User talk:Rperlner: Difference between revisions

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:::::::: Your observations about the resolutions of the wolf fourth are spot on. Indeed, it is not for nothing that the D-A wolf fourth's resolution to B-Minor is not a final resolution- although this provides a decrease in tension, this decrease in tension can be compared to the calm before a storm. In fact, when a given musical phrase contains the D-Wolf-Open-to-B-Minor motion, that motion is often followed up by a motion to F-Major to create a Tyrant half cadence, which closes out that particular musical phrase. The D-A wolf fifth can be thought of as the parallel to the Tyrant chord in the same way that E-Minor is the Dominant Parallel in C-Major- the parallel chord is usually not as strong as the chord to which it acts as the parallel. As to the resolution from the D-A wolf fifth to G-Open, this is followed up by C-Open (1/1-3/2-2/1-3/1) as the chord on the Flat-2 (root related to the Tonic by 16/15), which is in turn followed up by a full Tyrant cadence consisting of F-Major (1/1-3/2-5/2) followed by B-Minor (1/1-2/1-77/32-4/1). Dare I point out that the entire sequence is actually part of Locrian's circle progression, which goes like this- B-Minor, E-Open, A-Open, D-Wolf-Open, G-Open, C-Open, F-Major, and finally, B-Minor. Locrian's circle progression is the strongest progression that Locrian mode has to offer, and because of that, it's best saved for closing out a lengthy passage. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

::::::::: A brief comment on the Locrian circle progression: Root motion by 5ths between open 5th chords presents a pretty limited range of options for voice leading. Voices can either be held fixed, move by step, or leap by a perfect 4th or 5th. The former may be able to be decorated by a neighbor tone figure, the step may be treated as a 9-8 suspension, and the fourth leap may be filled in with passing tones (although this will put the 3rd back in the first chord.) This leaves out a number of the more common contrapuntal decorations you find in the baroque style (e.g. the 7-6 and 4-3 suspensions and their standard elaborations as well as the humble single passing tone.) I'd also note that, except at cadences, I don't think much about what chords I'm using when writing in a fugal style. It's very much a chords from voice leading process as opposed to vice-versa. I guess this isn't necessarily at odds with your advice to use the circle progression at the end of a lengthy passage (i.e. around the cadence). --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 19:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

:::::::: I just had a thought... Since the wolf fifth is a different interval from the perfect fifth with different properties, perhaps a succession of chords in root position such as the sequence G-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2), A-Wolf-Minor (1/1-32/27-40/27), B-Diminished (1/1-6/5-32/27), C-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2) in the key of C-Major could potentially be allowed in non-meantone settings, seeing as it seems to be that only two successive chords with parallel perfect fifths or octaves lead to the loss of independence among the different voices. Do you think this is a viable technique for things like fugues? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

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 ::::::::  Your observations about the resolutions of the wolf fourth are spot on.  Indeed, it is not for nothing that the D-A wolf fourth's resolution to B-Minor is not a final resolution- although this provides a decrease in tension, this decrease in tension can be compared to the calm before a storm.  In fact, when a given musical phrase contains the D-Wolf-Open-to-B-Minor motion, that motion is often followed up by a motion to F-Major to create a Tyrant half cadence, which closes out that particular musical phrase.  The D-A wolf fifth can be thought of as the parallel to the Tyrant chord in the same way that E-Minor is the Dominant Parallel in C-Major- the parallel chord is usually not as strong as the chord to which it acts as the parallel.  As to the resolution from the D-A wolf fifth to G-Open, this is followed up by C-Open (1/1-3/2-2/1-3/1) as the chord on the Flat-2 (root related to the Tonic by 16/15), which is in turn followed up by a full Tyrant cadence consisting of F-Major (1/1-3/2-5/2) followed by B-Minor (1/1-2/1-77/32-4/1).  Dare I point out that the entire sequence is actually part of Locrian's circle progression, which goes like this- B-Minor, E-Open, A-Open, D-Wolf-Open, G-Open, C-Open, F-Major, and finally, B-Minor.  Locrian's circle progression is the strongest progression that Locrian mode has to offer, and because of that, it's best saved for closing out a lengthy passage. --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 05:13, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
+::::::::: A brief comment on the Locrian circle progression: Root motion by 5ths between open 5th chords presents a pretty limited range of options for voice leading. Voices can either be held fixed, move by step, or leap by a perfect 4th or 5th. The former may be able to be decorated by a neighbor tone figure, the step may be treated as a 9-8 suspension, and the fourth leap may be filled in with passing tones (although this will put the 3rd back in the first chord.) This leaves out a number of the more common contrapuntal decorations you find in the baroque style (e.g. the 7-6 and 4-3 suspensions and their standard elaborations as well as the humble single passing tone.) I'd also note that, except at cadences, I don't think much about what chords I'm using when writing in a fugal style. It's very much a chords from voice leading process as opposed to vice-versa. I guess this isn't necessarily at odds with your advice to use the circle progression at the end of a lengthy passage (i.e. around the cadence). --[[User:Rperlner|Rperlner]] ([[User talk:Rperlner|talk]]) 19:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 :::::::: I just had a thought...  Since the wolf fifth is a different interval from the perfect fifth with different properties, perhaps a succession of chords in root position such as the sequence G-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2), A-Wolf-Minor (1/1-32/27-40/27), B-Diminished (1/1-6/5-32/27), C-Major (1/1-5/4-3/2) in the key of C-Major could potentially be allowed in non-meantone settings, seeing as it seems to be that only two successive chords with parallel perfect fifths or octaves lead to the loss of independence among the different voices.  Do you think this is a viable technique for things like fugues? --[[User:Aura|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura|talk]]) 23:12, 4 January 2021 (UTC)