Talk:Septischismic family: Difference between revisions

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:: On the garischismic stuff you're right; we could pull a 180 and call [25 -14 0 -1⟩ ''garyma'' or ''garisma'', freeing ourselves of the "schismic" association. Now that you mention it, we could have gary for 2.3.7/2.3.7.11, garic for 7-limit and 11-limit, willy for 2.3.5.13(.19), and some portmanteau for the rank-3 that has all. Wilgar? Possibly something new like ''Erin''? --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 17:18, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

:::I wouldn’t want to rename a temperament based on one person’s opinions alone. We need to hold some sort of community vote or something.[[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]] 17:27, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

::: I wouldn’t want to rename a temperament based on one person’s opinions alone. We need to hold some sort of community vote or something. Plus, if we’re disassociating non-schismic commas/temperaments from schismic, then what about the [[syntonoschisma]], [[slendroschisma]], and possibly ones I don’t even know about? [[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]] 17:27, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

:::: Let it be held then. I will say however, I don't really care about people changing temps of names if as there's a good reason to change it, like dissociation from a very common temp (like schismic or slendric) or following standard patterns. --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 17:57, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

::: I don't think ''garisma'' fixes it as it's still associated with garibaldi. We have many ''-schismic'' names so I don't think that alone constitutes a problem either. I'm in principle not against renaming ''cassaschismic'' but I'm only willing to consider canonicalizing it w.r.t. one of the temps I mentioned above (including dual-naming). —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:31, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

:::: I should add I prefer ''septischisma'' or even ''septigarysma'' to ''garischisma'', like what we have as ''ennealimma''–''septiennealimma''. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 07:16, 18 July 2026 (UTC)

::: I agree with FloraC here. It’s not much of a problem. [[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]] 19:03, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

So Eufalesio and I came to the agreement that the names of this family of temps need another round of assessment.

I maintain that ''septischisma'' is the ideal name for the comma. The derived temp name ''septischismic'' mirrors ''aberschismic'' and ''orthoschismic''. However, this poses the problem of how to name the 2.3.7-subgroup temp. (As a rule, we don't apply the first declension to ''-schisma'', resulting in ''-schic''.) Not changing ''gary'' is an option, but ideally we'd want a name that rivals the monumentality of ''schismic''.

Alternatively, ''septigarisma'' captures the nature that this is the 2.3.7 comma tempered out in garibaldi, and provides the names ''septigarismic'' and ''septigaric'' for the 2.3.5.7 and 2.3.7 temps.

''Garisma'', as I said, doesn't fix any problem, tho its derived temp names ''garismic'' and ''garic'' are neat.

Then we have cassaschismic, and the question of whether it's canonical w.r.t. garischismic or will. It looks like will and cassachismic aren't as closely related as garischismic and cassaschismic are. I'd say it's best to treat will and cassaschismic as separate temps, so renaming cassaschismic based on ''will'' is off the table.

Eufalesio proposes ''ultimate''. I'm afraid this creates ambiguities as ''ultimate'' describes a subjective quality that will mean differently to different ppl. In the spirit that rename should demonstrate clear benefits, I think there are only two options for this: either we make it canonical, adopting the changed name of garischismic, or we don't change anything.

—[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 14:25, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

: I don’t think ''ultimate'' is a good name, but septischisma/septimal schisma could work (though I don’t fully support renaming this temp yet). [[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]] 15:56, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

: Septigaric is good for the 2.3.7 version, possibly ''septigar'' and have the comma be the ''septigarsma'' or ''septigar comma''. But how do you call the 2.3.7.11 version? Undegaric? Garylympian?

: Septigarismic/septigaric follows through with the established patterns, but I'd leave that only for the 7-limit version. For 11-limit and above, ''garylympic'' is a better fit, useful all the way to the 19-limit version.

: As for ''Ultimate'', I make a case that a rename to this demonstrates clear benefits, beyond subjectivity, measured and compared with other alternative sequences that make fierce competition. The rename is an advertisement for what this temperament represents: a detemperament sequence's practical end. --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 16:48, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

:: in my DMs with Eufalesio I stated that the only the higher-limit version should be called ''ultimate''. The 7-limit or 2.3.7 version can keep its current name or get renamed. [[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]] 18:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

:: Well you can't think inside others' minds and say it's the ultimate temp beyond subjectivity. ''Ultimate'' is so much of an everyday word that ppl will always use it their own ways. If you had a more literary way to express the idea, that would be much better.

:: Coming back to the ''septi-'' names, I don't think it needs to be changed for extensions beyond the 7-limit if they are canonical, which means you just refer to it by ''undecimal septischismic''/''septigarismic''. But is the 11-limit extension is canonical? I've heard some in the community argue that cassandra should be dual-named as ''undecimal garibaldi'', thus setting it canonical, which would imply that cassaschismic should prolly be also. I don't feel strongly about this and would be okay either way (plus the possibility of dual-naming); arguably the quality of the names matters more.

:: —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:51, 13 August 2026 (UTC)

::: The ultimate temp is obviously 7-limit marvel. (Semi-serious. Other candidates appear increasingly subjective, for example the ultimate rank 1 temp appears to be 31et in the 11-limit as a system with primarily 7-limit focus.) In regards to the name, I don't see why the name needs to be changed tbh? I'm quite used to it. What's the issue with the current name? --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 16:26, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

:::: It's not a problematic name, just suboptimal. Is there a sign in the combination of ''garibaldi'' and ''schisma'' that points to the 2.3.7 subgroup? There is not. So what I'm gonna do is to replace ''gari-'' with ''septi-'', reflecting its nature as the schisma of 2.3.7. Specifically:

::::* Garischisma → septischisma

::::* Garischismic → septischismic

::::* Cassaschismic → (undecimal) septischismic

:::: I think I'll leave gary unchanged, until someone has an idea.

:::: —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 16:57, 14 August 2026 (UTC)

::::: I would rather have more community members share their opinions before a temp is renamed. [[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]] 23:32, 15 August 2026 (UTC)

:::::: We'll do it thru a poll then. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 10:07, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

=== Poll ===

Sign your name with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>. You may vote for multiple candidates. You may add your own proposals.

; Septischisma – septischismic (full 7-limit temp), gary comma – gary (no-5 7-limit temp)

: [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 10:07, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

: --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 10:14, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

::Septischisma/septischismic should be the main name, but garischisma/mic should be a co-official name instead of a deprecated name. [[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]] 15:01, 17 August 2026 (UTC)

; Garischisma – garyschismic (full 7-limit temp), gary comma – gary (no-5 7-limit temp)

: [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 10:07, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

: --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 13:07, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

; [see explanation of my vote]

: I'd like to vote for whichever name is behind by more than 1 vote, to discourage arbitrary decisions based on extremely small margins. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 13:19, 16 August 2026 (UTC)

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 :: On the garischismic stuff you're right; we could pull a 180 and call [25 -14 0 -1⟩ ''garyma'' or ''garisma'', freeing ourselves of the "schismic" association. Now that you mention it, we could have gary for 2.3.7/2.3.7.11, garic for 7-limit and 11-limit, willy for 2.3.5.13(.19), and some portmanteau for the rank-3 that has all. Wilgar? Possibly something new like ''Erin''? --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 17:18, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
-:::I wouldn’t want to rename a temperament based on one person’s opinions alone. We need to hold some sort of community vote or something.<span style="display: inline-block;transform: rotate(15deg);background:#E1EBF2;font-family:Verdana;text-shadow: 3px 3px 4px #0008;">[[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]]</span> 17:27, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
+::: I wouldn’t want to rename a temperament based on one person’s opinions alone. We need to hold some sort of community vote or something. Plus, if we’re disassociating non-schismic commas/temperaments from schismic, then what about the [[syntonoschisma]], [[slendroschisma]], and possibly ones I don’t even know about? <span style="display: inline-block;transform: rotate(15deg);background:#E1EBF2;font-family:Verdana;text-shadow: 3px 3px 4px #0008;">[[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]]</span> 17:27, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
+:::: Let it be held then. I will say however, I don't really care about people changing temps of names if as there's a good reason to change it, like dissociation from a very common temp (like schismic or slendric) or following standard patterns. --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 17:57, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
+::: I don't think ''garisma'' fixes it as it's still associated with garibaldi. We have many ''-schismic'' names so I don't think that alone constitutes a problem either. I'm in principle not against renaming ''cassaschismic'' but I'm only willing to consider canonicalizing it w.r.t. one of the temps I mentioned above (including dual-naming). —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:31, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
+:::: I should add I prefer ''septischisma'' or even ''septigarysma'' to ''garischisma'', like what we have as ''ennealimma''–''septiennealimma''. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 07:16, 18 July 2026 (UTC)
+::: I agree with FloraC here. It’s not much of a problem. <span style="display: inline-block;transform: rotate(15deg);background:#E1EBF2;font-family:Verdana;text-shadow: 3px 3px 4px #0008;">[[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]]</span> 19:03, 30 April 2026 (UTC)
+So Eufalesio and I came to the agreement that the names of this family of temps need another round of assessment.
+I maintain that ''septischisma'' is the ideal name for the comma. The derived temp name ''septischismic'' mirrors ''aberschismic'' and ''orthoschismic''. However, this poses the problem of how to name the 2.3.7-subgroup temp. (As a rule, we don't apply the first declension to ''-schisma'', resulting in ''-schic''.) Not changing ''gary'' is an option, but ideally we'd want a name that rivals the monumentality of ''schismic''.
+Alternatively, ''septigarisma'' captures the nature that this is the 2.3.7 comma tempered out in garibaldi, and provides the names ''septigarismic'' and ''septigaric'' for the 2.3.5.7 and 2.3.7 temps.
+''Garisma'', as I said, doesn't fix any problem, tho its derived temp names ''garismic'' and ''garic'' are neat.
+Then we have cassaschismic, and the question of whether it's canonical w.r.t. garischismic or will. It looks like will and cassachismic aren't as closely related as garischismic and cassaschismic are. I'd say it's best to treat will and cassaschismic as separate temps, so renaming cassaschismic based on ''will'' is off the table.
+Eufalesio proposes ''ultimate''. I'm afraid this creates ambiguities as ''ultimate'' describes a subjective quality that will mean differently to different ppl. In the spirit that rename should demonstrate clear benefits, I think there are only two options for this: either we make it canonical, adopting the changed name of garischismic, or we don't change anything.
+—[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 14:25, 13 August 2026 (UTC)
+: I don’t think ''ultimate'' is a good name, but septischisma/septimal schisma could work (though I don’t fully support renaming this temp yet). <span style="display: inline-block;transform: rotate(15deg);background:#E1EBF2;font-family:Verdana;text-shadow: 3px 3px 4px #0008;">[[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]]</span> 15:56, 13 August 2026 (UTC)
+: Septigaric is good for the 2.3.7 version, possibly ''septigar'' and have the comma be the ''septigarsma'' or ''septigar comma''. But how do you call the 2.3.7.11 version? Undegaric? Garylympian?
+: Septigarismic/septigaric follows through with the established patterns, but I'd leave that only for the 7-limit version. For 11-limit and above, ''garylympic'' is a better fit, useful all the way to the 19-limit version.
+: As for ''Ultimate'', I make a case that a rename to this demonstrates clear benefits, beyond subjectivity, measured and compared with other alternative sequences that make fierce competition. The rename is an advertisement for what this temperament represents: a detemperament sequence's practical end.  --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 16:48, 13 August 2026 (UTC)
+:: in my DMs with Eufalesio I stated that the only the higher-limit version should be called ''ultimate''. The 7-limit or 2.3.7 version can keep its current name or get renamed. <span style="display: inline-block;transform: rotate(15deg);background:#E1EBF2;font-family:Verdana;text-shadow: 3px 3px 4px #0008;">[[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]]</span> 18:06, 13 August 2026 (UTC)
+:: Well you can't think inside others' minds and say it's the ultimate temp beyond subjectivity. ''Ultimate'' is so much of an everyday word that ppl will always use it their own ways. If you had a more literary way to express the idea, that would be much better.
+:: Coming back to the ''septi-'' names, I don't think it needs to be changed for extensions beyond the 7-limit if they are canonical, which means you just refer to it by ''undecimal septischismic''/''septigarismic''. But is the 11-limit extension is canonical? I've heard some in the community argue that cassandra should be dual-named as ''undecimal garibaldi'', thus setting it canonical, which would imply that cassaschismic should prolly be also. I don't feel strongly about this and would be okay either way (plus the possibility of dual-naming); arguably the quality of the names matters more.
+:: —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 18:51, 13 August 2026 (UTC)
+::: The ultimate temp is obviously 7-limit marvel. (Semi-serious. Other candidates appear increasingly subjective, for example the ultimate rank 1 temp appears to be 31et in the 11-limit as a system with primarily 7-limit focus.) In regards to the name, I don't see why the name needs to be changed tbh? I'm quite used to it. What's the issue with the current name? --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 16:26, 14 August 2026 (UTC)
+:::: It's not a problematic name, just suboptimal. Is there a sign in the combination of ''garibaldi'' and ''schisma'' that points to the 2.3.7 subgroup? There is not. So what I'm gonna do is to replace ''gari-'' with ''septi-'', reflecting its nature as the schisma of 2.3.7. Specifically:
+::::* Garischisma → septischisma
+::::* Garischismic → septischismic
+::::* Cassaschismic → (undecimal) septischismic
+:::: I think I'll leave gary unchanged, until someone has an idea.
+:::: —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 16:57, 14 August 2026 (UTC)
+::::: I would rather have more community members share their opinions before a temp is renamed. <span style="display: inline-block;transform: rotate(15deg);background:#E1EBF2;font-family:Verdana;text-shadow: 3px 3px 4px #0008;">[[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]]</span> 23:32, 15 August 2026 (UTC)
+:::::: We'll do it thru a poll then. —[[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 10:07, 16 August 2026 (UTC)
+=== Poll ===
+Sign your name with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>. You may vote for multiple candidates. You may add your own proposals.
+; Septischisma – septischismic (full 7-limit temp), gary comma – gary (no-5 7-limit temp)
+: [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 10:07, 16 August 2026 (UTC)
+: --[[User:Eufalesio|Eufalesio]] ([[User talk:Eufalesio|talk]]) 10:14, 16 August 2026 (UTC)
+::Septischisma/septischismic should be the main name, but garischisma/mic should be a co-official name instead of a deprecated name. <span style="display: inline-block;transform: rotate(15deg);background:#E1EBF2;font-family:Verdana;text-shadow: 3px 3px 4px #0008;">[[User:Hotcrystal0|hotcrysta]][[User talk: Hotcrystal0|l0]]</span> 15:01, 17 August 2026 (UTC)
+; Garischisma – garyschismic (full 7-limit temp), gary comma – gary (no-5 7-limit temp)
+: [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 10:07, 16 August 2026 (UTC)
+: --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 13:07, 16 August 2026 (UTC)
+; [see explanation of my vote]
+: I'd like to vote for whichever name is behind by more than 1 vote, to discourage arbitrary decisions based on extremely small margins. --[[User:Godtone|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone|talk]]) 13:19, 16 August 2026 (UTC)