of prefixes, or if only 8 prefixes are desired, a set of temperament-agnostic prefixes are needed throughout.

== Proposal: Naming mos modes ==

Line 1,725:

|sel

|selenic

|An indirect reference to [[luna]] temperament; "selene" is Greek for "moon". The name "selenite" follows the same pattern of 1L 6s being named after a type of gemstone.

|Shorter name. An indirect reference to [[luna]] temperament; "selene" is Greek for "moon". The name "selenite" follows the same pattern of 1L 6s being named after a type of gemstone.

|Pun.

|-

Line 1,814:

|subar

|baric

|~~bar~~-

|bara-

|bar

|

|Rhymes perfectly with jaric and taric. May also mean "basic -aric", as this mos with a basic step ratio (L:s=2:1) cannot produce jaric or taric, or rather, produces both but equalized.

|Too minor of a modification. The use of "bar" as ~~a prefix or~~ abbreviation may be problematic ("bar" may also mean "measure" in sheet music).

|Too minor of a modification. The use of "bar" as an abbreviation may be problematic ("bar" may also mean "measure" in sheet music).

|}

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These are the rules that attempt to justify the logic behind much of the name suggestions. There are, of course, exceptions to these rules, as some names are arguably too memorable to change.

# Names for single-period mosses with 5 or fewer notes are the most general names in the sense that they're not limited by octave~~-equivalence~~ and end with -ic or -al. These should be the only mosses that contain the anti- prefix, shortened to an-.

# Names for single-period mosses with 5 or fewer notes are the most general names in the sense that they're not limited to an octave period and end with -ic or -al. These should be the only mosses that contain the anti- prefix, shortened to an-. (Exception: monowood is octave-specific and does not end with -ic or -al.)

# ~~All names~~ for mosses not of the form 1L ns end with -tonic, suggesting that these are octave-specific and reference a specific interval, a notable pre-TAMNAMS or other temperament-agnostic name, or indirectly reference a temperament if all other options are exhausted. (Exceptions: mosh, semiquartal, zaltertic, balzano, and pine don't end with -tonic.)

## An extreme alternative to rule 1 is to say that all mosses named under rule 1 should end with -al, but this requires renaming more mosses (antetral, tetral, pental, anpental) for arguably little gain.

# Names for single-period mosses not of the form 1L ns end with -tonic, suggesting that these are octave-specific and reference a specific interval, a notable pre-TAMNAMS or other temperament-agnostic name, or indirectly reference a temperament if all other options are exhausted. (Exceptions: mosh, semiquartal, zaltertic, balzano, and pine don't end with -tonic.)

# Names for mosses of the form 1L ns with 6 or more notes are named after gemstones and minerals, following the spirit of 1L 6s being named onyx. These are named differently than those named using the previous rule as these mosses have too broad a tuning range to even suggest a single temperament.

# ~~Multi~~-period mosses end with -ic and always refer to an octave-equivalent scale. (Execptions: lemon, lime, tcherepnin, and all the -wood scales don't end with -ic.)

# Names for multi-period mosses end with -ic and always refer to an octave-equivalent scale. (Execptions: lemon, lime, tcherepnin, and all the -wood scales don't end with -ic.)

# With the exception of mosses named under rule 1, no mosses should be named in a way that they contain additional prefixes such as anti-, sub-, or super-. (Exception: semiquartal bears the semi- prefix, but its mosprefix is chton-.

# With the exception of mosses named under rule 1, no mosses should be named in a way that they contain additional prefixes such as anti-, sub-, or super-. (Exception: semiquartal bears the semi- prefix, but its mosprefix is chton-).

Other name changes:

* Antipentic -> anpentic; follows names of other small mosses where an- is used as a shortened form of anti-.

Line 1,902:

Line 1,903:

|gramitonic

|-

| rowspan="3" |3L 1s

| rowspan="3" |tetric

|4L 3s

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Line 1,909:

| colspan="2" |

|-

| rowspan="2" |3L 4s

| rowspan="2" |mosh

|7L 3s

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-This is a subpage for [[TAMNAMS]]-related notes, containing various proposals of varying degrees of usefulness and other useful things. This also contains some rewrites of sections of the main TAMNAMS page that aren't quite ready to be deployed.
+This is a subpage for [[TAMNAMS]]-related notes, containing various proposals of varying degrees of usefulness and other useful things. This also contains rewrites of sections of the main TAMNAMS page that aren't quite ready to be deployed.
 == Sandboxed rewrites ==
@@ Line 677: / Line 677: @@
 |}
-== Proposal: Naming mosses with more than 10 steps ==
+== Proposal: Naming mosses with more than 10 steps (work-in-progress) ==
 This is a system for describing scales beyond the set of named TAMNAMS scales. Both [[User:Frostburn]] ([[User:Frostburn/TAMNAMS Extension]]) and I have similar systems, with the main difference here being that mosses are technically not limited to being only three generations away.
-Notes:
-* Interestingly, there is evidence that another Xen Discord user ([[user:Flirora]]) suggested the same naming system described here up to 3 generations, with only slight differences with 3rd-generation names. As I was part of a discussion on limiting TAMNAMS names to 10-note mosses, which facilitated naming mosdescendants up to two generations (mosenharmonic scales), rather than this earlier suggestion, it's possible that the same proposal for mosenharmonic scales may have been independently developed twice.
-* Some names with this system are not finalized, particularly the term "mosschismic" and some of the single-letter prefixes.
-** Better names than "mosschismic" include "mossubharmonic" (adapted from the suggestion described above) and "mossubchromatic", possibly shortened to "mossubchromic" (adapted from "subchromatic", as suggested in [[Diatonic, Chromatic, Enharmonic, Subchromatic|this page]]).
-** Another issue with the single-letter prefixes described here is that they are technically based off of a temperament. A temperament-agnostic interpretation will be needed if these letters are to be generalized outside of the diatonic family.
 === Naming mosdescendants up to 3 generations ===
@@ Line 849: / Line 842: @@
 === Mosdescendants for single-period mosses ===
-Although it's possible for any mos to have mosdescendants named as described above, for neatness, mosdescendant scale names should apply only to mosses whose immediate child mosses exceed 10 steps. The following tables show which mosses, marked in '''bold''', mosdescendant names can apply.
+Although it's possible for any mos to have mosdescendants named as described above, it's recommended that mosdescendant scale names should apply to mosses whose immediate child mosses exceed 10 steps. The following tables show which mosses, marked in '''bold''', mosdescendant names can apply.
 {| class="wikitable"
 |+Single-period mosses for which mosdescendant names apply
@@ Line 1,522: / Line 1,515: @@
 |5A 23B
 |}
+=== Notes and issues ===
+* Interestingly, there is evidence that another Xen Discord user ([[user:Flirora]]) suggested the same naming system described here up to 3 generations, with only slight differences with 3rd-generation names. As I was part of a discussion on limiting TAMNAMS names to 10-note mosses, which facilitated naming mosdescendants up to two generations (mosenharmonic scales), rather than this earlier suggestion, it's possible that the same proposal for mosenharmonic scales may have been independently developed twice.
+* Some names with this system are not finalized, particularly the term "mosschismic" and some of the single-letter prefixes.
+** Better names than "mosschismic" include "mossubharmonic" (adapted from the suggestion described above) and "mossubchromatic", possibly shortened to "mossubchromic" (adapted from "subchromatic", as seen in [[Diatonic, Chromatic, Enharmonic, Subchromatic|this page]]).
+** Another issue with the single-letter prefixes described here is that they are technically based off of a temperament. A temperament-agnostic interpretation will be needed if these letters are to be generalized outside of the diatonic family.
+** Yet another issue is that the pattern of f-, m-, p-, and s- does not continue with 3rd-generation mosses in that f- and s- are no longer at the extremes and p- is no longer at the midpoint. Either 3rd-generation mosses need a different set of prefixes, or if only 8 prefixes are desired, a set of temperament-agnostic prefixes are needed throughout.
 == Proposal: Naming mos modes ==
@@ Line 1,725: / Line 1,725: @@
 |sel
 |selenic
-|An indirect reference to [[luna]] temperament; "selene" is Greek for "moon". The name "selenite" follows the same pattern of 1L 6s being named after a type of gemstone.
+|Shorter name. An indirect reference to [[luna]] temperament; "selene" is Greek for "moon". The name "selenite" follows the same pattern of 1L 6s being named after a type of gemstone.
 |Pun.
 |-
@@ Line 1,814: / Line 1,814: @@
 |subar
 |baric
-|bar-
+|bara-
 |bar
 |
 |Rhymes perfectly with jaric and taric. May also mean "basic -aric", as this mos with a basic step ratio (L:s=2:1) cannot produce jaric or taric, or rather, produces both but equalized.
-|Too minor of a modification. The use of "bar" as a prefix or abbreviation may be problematic ("bar" may also mean "measure" in sheet music).
+|Too minor of a modification. The use of "bar" as an abbreviation may be problematic ("bar" may also mean "measure" in sheet music).
 |}
@@ Line 1,824: / Line 1,824: @@
 These are the rules that attempt to justify the logic behind much of the name suggestions. There are, of course, exceptions to these rules, as some names are arguably too memorable to change.
-# Names for single-period mosses with 5 or fewer notes are the most general names in the sense that they're not limited by octave-equivalence and end with -ic or -al. These should be the only mosses that contain the anti- prefix, shortened to an-.
+# Names for single-period mosses with 5 or fewer notes are the most general names in the sense that they're not limited to an octave period and end with -ic or -al. These should be the only mosses that contain the anti- prefix, shortened to an-. (Exception: monowood is octave-specific and does not end with -ic or -al.)
-# All names for mosses not of the form 1L ns end with -tonic, suggesting that these are octave-specific and reference a specific interval, a notable pre-TAMNAMS or other temperament-agnostic name, or indirectly reference a temperament if all other options are exhausted. (Exceptions: mosh, semiquartal, zaltertic, balzano, and pine don't end with -tonic.)
+## An extreme alternative to rule 1 is to say that all mosses named under rule 1 should end with -al, but this requires renaming more mosses (antetral, tetral, pental, anpental) for arguably little gain.
+# Names for single-period mosses not of the form 1L ns end with -tonic, suggesting that these are octave-specific and reference a specific interval, a notable pre-TAMNAMS or other temperament-agnostic name, or indirectly reference a temperament if all other options are exhausted. (Exceptions: mosh, semiquartal, zaltertic, balzano, and pine don't end with -tonic.)
 # Names for mosses of the form 1L ns with 6 or more notes are named after gemstones and minerals, following the spirit of 1L 6s being named onyx. These are named differently than those named using the previous rule as these mosses have too broad a tuning range to even suggest a single temperament.
-# Multi-period mosses end with -ic and always refer to an octave-equivalent scale. (Execptions: lemon, lime, tcherepnin, and all the -wood scales don't end with -ic.)
+# Names for multi-period mosses end with -ic and always refer to an octave-equivalent scale. (Execptions: lemon, lime, tcherepnin, and all the -wood scales don't end with -ic.)
-# With the exception of mosses named under rule 1, no mosses should be named in a way that they contain additional prefixes such as anti-, sub-, or super-. (Exception: semiquartal bears the semi- prefix, but its mosprefix is chton-.
+# With the exception of mosses named under rule 1, no mosses should be named in a way that they contain additional prefixes such as anti-, sub-, or super-. (Exception: semiquartal bears the semi- prefix, but its mosprefix is chton-).
 Other name changes:
 * Antipentic -> anpentic; follows names of other small mosses where an- is used as a shortened form of anti-.
@@ Line 1,902: / Line 1,903: @@
 |gramitonic
 |-
-| rowspan="3" |3L  1s
+| rowspan="3" |3L 1s
 | rowspan="3" |tetric
 |4L 3s
@@ Line 1,908: / Line 1,909: @@
 | colspan="2" |
 |-
-| rowspan="2" |3L  4s
+| rowspan="2" |3L 4s
 | rowspan="2" |mosh
 |7L 3s