Talk:Families of scales: Difference between revisions

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In the contemporary sense we tend to distinguish the tuning system and its scales. In addition, I'm not sure about presenting such level of details in the page as it's quite hard to maintain. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 06:52, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

:I didn't think about how hard the page would be to maintain. I have reverted the page to how it was on 14 April before any of my edits, so things are back to how they were now.

: I didn't think about how hard the page would be to maintain, sorry. I have reverted the page to how it was on 14 April before any of my edits, so things are back to how they were now.

:~~In terms of the difference between~~ a scale and a ~~temperament: what~~ is ~~the difference? Is it that a scale has~~ a ~~set number~~ of ~~notes~~, ~~whereas~~ a temperament is a ~~means~~ of ~~generating~~ a scale~~? So, "Meantone"~~ is a ~~temperament, but "Meantone~~[19]~~" is a scale~~?

: So just to make sure I understand correctly: a scale is one specific collection of intervals (e.g. “Meantone[19] with 9 generators up and 9 generators down”), a tuning system is a kind of ‘musical world’ within which scales can exist (e.g. “Meantone”), a temperament is a tuning system which alters the tuning of intervals in order to compromise between competing aims (e.g. “Meantone”), and a scale family is a collection of scales produced using the same method (e.g. “Meantone[19] scales”). Is that correct? [[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 08:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

:Or is it ~~just that temperaments have lots~~ of ~~notes and~~ scales ~~only have~~ a ~~few?~~

:: That was a pretty concise summary for temperaments and scales, tho how many generators up and down for a mos scale is called the ''mode'' or ''rotation'', and all the modes or rotations are often considered as part of a single scale. I never see "family of scales" discussed in the community, so it should be open to interpretations. I think it's safe to say a family of scales is collection of a certain type of scales. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 13:23, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

:~~I think I prefer the former definition to the latter, because there are lots of scales in [[Category~~:~~Just intonation scales]] and [[Category~~:~~Tempered scales]]~~ that ~~have 40, 50, 70 or even 80+ notes~~. ~~So if anything with lots of notes is a temperament, we have to recategorise all of those.~~

:::Alright, that makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to clarify it :) --[[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 00:44, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

~~:And also, what about just intonation scales with lots of notes? They're too big~~ to ~~be scales, but they can't be temperaments, because they're just, not tempered. So they don't belong anywhere?~~

~~:So I think the first definition is correct, right? If it has a fixed set of notes, it's a scale, if it's a method for generating scales,~~ it~~'s a temperament. Is that right?~~

:~~Or is there a different definition besides either of those two which we use instead?~~

~~:Sorry if this is a dumb question, I just want to make sure I understand the basics like the definition of "scale" and "temperament", to make sure that I edit the wiki accurately.~~ [[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 08:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 In the contemporary sense we tend to distinguish the tuning system and its scales. In addition, I'm not sure about presenting such level of details in the page as it's quite hard to maintain. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 06:52, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
-:I didn't think about how hard the page would be to maintain. I have reverted the page to how it was on 14 April before any of my edits, so things are back to how they were now.
+: I didn't think about how hard the page would be to maintain, sorry. I have reverted the page to how it was on 14 April before any of my edits, so things are back to how they were now.
-:In terms of the difference between a scale and a temperament: what is the difference? Is it that a scale has a set number of notes, whereas a temperament is a means of generating a scale? So, "Meantone" is a temperament, but "Meantone[19]" is a scale?
+: So just to make sure I understand correctly: a scale is one specific collection of intervals (e.g. “Meantone[19] with 9 generators up and 9 generators down”), a tuning system is a kind of ‘musical world’ within which scales can exist (e.g. “Meantone”), a temperament is a tuning system which alters the tuning of intervals in order to compromise between competing aims (e.g. “Meantone”), and a scale family is a collection of scales produced using the same method (e.g. “Meantone[19] scales”). Is that correct? [[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 08:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
-:Or is it just that temperaments have lots of notes and scales only have a few?
+:: That was a pretty concise summary for temperaments and scales, tho how many generators up and down for a mos scale is called the ''mode'' or ''rotation'', and all the modes or rotations are often considered as part of a single scale. I never see "family of scales" discussed in the community, so it should be open to interpretations. I think it's safe to say a family of scales is collection of a certain type of scales. [[User:FloraC|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC|talk]]) 13:23, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
-:I think I prefer the former definition to the latter, because there are lots of scales in [[Category:Just intonation scales]] and [[Category:Tempered scales]] that have 40, 50, 70 or even 80+ notes. So if anything with lots of notes is a temperament, we have to recategorise all of those.
+:::Alright, that makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to clarify it :) --[[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 00:44, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
-:And also, what about just intonation scales with lots of notes? They're too big to be scales, but they can't be temperaments, because they're just, not tempered. So they don't belong anywhere?
-:So I think the first definition is correct, right? If it has a fixed set of notes, it's a scale, if it's a method for generating scales, it's a temperament. Is that right?
-:Or is there a different definition besides either of those two which we use instead?
-:Sorry if this is a dumb question, I just want to make sure I understand the basics like the definition of "scale" and "temperament", to make sure that I edit the wiki accurately. [[User:BudjarnLambeth|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth|talk]]) 08:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)