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| <h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2> | | <span style="font-size: 150%;">'''Tuning systems for the qanun'''</span> |
| This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
| | __FORCETOC__ |
| : This revision was by author [[User:hstraub|hstraub]] and made on <tt>2011-08-20 06:10:29 UTC</tt>.<br>
| | Julien Jalaleddine Weiss, used with permission. |
| : The original revision id was <tt>247154313</tt>.<br>
| |
| : The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
| |
| The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
| |
| <h4>Original Wikitext content:</h4>
| |
| <div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html"><span style="font-size: 150%;">**Tuning systems for the qanun**</span>
| |
| Julien Jalaleddine Weiss | |
| Reference: Pohlit, Stefan. 2011. Julien Jalâl Ed-Dine Weiss – A New Qānūn System: Its Application in the Performance
| |
| Practice of the Ensemble “Al-Kindi” and in Contemporary Western Music. PhD Thesis, MIAM/Istanbul Technical
| |
| University.
| |
|
| |
|
| [[toc]]
| | Reference: Pohlit, Stefan. 2011. Julien Jalâl Ed-Dine Weiss – A New Qānūn System: Its Application in the Performance Practice of the Ensemble “Al-Kindi” and in Contemporary Western Music. PhD Thesis, MIAM/Istanbul Technical University. |
| =Explanation=
| |
| The tuning tables on this page are specifically designed for the tuning system of the [[qanun]] (see the link for details on the system of tuning and playing a qanun with "mandals/orabs").
| |
|
| |
|
| The whole table covers roughly the range of a fourth (the range where the ajnas - maqam tetrachords - reside). Each row corresponds to one string of the qanun. In the first column stands the basic (relative) tuning of a string while the following columns indicate possible intervals that can be reached via lowering the mandals/orabs.
| | Online version of Stefan Pohlit's dissertation: see [http://stefanpohlit.com/dissertation.engl..htm http://stefanpohlit.com/dissertation.engl..htm] |
|
| |
|
| The first table contains the cent values and the second the just intervals, sometimes differing between ascending and descending ratios. | | The tuning tables on this page are specifically designed for the tuning system of the [[qanun|qanun]] (see the link for details on the system of tuning and playing a qanun with mandals/orabs). The logic behind the systems is as follows: |
|
| |
|
| Any given configuration of mandal/orab positions, resulting in a certain set of pitches that can be played at a given time
| | The empty strings of the qanun are tuned to a pythagorean diatonic scale, with a major third of [[81/64|81/64]], a major sixth of [[27/16|27/16]] and a major seventh of [[243/128|243/128]]. |
| (base for a maqam tetrachord) is represented by a choice of one cell in each row.
| |
|
| |
|
| =Older systems=
| | The possible pitches of a string obtained via raising/lowering the mandals lie within two [[2187/2048|apotomes (2187/2048, 113.7 cents)]]. The base note is assumed in the middle. The mandals allow raising and lowering this note by maximally one apotome. |
| ==First System J.J.Weiss==
| |
| Inequal subdivision of the [[2187_2048|apotome (2187/2048, 113.7 cents)]] into 7 parts (8 mandals/orabs), in the following manner:
| |
| * Subdivision into one [[81_80|syntonic comma (81/80, 21.5 cents)]], one [[25_24|Zarlinian semitone (25/24, 70.7 cents)]] and another syntonic comma.
| |
| * Further subdivision of 25/24 into 65/64 (26 cents), 144/143 (12 cents) and 55/54 (32 cents).
| |
| * 65/64 and 55/54 are each split into two.
| |
|
| |
|
| This gives the following interval positions of the mandals: 22, 13, 13, 12, 16, 16, 22 cents.
| | Each apotome is divided into 7 unequal parts, which requires 14 mandals per string. The first rough subdivision of the apotome is always into one [[81/80|syntonic comma (81/80, 21.5 cents)]], one [[25/24|Zarlinian semitone (25/24, 70.7 cents)]] and another syntonic comma. The middle part (25/24, Zarlinian semitone) is then further subdivided into 5 (unequal or equal) parts. The various systems differ mainly in the division of the middle part. |
| Luthier: Ejder Gulec
| |
|
| |
|
| Interval Table (cents):
| | The tuning systems are all described by a series of cent values, which describe the subdivision of one apotome. According to the system sketched above, the first and the last value are always 22 cents (or 21.5 cents). This subdivision pattern occurs twice on each string, altogether 14 times per octave. This is followed by listings of some important rational intervals that are possible in this tuning, mainly in the range of a fourth (the range where the ajnas - maqam [[tetrachord|tetrachords]] - reside), |
| || 0 || 22 || 35 || 48 || 60 || 76 || 92 || 114 ||
| |
| || 90 || 112 || 125 || 138 || 150 || 166 || 182 || 204 ||
| |
| || 294 || 316 || 330 || 342 || 354 || 370 || 386 || 408 ||
| |
| || 384 || 406 || 420 || 432 || 444 || 460 || 476 || 498 ||
| |
| || 498 || 520 || 533 || 546 || 558 || 574 || 590 || 612 ||
| |
|
| |
|
| Interval table of just intervals (ascending, descending):
| | An notable property (of all systems) is that the second-highest mandal position of, say, the C string is 114-22=92 cents (the [[135/128|major limma]]), while the lowest mandal position on the following string (D in the example) is 214 (one wholetone above C) - 114 = 90 cents (the [[256/243|pythagorean limma]], the same interval as between E and F) - we have two notes differing by one [[32805/32768|schisma (2 cents)]]. So the interval of the schisma is present and can be played on a qanun in any of the tuning systems described here. |
| || 1/1 || 81/80 || 49/48 || 1053/1024 || 729/704 || 2673/2560 || 135/128 || 2187/2048 ||
| |
| || 256/243 || 16/15 || 784/729, 128/119, 43/40 (asc.)
| |
| 320/297 (desc.) || 13/12 (asc.)
| |
| 88/81 (desc.) || 12/11 (asc.)
| |
| 128/117 (desc.) || 11/10, 208/189 (asc.)
| |
| 54/49 (desc.) || 10/9 || 9/8 ||
| |
| || 32/27 || 6/5 || 98/81 (asc.)
| |
| 40/33 (desc.) || 39/32 (asc.)
| |
| XXX || 27/22 (asc.)
| |
| XXX || 99/80, 26/21 (asc.)
| |
| XXX || 5/4 || 81/64 ||
| |
| || 8192/6581 || XXX || 25088/19683 || 104/81 || XXX || 176/135 || 320/243 || 4/3 ||
| |
| || XXX || 27/20 || 351/258 || XXX || 243/176 || 891/640 || 45/32 || 729/512 ||
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Older system, variant== | | =Notation= |
| XXX
| | The notes without accidentals stand for the pythagorean intervals of the base tuning of the qanun. Raising a pitch by an apotome is notated with "#", lowering a pitch by the same amount is notated with "b". Sharps are higher than flats (unlike in [[Meantone|meantone]] systems): C# is one apotome (114 cents) above C, while Db is 9/8 (214 cents) minus one apotome = 90 cents. Both properties indicate that the framework is essentially pythagorean. The tuning system as a whole, however, is not. |
|
| |
|
| =Newer systems=
| | For the steps in between, additional symbols are used - altogether 7 symbols for raising pitches and 7 for lowering pitches. |
| ==System 2 J.J. Weiss, better suited for ottoman maqams==
| |
| XXX
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Symmetrical model J.J. Weiss== | | This gives 15 potential different pitches per base note, corresponding to the mandals. Seven base notes (C, D, E, F, G, A, B or Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Si), corresponding to the strings, lead to a notation system of 7*15=105 pitches, in accordance with the real playing capabilities of the qanun. See the following document, which also gives all the pitches in one octave (in ratios and cents) that can be played by system 1 and 2. |
| XXX
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss==
| | [[:File:Tableaux_JJW_VIII-2011.pdf|Tableaux JJW VIII-2011.pdf]] |
| XXX
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss, variant==
| | (used with permission J. J. Weiss/S. Pohlit) |
| XXX
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Equal division of the Zarlinian semitone, J.J. Weiss== | | =System 1= |
| XXX
| | © J.J.Weiss. Luthier: Ejder Gulec. |
|
| |
|
| ==Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 54/49, J.J. Weiss==
| | Subdivision of 25/24 into 65/64 (26 cents), 144/143 (12 cents) and 55/54 (32 cents). |
| XXX
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 14/13, J.J. Weiss==
| | 65/64 and 55/54 are each split into two roughly equal parts. |
| XXX
| |
|
| |
|
| ==9) Super-symmetrical system, ascening/descending with 11/10, J.J. Weiss==
| | This gives the following rational intervals between the mandals: |
| XXX
| |
|
| |
|
| ==System Jacques Dudon (2006)==
| | 81/80, 245/243, 3159/3136, 144/143, 121/120, 100/99, 81/80 |
| XXX</pre></div>
| |
| <h4>Original HTML content:</h4>
| |
| <div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;width:200%;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html"><html><head><title>tuning systems for qanun</title></head><body><span style="font-size: 150%;"><strong>Tuning systems for the qanun</strong></span><br />
| |
| Julien Jalaleddine Weiss<br />
| |
| Reference: Pohlit, Stefan. 2011. Julien Jalâl Ed-Dine Weiss – A New Qānūn System: Its Application in the Performance<br />
| |
| Practice of the Ensemble “Al-Kindi” and in Contemporary Western Music. PhD Thesis, MIAM/Istanbul Technical<br />
| |
| University.<br />
| |
| <br />
| |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:28:&lt;img id=&quot;wikitext@@toc@@normal&quot; class=&quot;WikiMedia WikiMediaToc&quot; title=&quot;Table of Contents&quot; src=&quot;/site/embedthumbnail/toc/normal?w=225&amp;h=100&quot;/&gt; --><div id="toc"><h1 class="nopad">Table of Contents</h1><!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:28 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:29: --><div style="margin-left: 1em;"><a href="#Explanation">Explanation</a></div>
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| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:29 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:30: --><div style="margin-left: 1em;"><a href="#Older systems">Older systems</a></div>
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| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:30 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:31: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Older systems-First System J.J.Weiss">First System J.J.Weiss</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:31 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:32: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Older systems-Older system, variant">Older system, variant</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:32 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:33: --><div style="margin-left: 1em;"><a href="#Newer systems">Newer systems</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:33 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:34: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Newer systems-System 2 J.J. Weiss, better suited for ottoman maqams">System 2 J.J. Weiss, better suited for ottoman maqams</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:34 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:35: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Newer systems-Symmetrical model J.J. Weiss">Symmetrical model J.J. Weiss</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:35 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:36: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Newer systems-Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss">Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:36 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:37: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Newer systems-Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss, variant">Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss, variant</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:37 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:38: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Newer systems-Equal division of the Zarlinian semitone, J.J. Weiss">Equal division of the Zarlinian semitone, J.J. Weiss</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:38 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:39: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Newer systems-Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 54/49, J.J. Weiss">Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 54/49, J.J. Weiss</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:39 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:40: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Newer systems-Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 14/13, J.J. Weiss">Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 14/13, J.J. Weiss</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:40 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:41: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Newer systems-9) Super-symmetrical system, ascening/descending with 11/10, J.J. Weiss">9) Super-symmetrical system, ascening/descending with 11/10, J.J. Weiss</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:41 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:42: --><div style="margin-left: 2em;"><a href="#Newer systems-System Jacques Dudon (2006)">System Jacques Dudon (2006)</a></div>
| |
| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:42 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextTocRule:43: --></div>
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| <!-- ws:end:WikiTextTocRule:43 --><!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:0:&lt;h1&gt; --><h1 id="toc0"><a name="Explanation"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:0 -->Explanation</h1>
| |
| The tuning tables on this page are specifically designed for the tuning system of the <a class="wiki_link" href="/qanun">qanun</a> (see the link for details on the system of tuning and playing a qanun with &quot;mandals/orabs&quot;).<br />
| |
| <br />
| |
| The whole table covers roughly the range of a fourth (the range where the ajnas - maqam tetrachords - reside). Each row corresponds to one string of the qanun. In the first column stands the basic (relative) tuning of a string while the following columns indicate possible intervals that can be reached via lowering the mandals/orabs.<br />
| |
| <br />
| |
| The first table contains the cent values and the second the just intervals, sometimes differing between ascending and descending ratios.<br />
| |
| <br />
| |
| Any given configuration of mandal/orab positions, resulting in a certain set of pitches that can be played at a given time<br />
| |
| (base for a maqam tetrachord) is represented by a choice of one cell in each row.<br />
| |
| <br />
| |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:2:&lt;h1&gt; --><h1 id="toc1"><a name="Older systems"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:2 -->Older systems</h1>
| |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:4:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc2"><a name="Older systems-First System J.J.Weiss"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:4 -->First System J.J.Weiss</h2>
| |
| Inequal subdivision of the <a class="wiki_link" href="/2187_2048">apotome (2187/2048, 113.7 cents)</a> into 7 parts (8 mandals/orabs), in the following manner:<br />
| |
| <ul><li>Subdivision into one <a class="wiki_link" href="/81_80">syntonic comma (81/80, 21.5 cents)</a>, one <a class="wiki_link" href="/25_24">Zarlinian semitone (25/24, 70.7 cents)</a> and another syntonic comma.</li><li>Further subdivision of 25/24 into 65/64 (26 cents), 144/143 (12 cents) and 55/54 (32 cents).</li><li>65/64 and 55/54 are each split into two.</li></ul><br />
| |
| This gives the following interval positions of the mandals: 22, 13, 13, 12, 16, 16, 22 cents.<br />
| |
| Luthier: Ejder Gulec<br />
| |
| <br />
| |
| Interval Table (cents):<br />
| |
|
| |
|
| | In cents (approximations): |
|
| |
|
| <table class="wiki_table">
| | 22, 13, 13, 12, 16, 16, 22 |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>0<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>22<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>35<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>48<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>60<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>76<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>92<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>114<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>90<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>112<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>125<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>138<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>150<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>166<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>182<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>204<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>294<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>316<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>330<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>342<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>354<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>370<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>386<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>408<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>384<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>406<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>420<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>432<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>444<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>460<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>476<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>498<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>498<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>520<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>533<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>546<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>558<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>574<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>590<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>612<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| </table>
| |
|
| |
|
| <br />
| | Rational intervals each string can be detuned (approximations in cents in parentheses): |
| Interval table of just intervals (ascending, descending):<br />
| |
|
| |
|
| | 81/80 (22), 49/48 (35), 1053/1024 (48), 729/704 (60), 2673/2560 (76), 135/128 (92), 2187/2048 (114) |
|
| |
|
| <table class="wiki_table">
| | Intervals ratios, ascending from C: |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>1/1<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>81/80<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>49/48<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>1053/1024<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>729/704<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>2673/2560<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>135/128<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>2187/2048<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>256/243<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>16/15<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>784/729, 128/119, 43/40 (asc.)<br />
| |
| 320/297 (desc.)<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>13/12 (asc.)<br />
| |
| 88/81 (desc.)<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>12/11 (asc.)<br />
| |
| 128/117 (desc.)<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>11/10, 208/189 (asc.)<br />
| |
| 54/49 (desc.)<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>10/9<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>9/8<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>32/27<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>6/5<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>98/81 (asc.)<br />
| |
| 40/33 (desc.)<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>39/32 (asc.)<br />
| |
| XXX<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>27/22 (asc.)<br />
| |
| XXX<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>99/80, 26/21 (asc.)<br />
| |
| XXX<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>5/4<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>81/64<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>8192/6581<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>XXX<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>25088/19683<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>104/81<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>XXX<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>176/135<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>320/243<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>4/3<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| <tr>
| |
| <td>XXX<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>27/20<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>351/258<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>XXX<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>243/176<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>891/640<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>45/32<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| <td>729/512<br />
| |
| </td>
| |
| </tr>
| |
| </table>
| |
|
| |
|
| <br />
| | <ul><li>On the D string (from Db to D): |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:6:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc3"><a name="Older systems-Older system, variant"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:6 -->Older system, variant</h2>
| | |
| XXX<br />
| | 256/243 (90), 16/15 (112), '''784/729 (126)''', '''13/12 (138)''', '''12/11 (150)''', '''11/10 (166)''', 10/9 (182), 9/8 (204)</li><li>On the E string (from Eb to E): |
| <br />
| | |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:8:&lt;h1&gt; --><h1 id="toc4"><a name="Newer systems"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:8 -->Newer systems</h1>
| | 32/27 (294), 6/5 (316), '''98/81 (330)''', '''39/32 (342)''', '''27/22 (354)''', '''99/80 (370)''', 5/4 (386), 81/64 (408)</li></ul> |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:10:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc5"><a name="Newer systems-System 2 J.J. Weiss, better suited for ottoman maqams"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:10 -->System 2 J.J. Weiss, better suited for ottoman maqams</h2>
| | |
| XXX<br />
| | Interval ratios, descending from F: |
| <br />
| | |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:12:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc6"><a name="Newer systems-Symmetrical model J.J. Weiss"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:12 -->Symmetrical model J.J. Weiss</h2>
| | <ul><li>On the E string (from Eb to E): |
| XXX<br />
| | |
| <br />
| | 9/8 (204), 10/9 (182), '''54/49 (169)''', '''128/117 (156)''', '''88/81 (144)''', '''320/297 (129)''', 16/15 (112), 256/243 (90)</li><li>On the D string (from Db to D): |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:14:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc7"><a name="Newer systems-Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:14 -->Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss</h2>
| | |
| XXX<br />
| | 81/64 (408), 5/4 (386), '''243/196 (372)''', '''16/13 (360)''', '''11/9 (348)''', '''40/33 (333)''', 6/5 (316), 32/27 (294)</li></ul> |
| <br />
| | |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:16:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc8"><a name="Newer systems-Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss, variant"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:16 -->Super-symmetrical model J.J. Weiss, variant</h2>
| | A complete list of all intervals available within one octave can be found in the above-mentioned [[:File:Tableaux_JJW_VIII-2011.pdf|document]] (on the first page). |
| XXX<br />
| | |
| <br />
| | =System 2, better suited for ottoman maqams= |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:18:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc9"><a name="Newer systems-Equal division of the Zarlinian semitone, J.J. Weiss"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:18 -->Equal division of the Zarlinian semitone, J.J. Weiss</h2>
| | © J.J. Weiss. Qanun no. 9, luthier: Kenan Ozten. |
| XXX<br />
| | |
| <br />
| | Mandal positions in ratios: |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:20:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc10"><a name="Newer systems-Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 54/49, J.J. Weiss"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:20 -->Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 54/49, J.J. Weiss</h2>
| | |
| XXX<br />
| | 81/80, 105/104, 572/567, 144/143, 1547/1536, 120/119, 81/80 |
| <br />
| | |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:22:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc11"><a name="Newer systems-Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 14/13, J.J. Weiss"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:22 -->Super-symmetrical system, ascending/descending with 14/13, J.J. Weiss</h2>
| | In cents (approximations): |
| XXX<br />
| | |
| <br />
| | <span style="color: #00000a; font-family: Tahoma;">22|16|15|12|13|14|22</span> |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:24:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc12"><a name="Newer systems-9) Super-symmetrical system, ascening/descending with 11/10, J.J. Weiss"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:24 -->9) Super-symmetrical system, ascening/descending with 11/10, J.J. Weiss</h2>
| | |
| XXX<br />
| | Rational intervals each string can be detuned (approximations in cents in parentheses): |
| <br />
| | |
| <!-- ws:start:WikiTextHeadingRule:26:&lt;h2&gt; --><h2 id="toc13"><a name="Newer systems-System Jacques Dudon (2006)"></a><!-- ws:end:WikiTextHeadingRule:26 -->System Jacques Dudon (2006)</h2>
| | 81/80 (22), 1701/1664 (38), 33/32 (54), 27/26 (66), 243/232 (78), 135/128 (92), 2187/2048 (114) |
| XXX</body></html></pre></div>
| | |
| | Intervals ratios, ascending from C: |
| | |
| | <ul><li>On the D string (from Db to D): |
| | |
| | 256/243 (90), 16/15 (112), '''14/13 (128), 88/81 (144), 128/117 or 35/32 (156), 119/108 (168)''', 10/9 (182), 9/8 (204)</li><li>On the E string (from Eb to E): |
| | |
| | 32/27 (294), 6/5 (316), '''63/52 (332), 11/9 (348), 16/13 or 315/256 (360), 119/96 (372)''', 5/4 (386), 81/64 (408)</li></ul> |
| | |
| | Interval ratios descending from F: |
| | |
| | <ul><li>On the E string (from Eb to E): |
| | |
| | 9/8 (204), 10/9 (182), '''208/189 (166), 12/11 (150), 13/12 (138), 128/119 (126)''', 16/15 (112), 256/243 (90)</li><li>On the D string (from Db to D): |
| | |
| | 81/64 (408), 5/4 (386), '''26/21 (370), 27/22 (354), 39/32 (342), 144/119 (330)''', 6/5 (316), 32/27 (294)</li></ul> |
| | |
| | A complete list of all intervals available within one octave can be found in the above-mentioned [[:File:Tableaux_JJW_VIII-2011.pdf|document]] (on the second page). |
| | |
| | =Other models= |
| | Julien Weiss has developed a number of other systems besides the two described above. A notable class of these are so-called super-symmetrical systems, which have the property that the intervals ascending from C and the intervals descending from F (which show slight differences in the previous two systems, marked in '''bold''' above) are the same. |
| | |
| | 3 examples are described below. For more and detailed descriptions see chapter 3.4 and appendix I in [http://stefanpohlit.com/dissertation.engl..htm Stefan Pohlit's dissertation] . |
| | |
| | ==Super-symmetric model with non-aliquot division of 65/64== |
| | © J.J. Weiss |
| | |
| | Similar to [[tuning_systems_for_qanun#System 1|system 1]], but with 65/64 (26.84 cents) divided into two non-equal parts (14 and 12 cents instead of 13 and 13). |
| | |
| | Mandal positions in ratios: |
| | |
| | 81/80 (22), 120/119 (14), 1547/1536 (12), <span style="color: #00000a; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">512/507 (17), </span>1547/1536 (12), 120/119 (14)<span style="color: #00000a; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">, 81/80 (22)</span> |
| | |
| | Table of pitches from C to F (approximations in cents): |
| | |
| | {| class="wikitable" |
| | |- |
| | ! | String |
| | ! | b |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | Base note |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | # |
| | |- |
| | ! | C |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 0 |
| | | | 22 |
| | | | 36 |
| | | | 48 |
| | | | 66 |
| | | | 78 |
| | | | 92 |
| | | | 114 |
| | |- |
| | ! | D |
| | | | 90 |
| | | | 112 |
| | | | 126 |
| | | | 138 |
| | | | 156 |
| | | | 168 |
| | | | 182 |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 204 |
| | | | 226 |
| | | | 240 |
| | | | 252 |
| | | | 270 |
| | | | 282 |
| | | | 296 |
| | | | 318 |
| | |- |
| | ! | E |
| | | | 294 |
| | | | 316 |
| | | | 330 |
| | | | 342 |
| | | | 360 |
| | | | 372 |
| | | | 386 |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 408 |
| | | | 430 |
| | | | 444 |
| | | | 456 |
| | | | 474 |
| | | | 486 |
| | | | 500 |
| | | | 522 |
| | |- |
| | ! | F |
| | | | 384 |
| | | | 406 |
| | | | 420 |
| | | | 433 |
| | | | 450 |
| | | | 462 |
| | | | 476 |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 498 |
| | | | 520 |
| | | | 534 |
| | | | 546 |
| | | | 464 |
| | | | 476 |
| | | | 590 |
| | | | 612 |
| | |} |
| | |
| | Interval ratios, ascending from C: |
| | |
| | <ul><li>On the D string (from Db to D): |
| | |
| | 245/243 (90), 16/15 (112), '''128/119 (126), 13/12 (138), 128/117 (156), 119/108 (168),''' 10/9 (182), 9/8 (204) |
| | |
| | On the E string (from Eb to E): |
| | |
| | 32/27 (294), 6/5 (316), '''144/119 (330), 39/32 (342), 16/13 (360), 119/96 (372),''' 5/4 (386), 81/64 (408)</li></ul> |
| | |
| | Interval ratios, descending from F: |
| | |
| | <ul><li>On the E string (from Eb to E): |
| | |
| | 9(8 /204), 10/9 (182), '''119/108 (168), 128/117 (156), 13/12 (138), 128/119 (126)''', 16/15 (112), 256/243 (90)</li><li>On the D string (from Db to D) |
| | |
| | X81/64 (408), 5/4 (386), '''119/96 (372), 16/13 (360), 39/32 (342), 144/119 (330)''', 6/5 (316), 32/27 (294)</li></ul> |
| | |
| | Ascending and descending intervals are indeed the same, which is what "super-symmetrical" means in this context. |
| | |
| | ==Equal division of the Zarlinian semitone== |
| | © J.J. Weiss |
| | |
| | This is the simplest variant for luthiers... |
| | |
| | Mandal positions (cents): <span style="color: #00000a; font-family: Tahoma;"> 22|14|14|14|14|14|22 </span> |
| | |
| | Mandal positions in ratios: |
| | |
| | <span style="color: #00000a; font-family: Tahoma;">81/80, 125/124, 124/123, 123/122, 122/121, 121/120, 81/80</span> |
| | |
| | Table of pitches from C to F (approximations in cents): |
| | |
| | {| class="wikitable" |
| | |- |
| | ! | String |
| | ! | b |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | Base note |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | # |
| | |- |
| | ! | C |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 0 |
| | | | 22 |
| | | | 36 |
| | | | 50 |
| | | | 64 |
| | | | 78 |
| | | | 92 |
| | | | 114 |
| | |- |
| | ! | D |
| | | | 90 |
| | | | 112 |
| | | | 126 |
| | | | 140 |
| | | | 154 |
| | | | 168 |
| | | | 182 |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 204 |
| | | | 226 |
| | | | 240 |
| | | | 254 |
| | | | 268 |
| | | | 282 |
| | | | 296 |
| | | | 318 |
| | |- |
| | ! | E |
| | | | 294 |
| | | | 316 |
| | | | 330 |
| | | | 344 |
| | | | 358 |
| | | | 372 |
| | | | 386 |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 408 |
| | | | 430 |
| | | | 444 |
| | | | 458 |
| | | | 472 |
| | | | 486 |
| | | | 500 |
| | | | 522 |
| | |- |
| | ! | F |
| | | | 384 |
| | | | 406 |
| | | | 420 |
| | | | 434 |
| | | | 448 |
| | | | 462 |
| | | | 476 |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 498 |
| | | | 520 |
| | | | 534 |
| | | | 548 |
| | | | 562 |
| | | | 576 |
| | | | 590 |
| | | | 612 |
| | |} |
| | |
| | Interval ratios, ascending from C: |
| | |
| | <ul><li>On the D string (from Db to D): |
| | |
| | 256/243 (90), 16/15 (112), '''100/93 (126), 400/369 (140), 200/183 (153.78), 400/363 (168).''' 10/9 (182), 9/8 (204)</li><li>On the E string (from Eb to E): |
| | |
| | 32/27 (294), 6/5 (316), '''75/62 (329.54), 50/41 (343.56), 75/61 (357.69), 150/121 (371.94),''' 5/4 (386), 81/64 (408)</li></ul> |
| | |
| | Interval ratios descending from F: |
| | |
| | <ul><li>On the E string (from Eb to E): |
| | |
| | 9/8, 10/9, '''248/225 (168.49), 82/75 (154.47), 244/225 (140.34), 242/225 (126.09'''), 16/15, 256/243or approximating ratios: XXX</li><li>On the D string (from Db to D): |
| | |
| | 81/64, 5/4, '''31/25 (372.40), 49/40 (351.33), 61/50 (344.25), 121/100 (330)''', 6/5, 32/27Or approximatiing ratios: XXX</li></ul> |
| | |
| | ==Super-symmetrical model with 14/13== |
| | © J.J. Weiss |
| | |
| | The idea behind this system is as follows: |
| | |
| | Dividing the apotome (114 cents) into 3 equal parts gives 38 cents, and adding this to the pythagorean limma (90 cents) gives 128 cents, which is an approximation for [[14/13|14/13]] (two-third tone, a favorite interval of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna Avicenna/Ibn Sina]). |
| | |
| | The division of the apotome derived from this combines the known basic division into apotome, Zarlinian semitone and apotome with an equal division into 3 parts, which yields the following mandal positions (cents): |
| | |
| | 22, 16, 13, 12, 13, 16, 22 |
| | |
| | (Observe that 22+16 = 38, as well as 13+12+13.) |
| | |
| | Mandal positions in ratios: |
| | |
| | 81/80, 1701/1664, 416/413, 3456/3481, 416/413, 1701/1664, 81/80 |
| | |
| | Since the pythagorean limma appears prominently in the basic framework anyway (as semitone from E to F and from B to C as well as one apotome minus a syntonic comma several times on each string), 14/13 also appears at various positions. |
| | |
| | Table of pitches from C to F (approximations in cents): |
| | |
| | {| class="wikitable" |
| | |- |
| | ! | String |
| | ! | b |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | Base note |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | |
| | ! | # |
| | |- |
| | ! | C |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 0 |
| | | | 22 |
| | | | 38 |
| | | | 51 |
| | | | 63 |
| | | | 76 |
| | | | 92 |
| | | | 114 |
| | |- |
| | ! | D |
| | | | 90 |
| | | | 112 |
| | | | 128 |
| | | | 141 |
| | | | 153 |
| | | | 166 |
| | | | 182 |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 204 |
| | | | 226 |
| | | | 242 |
| | | | 255 |
| | | | 267 |
| | | | 280 |
| | | | 296 |
| | | | 318 |
| | |- |
| | ! | E |
| | | | 294 |
| | | | 316 |
| | | | 329 |
| | | | 341 |
| | | | 354 |
| | | | 370 |
| | | | 386 |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 408 |
| | | | 430 |
| | | | 446 |
| | | | 459 |
| | | | 471 |
| | | | 484 |
| | | | 500 |
| | | | 522 |
| | |- |
| | ! | F |
| | | | 384 |
| | | | 406 |
| | | | 422 |
| | | | 435 |
| | | | 447 |
| | | | 460 |
| | | | 476 |
| | | style="text-align:center;" | 498 |
| | | | 520 |
| | | | 536 |
| | | | 549 |
| | | | 561 |
| | | | 574 |
| | | | 590 |
| | | | 612 |
| | |} |
| | |
| | Interval ratios, ascending from C: |
| | |
| | <ul><li>On the D string (from Db to D): |
| | |
| | 256/243 (90), 16/15/112), 14/13 (128), 64/59 (141), 59/54 /153), 209/189 (166), 10(9 (182), 9/8 (204)</li><li>On the E string (from Eb to E): |
| | |
| | 32/27 (294), 6/5 (316), 63/52 (332), 72/59 (345), 59/48 (357), 26/21 (370), 5/4 (386), 81/64 (408)</li></ul> |
| | |
| | {{Navbox notation}} |
| | |
| | {{Todo| cleanup }} |
| | [[Category:Arabic music]] |
| | [[Category:Persian music]] |
| | [[Category:Turkish music]] |
| | [[Category:Qanun]] |