Talk:Patent val: Difference between revisions

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::::: I'd also like to note that "exact edomapping" makes sense but "exact map" or "exact mapping" doesn't. Because there's no point in generalizing the meantone mapping [⟨1 0 -4], ⟨0 1 4]]. Point being, there are times when one wants to say edomapping not mapping (see my comment in the "simple map" discussion above). --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 08:09, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

:::::: I agree that "uniform" is not self-explanatory. But I don't think self-explanatory-ness should be a target for terminology. I think it's only necessary that terms are descriptive. I think "generalized patent val" is also not self-explanatory, so it's not a relative point against "uniform map".

:::::: Unfortunately, I'm having trouble figuring out how best to reply to the rest of your thoughts and suggestions here. As you admit, you feel confused about what precisely this concept is, and it seems likely to me that you do have some misconception about it, because I can't follow much of your thinking, or reconcile many of your statements with my understanding of the ideas here. So perhaps we should both pause making suggestions or criticisms involving terminology, and first make sure that we're all on the same page about the structure itself.

:::::: I love visual explanations myself and hope that this one will be helpful to you, too. Uniform maps (or GPVs) finally clicked for me when a guy on the Discord server named Dead Shaman shared a special type of chart with me. I adapted his chart for use in my RTT How-To, where I explain that a uniform map is any map that can be found at a vertical line drawn through it. Here's an example (there's a lot of other stuff going on in these charts that's not necessary, so no need to understand everything):

[[File:Near linings up rare2.png|thumb|center|700px]]

:::::: And that is why the example you were surprised about, {{map|17 27 40}}, is indeed a uniform map, because you can see it drawn as such a vertical line in another area of that chart, as seen here:

[[File:17-ET.png|thumb|center|200px]]

:::::: Please let me know if this explanation helps, or if you have any other questions. FloraC and I have also provided alternative explanations of the concept in our discussion above that aren't present in the article itself (yet... maybe we'll rework it soon), so if you are unfamiliar with those explanations, they may prove helpful as well. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 16:48, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

@@ Line 109: / Line 109: @@
 ::::: I'd also like to note that "exact edomapping" makes sense but "exact map" or "exact mapping" doesn't. Because there's no point in generalizing the meantone mapping [⟨1 0 -4], ⟨0 1 4]]. Point being, there are times when one wants to say edomapping not mapping (see my comment in the "simple map" discussion above). --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 08:09, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
+:::::: I agree that "uniform" is not self-explanatory. But I don't think self-explanatory-ness should be a target for terminology. I think it's only necessary that terms are descriptive. I think "generalized patent val" is also not self-explanatory, so it's not a relative point against "uniform map".
+:::::: Unfortunately, I'm having trouble figuring out how best to reply to the rest of your thoughts and suggestions here. As you admit, you feel confused about what precisely this concept is, and it seems likely to me that you do have some misconception about it, because I can't follow much of your thinking, or reconcile many of your statements with my understanding of the ideas here. So perhaps we should both pause making suggestions or criticisms involving terminology, and first make sure that we're all on the same page about the structure itself.
+:::::: I love visual explanations myself and hope that this one will be helpful to you, too. Uniform maps (or GPVs) finally clicked for me when a guy on the Discord server named Dead Shaman shared a special type of chart with me. I adapted his chart for use in my RTT How-To, where I explain that a uniform map is any map that can be found at a vertical line drawn through it. Here's an example (there's a lot of other stuff going on in these charts that's not necessary, so no need to understand everything):
+[[File:Near linings up rare2.png|thumb|center|700px]]
+:::::: And that is why the example you were surprised about, {{map|17 27 40}}, is indeed a uniform map, because you can see it drawn as such a vertical line in another area of that chart, as seen here:
+[[File:17-ET.png|thumb|center|200px]]
+:::::: Please let me know if this explanation helps, or if you have any other questions. FloraC and I have also provided alternative explanations of the concept in our discussion above that aren't present in the article itself (yet... maybe we'll rework it soon), so if you are unfamiliar with those explanations, they may prove helpful as well. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin|talk]]) 16:48, 28 September 2021 (UTC)