Whynotmicrotonality: Difference between revisions
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<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2> | <h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2> | ||
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: This revision was by author [[User:igliashon|igliashon]] and made on <tt>2012-12-16 | : This revision was by author [[User:igliashon|igliashon]] and made on <tt>2012-12-16 23:12:23 UTC</tt>.<br> | ||
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When I first got into microtonality, I thought I was going to lead a revolution. I thought I had discovered something that threw a monkey-wrench into all of Western music theory, something that would open up stark new possibilities and lead to the re-invention of music as we know it. But then I tried to share my discovery with my fellow musicians, and was shocked to discover that none agreed with me. And they agreed even less when they actually heard the music that resulted from these new tunings. Those who could hear a difference generally found it to be a negative difference. Most of the people who responded favorably at all were those who lacked in musical training and couldn't really hear the difference at all. | When I first got into microtonality, I thought I was going to lead a revolution. I thought I had discovered something that threw a monkey-wrench into all of Western music theory, something that would open up stark new possibilities and lead to the re-invention of music as we know it. But then I tried to share my discovery with my fellow musicians, and was shocked to discover that none agreed with me. And they agreed even less when they actually heard the music that resulted from these new tunings. Those who could hear a difference generally found it to be a negative difference. Most of the people who responded favorably at all were those who lacked in musical training and couldn't really hear the difference at all. | ||
Even within the community of microtonalists, it is exceedingly rare to find someone who can identify a tuning by ear, even after years of exposure. This has been roundly acknowledged. With a bit of ear-training, pretty much any musician can learn to identify the basic chord-types of 12-TET, but it seems that only those with absolute pitch can learn, even with extensive training and exposure, to even occasionally distinguish which of the low ETs a piece of music is in. In other words, the difference between different chords in 12-TET is of vastly more auditory significance than the difference between different ETs. If anyone tells you that ETs all have distinct moods and personalities that are totally unlike anything found in 12-TET, this person has drank the kool-aid and is completely out of touch with the experience of all non-specialist listeners. The reality is that the intonational differences are exceedingly subtle, even when they (numerically) appear large, unless you are one of the lucky few to have exceedingly sensitive ears--i.e., if you're the sort to whom 12-TET always sounds out-of-tune. Even then, odds are you will only be able to tell when a sonority is close to JI or not--don't expect to differentiate 14-ET from 15-ET, nor 19-ET from 22-ET. | Even within the community of microtonalists, it is exceedingly rare to find someone who can identify a tuning by ear, even after years of exposure, or even distinguish between tunings after having the field narrowed down. This has been roundly acknowledged. With a bit of ear-training, pretty much any musician can learn to identify the basic chord-types of 12-TET, but it seems that only those with absolute pitch can learn, even with extensive training and exposure, to even occasionally distinguish which of the low ETs a piece of music is in. In other words, the difference between different chords in 12-TET is of vastly more auditory significance than the difference between different ETs. If anyone tells you that ETs all have distinct moods and personalities that are totally unlike anything found in 12-TET, this person has drank the kool-aid and is completely out of touch with the experience of all non-specialist listeners. The reality is that the intonational differences are exceedingly subtle, even when they (numerically) appear large, unless you are one of the lucky few to have exceedingly sensitive ears--i.e., if you're the sort to whom 12-TET always sounds out-of-tune. Even then, odds are you will only be able to tell when a sonority is close to JI or not--don't expect to differentiate 14-ET from 15-ET, nor 19-ET from 22-ET. | ||
==2. Changing tunings will not change who you are== | ==2. Changing tunings will not change who you are== | ||
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=Critical reaction to the foregoing by Carl Lumma= | =Critical reaction to the foregoing by Carl Lumma= | ||
//<span style="color: #ff0000;">(with responses by the original author in red italic)</span>// | |||
//"Tuning doesn't make as much difference as you'd think"// | //"Tuning doesn't make as much difference as you'd think"// | ||
...If you start with unreasonable expectations. Such as the expectation that refining one's control of intonation will "automatically" reveal "new compositional approaches" or allow one to "lead a revolution". | ...If you start with unreasonable expectations. Such as the expectation that refining one's control of intonation will "automatically" reveal "new compositional approaches" or allow one to "lead a revolution". //<span style="color: #ff0000;">(Can you blame someone for such unreasonable expectations, given the shameless puff-pieces such as those linked at the bottom of this page? Where are the articles detailing the benefits one can reasonably hope to gain from microtonality?)</span>// | ||
//"If anyone tells you that ETs all have distinct moods and personalities that are totally unlike anything found in 12-TET, this person has drank the kool-aid..."// | //"If anyone tells you that ETs all have distinct moods and personalities that are totally unlike anything found in 12-TET, this person has drank the kool-aid..."// | ||
This would follow from evidence that people can't distinguish ETs, not from the evidence claimed, which is that people can't **identify** ETs. Many music fans can't identify scales or functional progressions in 12-ET, either. Is this an argument that all music could be I-V-I in 12-ET and it would make no difference? | This would follow from evidence that people can't distinguish ETs, not from the evidence claimed, which is that people can't **identify** ETs. //<span style="color: #fe0606;">(Re-read the article; it was originally claimed that indeed, people can't **distinguish** ETs, let alone identify them.)</span>// Many music fans can't identify scales or functional progressions in 12-ET, either. Is this an argument that all music could be I-V-I in 12-ET and it would make no difference? //<span style="color: #ff0000;">(Actually, people can be trained to identify and distinguish between scales and functional progressions in 12-ET much more reliably than they can be taught to identify or distinguish between ETs).</span>// | ||
//"The best microtonal musicians--the ones with the most commercial success--are those who keep a very healthy distance between themselves and the community."// | //"The best microtonal musicians--the ones with the most commercial success--are those who keep a very healthy distance between themselves and the community."// | ||
Music isn't for talking. Plenty of musicians visit microtonal forums to share recordings -- what else? Theory works with talking, but theory isn't music and there's only so much of two subjects a person can master. At least one artist did manage to understand and prolifically apply all major xenharmonic theory concepts though: Chuckles McGee. Other theory-heavy successes include Kraig Grady, Marcus Hobbs, Ben Johnston, and Harry Partch. And serious theorists like Graham Breed have produced very listenable tracks. | Music isn't for talking. Plenty of musicians visit microtonal forums to share recordings -- what else? Theory works with talking, but theory isn't music and there's only so much of two subjects a person can master. At least one artist did manage to understand and prolifically apply all major xenharmonic theory concepts though: Chuckles McGee. Other theory-heavy successes include Kraig Grady, Marcus Hobbs, Ben Johnston, and Harry Partch. And serious theorists like Graham Breed have produced very listenable tracks. | ||
//<span style="color: #ff0000;">(Missed the point that it is not theory per se, but active involvement in the community that is detrimental to one's music-making. Precisely because of the reasons you state--there's only so much of two subjects a person can master).</span>// | |||
It's generally acknowledged that anyone hoping to achieve commercial success with music in today's climate is facing an uphill battle, and that this goes double for anyone walking off the beaten path. | It's generally acknowledged that anyone hoping to achieve commercial success with music in today's climate is facing an uphill battle, and that this goes double for anyone walking off the beaten path. <span style="color: #ff0000;">//(Yet why should it be, if microtonality offers distinct advantages over playing in 12-ET?)//</span> | ||
//"...the fact of the matter is the microtonal community is desperate for music, and will laud output of any quality."// | //"...the fact of the matter is the microtonal community is desperate for music, and will laud output of any quality."// | ||
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//"12-TET is actually and objectively the best ET"// | //"12-TET is actually and objectively the best ET"// | ||
Also probably true but it is not **so much better** than alternatives as to warrant **exclusive use**. | Also probably true but it is not **so much better** than alternatives as to warrant **exclusive use**. //<span style="color: #ff0000;">(Which is no contention against the claim that these alternatives can hope at best to be no worse than 12-ET, and hardly a persuasive argument in favor of their use.)</span>// | ||
=See also= | =See also= | ||
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When I first got into microtonality, I thought I was going to lead a revolution. I thought I had discovered something that threw a monkey-wrench into all of Western music theory, something that would open up stark new possibilities and lead to the re-invention of music as we know it. But then I tried to share my discovery with my fellow musicians, and was shocked to discover that none agreed with me. And they agreed even less when they actually heard the music that resulted from these new tunings. Those who could hear a difference generally found it to be a negative difference. Most of the people who responded favorably at all were those who lacked in musical training and couldn't really hear the difference at all.<br /> | When I first got into microtonality, I thought I was going to lead a revolution. I thought I had discovered something that threw a monkey-wrench into all of Western music theory, something that would open up stark new possibilities and lead to the re-invention of music as we know it. But then I tried to share my discovery with my fellow musicians, and was shocked to discover that none agreed with me. And they agreed even less when they actually heard the music that resulted from these new tunings. Those who could hear a difference generally found it to be a negative difference. Most of the people who responded favorably at all were those who lacked in musical training and couldn't really hear the difference at all.<br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
Even within the community of microtonalists, it is exceedingly rare to find someone who can identify a tuning by ear, even after years of exposure. This has been roundly acknowledged. With a bit of ear-training, pretty much any musician can learn to identify the basic chord-types of 12-TET, but it seems that only those with absolute pitch can learn, even with extensive training and exposure, to even occasionally distinguish which of the low ETs a piece of music is in. In other words, the difference between different chords in 12-TET is of vastly more auditory significance than the difference between different ETs. If anyone tells you that ETs all have distinct moods and personalities that are totally unlike anything found in 12-TET, this person has drank the kool-aid and is completely out of touch with the experience of all non-specialist listeners. The reality is that the intonational differences are exceedingly subtle, even when they (numerically) appear large, unless you are one of the lucky few to have exceedingly sensitive ears--i.e., if you're the sort to whom 12-TET always sounds out-of-tune. Even then, odds are you will only be able to tell when a sonority is close to JI or not--don't expect to differentiate 14-ET from 15-ET, nor 19-ET from 22-ET.<br /> | Even within the community of microtonalists, it is exceedingly rare to find someone who can identify a tuning by ear, even after years of exposure, or even distinguish between tunings after having the field narrowed down. This has been roundly acknowledged. With a bit of ear-training, pretty much any musician can learn to identify the basic chord-types of 12-TET, but it seems that only those with absolute pitch can learn, even with extensive training and exposure, to even occasionally distinguish which of the low ETs a piece of music is in. In other words, the difference between different chords in 12-TET is of vastly more auditory significance than the difference between different ETs. If anyone tells you that ETs all have distinct moods and personalities that are totally unlike anything found in 12-TET, this person has drank the kool-aid and is completely out of touch with the experience of all non-specialist listeners. The reality is that the intonational differences are exceedingly subtle, even when they (numerically) appear large, unless you are one of the lucky few to have exceedingly sensitive ears--i.e., if you're the sort to whom 12-TET always sounds out-of-tune. Even then, odds are you will only be able to tell when a sonority is close to JI or not--don't expect to differentiate 14-ET from 15-ET, nor 19-ET from 22-ET.<br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
<!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:4:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc2"><a name="Why You Shouldn't Get Into Microtonality-2. Changing tunings will not change who you are"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:4 -->2. Changing tunings will not change who you are</h2> | <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:4:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc2"><a name="Why You Shouldn't Get Into Microtonality-2. Changing tunings will not change who you are"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:4 -->2. Changing tunings will not change who you are</h2> | ||
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<br /> | <br /> | ||
<!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:16:&lt;h1&gt; --><h1 id="toc8"><a name="Critical reaction to the foregoing by Carl Lumma"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:16 -->Critical reaction to the foregoing by Carl Lumma</h1> | <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:16:&lt;h1&gt; --><h1 id="toc8"><a name="Critical reaction to the foregoing by Carl Lumma"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:16 -->Critical reaction to the foregoing by Carl Lumma</h1> | ||
<br /> | <em><span style="color: #ff0000;">(with responses by the original author in red italic)</span></em><br /> | ||
<br /> | |||
<em>&quot;Tuning doesn't make as much difference as you'd think&quot;</em><br /> | <em>&quot;Tuning doesn't make as much difference as you'd think&quot;</em><br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
...If you start with unreasonable expectations. Such as the expectation that refining one's control of intonation will &quot;automatically&quot; reveal &quot;new compositional approaches&quot; or allow one to &quot;lead a revolution&quot;.<br /> | ...If you start with unreasonable expectations. Such as the expectation that refining one's control of intonation will &quot;automatically&quot; reveal &quot;new compositional approaches&quot; or allow one to &quot;lead a revolution&quot;. <em><span style="color: #ff0000;">(Can you blame someone for such unreasonable expectations, given the shameless puff-pieces such as those linked at the bottom of this page? Where are the articles detailing the benefits one can reasonably hope to gain from microtonality?)</span></em><br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
<em>&quot;If anyone tells you that ETs all have distinct moods and personalities that are totally unlike anything found in 12-TET, this person has drank the kool-aid...&quot;</em><br /> | <em>&quot;If anyone tells you that ETs all have distinct moods and personalities that are totally unlike anything found in 12-TET, this person has drank the kool-aid...&quot;</em><br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
This would follow from evidence that people can't distinguish ETs, not from the evidence claimed, which is that people can't <strong>identify</strong> ETs. Many music fans can't identify scales or functional progressions in 12-ET, either. Is this an argument that all music could be I-V-I in 12-ET and it would make no difference?<br /> | This would follow from evidence that people can't distinguish ETs, not from the evidence claimed, which is that people can't <strong>identify</strong> ETs. <em><span style="color: #fe0606;">(Re-read the article; it was originally claimed that indeed, people can't <strong>distinguish</strong> ETs, let alone identify them.)</span></em> Many music fans can't identify scales or functional progressions in 12-ET, either. Is this an argument that all music could be I-V-I in 12-ET and it would make no difference? <em><span style="color: #ff0000;">(Actually, people can be trained to identify and distinguish between scales and functional progressions in 12-ET much more reliably than they can be taught to identify or distinguish between ETs).</span></em><br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
<em>&quot;The best microtonal musicians--the ones with the most commercial success--are those who keep a very healthy distance between themselves and the community.&quot;</em><br /> | <em>&quot;The best microtonal musicians--the ones with the most commercial success--are those who keep a very healthy distance between themselves and the community.&quot;</em><br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
Music isn't for talking. Plenty of musicians visit microtonal forums to share recordings -- what else? Theory works with talking, but theory isn't music and there's only so much of two subjects a person can master. At least one artist did manage to understand and prolifically apply all major xenharmonic theory concepts though: Chuckles McGee. Other theory-heavy successes include Kraig Grady, Marcus Hobbs, Ben Johnston, and Harry Partch. And serious theorists like Graham Breed have produced very listenable tracks.<br /> | Music isn't for talking. Plenty of musicians visit microtonal forums to share recordings -- what else? Theory works with talking, but theory isn't music and there's only so much of two subjects a person can master. At least one artist did manage to understand and prolifically apply all major xenharmonic theory concepts though: Chuckles McGee. Other theory-heavy successes include Kraig Grady, Marcus Hobbs, Ben Johnston, and Harry Partch. And serious theorists like Graham Breed have produced very listenable tracks.<br /> | ||
<em><span style="color: #ff0000;">(Missed the point that it is not theory per se, but active involvement in the community that is detrimental to one's music-making. Precisely because of the reasons you state--there's only so much of two subjects a person can master).</span></em><br /> | |||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
It's generally acknowledged that anyone hoping to achieve commercial success with music in today's climate is facing an uphill battle, and that this goes double for anyone walking off the beaten path.<br /> | It's generally acknowledged that anyone hoping to achieve commercial success with music in today's climate is facing an uphill battle, and that this goes double for anyone walking off the beaten path. <span style="color: #ff0000;"><em>(Yet why should it be, if microtonality offers distinct advantages over playing in 12-ET?)</em></span><br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
<em>&quot;...the fact of the matter is the microtonal community is desperate for music, and will laud output of any quality.&quot;</em><br /> | <em>&quot;...the fact of the matter is the microtonal community is desperate for music, and will laud output of any quality.&quot;</em><br /> | ||
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<em>&quot;12-TET is actually and objectively the best ET&quot;</em><br /> | <em>&quot;12-TET is actually and objectively the best ET&quot;</em><br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
Also probably true but it is not <strong>so much better</strong> than alternatives as to warrant <strong>exclusive use</strong>.<br /> | Also probably true but it is not <strong>so much better</strong> than alternatives as to warrant <strong>exclusive use</strong>. <em><span style="color: #ff0000;">(Which is no contention against the claim that these alternatives can hope at best to be no worse than 12-ET, and hardly a persuasive argument in favor of their use.)</span></em><br /> | ||
<br /> | <br /> | ||
<!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:18:&lt;h1&gt; --><h1 id="toc9"><a name="See also"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:18 -->See also</h1> | <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:18:&lt;h1&gt; --><h1 id="toc9"><a name="See also"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:18 -->See also</h1> | ||
<a class="wiki_link" href="/Why%20micotonality">Why micotonality</a>, <a class="wiki_link" href="/Whynotnotmicrotonality">Whynotnotmicrotonality</a>, <a class="wiki_link" href="/Damnrightmicrotonality">Damnrightmicrotonality</a></body></html></pre></div> | <a class="wiki_link" href="/Why%20micotonality">Why micotonality</a>, <a class="wiki_link" href="/Whynotnotmicrotonality">Whynotnotmicrotonality</a>, <a class="wiki_link" href="/Damnrightmicrotonality">Damnrightmicrotonality</a></body></html></pre></div> | ||