Kite's ups and downs notation: Difference between revisions

Wikispaces>TallKite
**Imported revision 587608403 - Original comment: **
Wikispaces>TallKite
**Imported revision 587608907 - Original comment: **
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<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
: This revision was by author [[User:TallKite|TallKite]] and made on <tt>2016-07-23 00:50:09 UTC</tt>.<br>
: This revision was by author [[User:TallKite|TallKite]] and made on <tt>2016-07-23 01:35:37 UTC</tt>.<br>
: The original revision id was <tt>587608403</tt>.<br>
: The original revision id was <tt>587608907</tt>.<br>
: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
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31edo: D * * * * E * * F * * * * G * * * * A etc. 2 keys per #/b.
31edo: D * * * * E * * F * * * * G * * * * A etc. 2 keys per #/b.
P1 ^P1 vm2 m2 vM2 M2 ^M2 vm3 m3 vM3 M3 ^M3 vP4 P4 ^P4 A4 d5 vP5 P5 etc.
P1 ^P1 vm2 m2 ~2 M2 ^M2 vm3 m3 ~3 M3 ^M3 vP4 P4 ^P4 A4 d5 vP5 P5 etc.
I ^I vbII bII vII II ^II vbIII bIII vIII III ^III vIV IV ^IV #IV bV vV V etc.
I ^I vbII bII vII II ^II vbIII bIII vIII III ^III vIV IV ^IV #IV bV vV V etc.
0-7-18 = D Fv A = D.vm
0-7-18 = D Fv A = D.vm
Line 424: Line 424:
0-11-18 = D F#^ A = D.^
0-11-18 = D F#^ A = D.^
0-12-18 = D Gv A = Dsusv4
0-12-18 = D Gv A = Dsusv4
41edo: C * * Db C# * * D
D * * * * * * E * * F * * * * * * G * * * * * * A * * * * * * B * * C * * * * * * D, 4 keys per sharp.
P1 ^P1 vm2 m2 ^m2 ~2 vM2 M2 ^M2 vm3 m3 ^m3 ~3 vM3 M3 ^M3 vP4 P4 ^P4 vd5 d5 A4/^d5 ^A4/vvP5 vP5 P5 etc.
I ^I vbII bII ^bII vvII vII II ^II vbIII bIII ^bIII vvIII vIII III ^III vIV IV ^IV vbV bV #IV ^#IV vV V etc.
0-7-24 = D E A = Dsus2
0-8-24 = D E^ A = Dsus^2
0-9-24 = D Fv A = D.vm
0-10-24 = D F A = Dm
0-11-24 = D F^ A = D.^m
0-12-24 = D F^^ A = D.~
0-13-24 = D F#v A = D.v
0-14-24 = D F# A = D (major)
0-15-24 = D F#^ A = D.^
0-16-24 = D Gv A = Dsusv4
0-17-24 = D G A = Dsus4
0-10-20 = D F Ab = Ddim
0-10-21 = D F Ab^ = Ddim(^5) or Dm(^b5)
0-10-22 = D F Avv = Dm(vv5)
0-10-23 = D F Av = Dm(v5)
0-14-25 = D F# A^ = D(^5) ("D up-five")
0-14-26 = D F# A^^ = D(^^5) ("D double-up-five")
0-14-27 = D F# A#v = Daug(v5) or D(v#5)
0-14-28 = D F# A# = Daug


==**__Cross-EDO considerations__**==  
==**__Cross-EDO considerations__**==  
Line 429: Line 455:
In 22edo, the major chord is 0-8-13 = 0¢-436¢-709¢. In 19edo, it's 0-6-11 = 0¢-379¢-695¢. The two chords sound quite different, because "major 3rd" is defined only in terms of the fifth, not in terms of what JI ratios it approximates. To describe the sound of the chord, color notation can be used. 22edo major chords sound red and 19edo major chords sound yellow.
In 22edo, the major chord is 0-8-13 = 0¢-436¢-709¢. In 19edo, it's 0-6-11 = 0¢-379¢-695¢. The two chords sound quite different, because "major 3rd" is defined only in terms of the fifth, not in terms of what JI ratios it approximates. To describe the sound of the chord, color notation can be used. 22edo major chords sound red and 19edo major chords sound yellow.


The name "major" refers not to the sound but to the function of the chord. If you want to play a I - VIm - IIm - V - I progression without pitch shifts or tonic drift, you can do that in any edo, as long as you use major and minor chords. The notation tells you what kind of chord can be used to play that progression. In 22edo, the chord that you need sounds like a red chord.
The name "major" refers not to the sound but to the function of the chord. If you want to play a I - VIm - IIm - V - I progression without pitch shifts or tonic drift, you can do that in any edo, as long as you use only major and minor chords. The notation tells you what kind of chord can be used to play that progression. In 22edo, the chord that you need sounds like a red chord.


In other words, I - VIm - IIm - V - I in JI implies Iy - VIg - IIg - Vy - Iy, but this implication only holds in certain EDOs. The notation tells you which ones. If 22edo's downmajor chord 0-7-13 = 0¢-382¢-709¢ were called "major", you wouldn't know that it doesn't work in that progression.
In other words, I - VIm - IIm - V - I in JI implies Iy - VIg - IIg - Vy - Iy, but this implication only holds in certain EDOs. The notation tells you which ones. If 22edo's downmajor chord 0-7-13 = 0¢-382¢-709¢ were called "major", you wouldn't know that it doesn't work in that progression.
Line 438: Line 464:
==__EDOs with an inaccurate 3/2__==  
==__EDOs with an inaccurate 3/2__==  


Not counting the trivial edos 2, 3, 4 and 6, there are only seven such edos. As seen in the above diagram, they are the ones to the left of the central line in the light blue region, plus the ones to the right of the central line in the orange region. The ones on the left edge of the blue region are the fourthward ones like 16edo, and have been dealt with already. 23edo can be notated similarly to 16edo by using a fifth of 13\23 instead of 14\23. That leaves only four edos: 8, 11, 13, and 18.
Not counting the trivial edos 2, 3, 4 and 6, there are only seven such edos. As seen in the above diagram, they are the ones to the left of the heptatonic kite's spine, plus the ones to the right of the pentatonic kite's spine. The ones on the left edge of the heptatonic kite are the fourthward ones like 16edo, and have been dealt with already. 23edo can be notated similarly to 16edo by using a fifth of 13\23 instead of 14\23. That leaves only four edos: 8, 11, 13, and 18.


There are two strategies for notating these "oddball" EDOs, besides heptatonic fifth-based notation with ups and downs. One is to switch from heptatonic notation to some other type. The orange region contains edos for which pentatonic notation is a natural fit, in the sense that no ups or downs are needed. This includes 8edo, 13edo and 18edo.
There are two strategies for notating these "oddball" EDOs, besides heptatonic fifth-based notation with ups and downs. One is to switch from heptatonic notation to some other type. The orange kite contains edos for which pentatonic notation is a natural fit, in the sense that no ups or downs are needed. This includes 8edo, 13edo and 18edo.


The other approach is to use some interval other than the fifth to generate the notation. Above I said notating 22edo using an even distribution of note names such as C _ _ D _ _ E _ _ F _ _ _ G _ _ A _ _ B _ _ C was a bad idea because the G-D and the A-E fifths looked perfect but were actually diminished. The reasoning is that 3/2 is an important ratio, and any decent approximation of 3/2 should look like a perfect fifth. But these EDOs don't approximate 3/2 well, so they can be thought of as having both a major fifth and a minor fifth. This negates any expectations of what a fifth should look like.
The other approach is to use some interval other than the fifth to generate the notation. Earlier I said notating 22edo using an even distribution of note names such as C _ _ D _ _ E _ _ F _ _ _ G _ _ A _ _ B _ _ C was a bad idea because the G-D and the A-E fifths looked perfect but were actually diminished. The reasoning is that 3/2 is an important ratio, and any decent approximation of 3/2 should look like a perfect fifth. But these EDOs don't approximate 3/2 well, so they can be thought of as having both a major fifth and a minor fifth. This negates any expectations of what a fifth should look like.




Line 804: Line 830:
Ra'e = ^M2, Ra'i = ^^M2, Ra'o = vM2, Ra'u = vvM2, Ra'a = ^^^M2
Ra'e = ^M2, Ra'i = ^^M2, Ra'o = vM2, Ra'u = vvM2, Ra'a = ^^^M2
etc.
etc.


==__Rank-2 Notation__==  
==__Rank-2 Notation__==  
Line 921: Line 948:
In 22-tone, positive genspans, which lie on the fifthward half of the genchain, create sharps and downs. Negative genspans, from the fourthward half of the genchain, create flats and ups.
In 22-tone, positive genspans, which lie on the fifthward half of the genchain, create sharps and downs. Negative genspans, from the fourthward half of the genchain, create flats and ups.


The genspan for the up symbol in 22-tone can be found from the Tree of Kites. Or it can be calculated from the keyspans:
The genspan for the up symbol in 22-tone can be found from the Tree of Kites. Or it can be derived more rigorously if calculated from the keyspans:


K(^) = +1, K(v) = -1 (by definition, the keyspan of an up is 1)
K(^) = +1, K(v) = -1 (by definition, the keyspan of an up is 1)
Line 1,533: Line 1,560:
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
31edo: D * * * * E * * F * * * * G * * * * A etc. 2 keys per #/b.&lt;br /&gt;
31edo: D * * * * E * * F * * * * G * * * * A etc. 2 keys per #/b.&lt;br /&gt;
P1 ^P1 vm2 m2 vM2 M2 ^M2 vm3 m3 vM3 M3 ^M3 vP4 P4 ^P4 A4 d5 vP5 P5 etc.&lt;br /&gt;
P1 ^P1 vm2 m2 ~2 M2 ^M2 vm3 m3 ~3 M3 ^M3 vP4 P4 ^P4 A4 d5 vP5 P5 etc.&lt;br /&gt;
I ^I vbII bII vII II ^II vbIII bIII vIII III ^III vIV IV ^IV #IV bV vV V etc.&lt;br /&gt;
I ^I vbII bII vII II ^II vbIII bIII vIII III ^III vIV IV ^IV #IV bV vV V etc.&lt;br /&gt;
0-7-18 = D Fv A = D.vm&lt;br /&gt;
0-7-18 = D Fv A = D.vm&lt;br /&gt;
Line 1,541: Line 1,568:
0-11-18 = D F#^ A = D.^&lt;br /&gt;
0-11-18 = D F#^ A = D.^&lt;br /&gt;
0-12-18 = D Gv A = Dsusv4&lt;br /&gt;
0-12-18 = D Gv A = Dsusv4&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
41edo: C * * Db C# * * D&lt;br /&gt;
D * * * * * * E * * F * * * * * * G * * * * * * A * * * * * * B * * C * * * * * * D, 4 keys per sharp.&lt;br /&gt;
P1 ^P1 vm2 m2 ^m2 ~2 vM2 M2 ^M2 vm3 m3 ^m3 ~3 vM3 M3 ^M3 vP4 P4 ^P4 vd5 d5 A4/^d5 ^A4/vvP5 vP5 P5 etc.&lt;br /&gt;
I ^I vbII bII ^bII vvII vII II ^II vbIII bIII ^bIII vvIII vIII III ^III vIV IV ^IV vbV bV #IV ^#IV vV V etc.&lt;br /&gt;
0-7-24 = D E A = Dsus2&lt;br /&gt;
0-8-24 = D E^ A = Dsus^2&lt;br /&gt;
0-9-24 = D Fv A = D.vm&lt;br /&gt;
0-10-24 = D F A = Dm&lt;br /&gt;
0-11-24 = D F^ A = D.^m&lt;br /&gt;
0-12-24 = D F^^ A = D.~&lt;br /&gt;
0-13-24 = D F#v A = D.v&lt;br /&gt;
0-14-24 = D F# A = D (major)&lt;br /&gt;
0-15-24 = D F#^ A = D.^&lt;br /&gt;
0-16-24 = D Gv A = Dsusv4&lt;br /&gt;
0-17-24 = D G A = Dsus4&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
0-10-20 = D F Ab = Ddim&lt;br /&gt;
0-10-21 = D F Ab^ = Ddim(^5) or Dm(^b5)&lt;br /&gt;
0-10-22 = D F Avv = Dm(vv5)&lt;br /&gt;
0-10-23 = D F Av = Dm(v5)&lt;br /&gt;
0-14-25 = D F# A^ = D(^5) (&amp;quot;D up-five&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
0-14-26 = D F# A^^ = D(^^5) (&amp;quot;D double-up-five&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
0-14-27 = D F# A#v = Daug(v5) or D(v#5)&lt;br /&gt;
0-14-28 = D F# A# = Daug&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:16:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc8"&gt;&lt;a name="Naming Chords-Cross-EDO considerations"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:16 --&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;u&gt;Cross-EDO considerations&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;
&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:16:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc8"&gt;&lt;a name="Naming Chords-Cross-EDO considerations"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:16 --&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;u&gt;Cross-EDO considerations&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;
Line 1,546: Line 1,599:
In 22edo, the major chord is 0-8-13 = 0¢-436¢-709¢. In 19edo, it's 0-6-11 = 0¢-379¢-695¢. The two chords sound quite different, because &amp;quot;major 3rd&amp;quot; is defined only in terms of the fifth, not in terms of what JI ratios it approximates. To describe the sound of the chord, color notation can be used. 22edo major chords sound red and 19edo major chords sound yellow.&lt;br /&gt;
In 22edo, the major chord is 0-8-13 = 0¢-436¢-709¢. In 19edo, it's 0-6-11 = 0¢-379¢-695¢. The two chords sound quite different, because &amp;quot;major 3rd&amp;quot; is defined only in terms of the fifth, not in terms of what JI ratios it approximates. To describe the sound of the chord, color notation can be used. 22edo major chords sound red and 19edo major chords sound yellow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The name &amp;quot;major&amp;quot; refers not to the sound but to the function of the chord. If you want to play a I - VIm - IIm - V - I progression without pitch shifts or tonic drift, you can do that in any edo, as long as you use major and minor chords. The notation tells you what kind of chord can be used to play that progression. In 22edo, the chord that you need sounds like a red chord.&lt;br /&gt;
The name &amp;quot;major&amp;quot; refers not to the sound but to the function of the chord. If you want to play a I - VIm - IIm - V - I progression without pitch shifts or tonic drift, you can do that in any edo, as long as you use only major and minor chords. The notation tells you what kind of chord can be used to play that progression. In 22edo, the chord that you need sounds like a red chord.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, I - VIm - IIm - V - I in JI implies Iy - VIg - IIg - Vy - Iy, but this implication only holds in certain EDOs. The notation tells you which ones. If 22edo's downmajor chord 0-7-13 = 0¢-382¢-709¢ were called &amp;quot;major&amp;quot;, you wouldn't know that it doesn't work in that progression.&lt;br /&gt;
In other words, I - VIm - IIm - V - I in JI implies Iy - VIg - IIg - Vy - Iy, but this implication only holds in certain EDOs. The notation tells you which ones. If 22edo's downmajor chord 0-7-13 = 0¢-382¢-709¢ were called &amp;quot;major&amp;quot;, you wouldn't know that it doesn't work in that progression.&lt;br /&gt;
Line 1,555: Line 1,608:
&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:18:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc9"&gt;&lt;a name="Naming Chords-EDOs with an inaccurate 3/2"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:18 --&gt;&lt;u&gt;EDOs with an inaccurate 3/2&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;
&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:18:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc9"&gt;&lt;a name="Naming Chords-EDOs with an inaccurate 3/2"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:18 --&gt;&lt;u&gt;EDOs with an inaccurate 3/2&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;
  &lt;br /&gt;
  &lt;br /&gt;
Not counting the trivial edos 2, 3, 4 and 6, there are only seven such edos. As seen in the above diagram, they are the ones to the left of the central line in the light blue region, plus the ones to the right of the central line in the orange region. The ones on the left edge of the blue region are the fourthward ones like 16edo, and have been dealt with already. 23edo can be notated similarly to 16edo by using a fifth of 13\23 instead of 14\23. That leaves only four edos: 8, 11, 13, and 18.&lt;br /&gt;
Not counting the trivial edos 2, 3, 4 and 6, there are only seven such edos. As seen in the above diagram, they are the ones to the left of the heptatonic kite's spine, plus the ones to the right of the pentatonic kite's spine. The ones on the left edge of the heptatonic kite are the fourthward ones like 16edo, and have been dealt with already. 23edo can be notated similarly to 16edo by using a fifth of 13\23 instead of 14\23. That leaves only four edos: 8, 11, 13, and 18.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are two strategies for notating these &amp;quot;oddball&amp;quot; EDOs, besides heptatonic fifth-based notation with ups and downs. One is to switch from heptatonic notation to some other type. The orange region contains edos for which pentatonic notation is a natural fit, in the sense that no ups or downs are needed. This includes 8edo, 13edo and 18edo.&lt;br /&gt;
There are two strategies for notating these &amp;quot;oddball&amp;quot; EDOs, besides heptatonic fifth-based notation with ups and downs. One is to switch from heptatonic notation to some other type. The orange kite contains edos for which pentatonic notation is a natural fit, in the sense that no ups or downs are needed. This includes 8edo, 13edo and 18edo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other approach is to use some interval other than the fifth to generate the notation. Above I said notating 22edo using an even distribution of note names such as C _ _ D _ _ E _ _ F _ _ _ G _ _ A _ _ B _ _ C was a bad idea because the G-D and the A-E fifths looked perfect but were actually diminished. The reasoning is that 3/2 is an important ratio, and any decent approximation of 3/2 should look like a perfect fifth. But these EDOs don't approximate 3/2 well, so they can be thought of as having both a major fifth and a minor fifth. This negates any expectations of what a fifth should look like.&lt;br /&gt;
The other approach is to use some interval other than the fifth to generate the notation. Earlier I said notating 22edo using an even distribution of note names such as C _ _ D _ _ E _ _ F _ _ _ G _ _ A _ _ B _ _ C was a bad idea because the G-D and the A-E fifths looked perfect but were actually diminished. The reasoning is that 3/2 is an important ratio, and any decent approximation of 3/2 should look like a perfect fifth. But these EDOs don't approximate 3/2 well, so they can be thought of as having both a major fifth and a minor fifth. This negates any expectations of what a fifth should look like.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Line 3,222: Line 3,275:
Ra'e = ^M2, Ra'i = ^^M2, Ra'o = vM2, Ra'u = vvM2, Ra'a = ^^^M2&lt;br /&gt;
Ra'e = ^M2, Ra'i = ^^M2, Ra'o = vM2, Ra'u = vvM2, Ra'a = ^^^M2&lt;br /&gt;
etc.&lt;br /&gt;
etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:38:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc19"&gt;&lt;a name="Summary of EDO notation-Rank-2 Notation"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:38 --&gt;&lt;u&gt;Rank-2 Notation&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;
&lt;!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:38:&amp;lt;h2&amp;gt; --&gt;&lt;h2 id="toc19"&gt;&lt;a name="Summary of EDO notation-Rank-2 Notation"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:38 --&gt;&lt;u&gt;Rank-2 Notation&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;
Line 4,108: Line 4,162:
In 22-tone, positive genspans, which lie on the fifthward half of the genchain, create sharps and downs. Negative genspans, from the fourthward half of the genchain, create flats and ups.&lt;br /&gt;
In 22-tone, positive genspans, which lie on the fifthward half of the genchain, create sharps and downs. Negative genspans, from the fourthward half of the genchain, create flats and ups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The genspan for the up symbol in 22-tone can be found from the Tree of Kites. Or it can be calculated from the keyspans:&lt;br /&gt;
The genspan for the up symbol in 22-tone can be found from the Tree of Kites. Or it can be derived more rigorously if calculated from the keyspans:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
K(^) = +1, K(v) = -1 (by definition, the keyspan of an up is 1)&lt;br /&gt;
K(^) = +1, K(v) = -1 (by definition, the keyspan of an up is 1)&lt;br /&gt;