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All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.
Please do not add any new discussion to this archive page.
All new discussion should go on Talk:Toctave.

Should this page be here?

As far as I see (and as the discussions on the tuning list IMHO show), this stuff with the "true octave" is, at best, highly controversial. I, personally, have to admit I highly doubt it has any relevance.

- hstraub August 06, 2011, 12:19:29 PM UTC-0700

It makes little sense, I agree, but discussion continues anyway.

- genewardsmith August 06, 2011, 04:12:23 PM UTC-0700

There is nothing wrong with discussion. But I do not see the xenwiki as a forum for discussion - rather a repository for the results of these discussionsm, if there are any. (And so far, IMHO, there are none concerning the "true octave".) The discussion is in good hands on the Yahoo list.

- hstraub August 07, 2011, 05:02:04 AM UTC-0700

I think the best way to combine wikis with mailing lists is to show results in wiki pages (even if in progress and/or controversal) and discuss on the lists. I think that Toctave should be considered as relevant, because it *was discussed* on the list. There are people further interested in the theory of "musical cells", I for instance. :)

Mostly, wikis collect community work. And the dominance of one personal taste could paralyze the activity.

- xenwolf August 08, 2011, 02:50:31 AM UTC-0700

I am not of the opinion that being discussed on the tuning list already qualifies for an entry in the wiki. There were several and long discussions there about things that are, pardon me, plain bullshit.

If people are interested in "musical cells" then we can start a page about musical cells. But I do no see that on this page, for example.

I do not tink it is a matter of taste. It is a matter of results. I checked the still ongoing discussion on the tuning list today, and I still didn't see results.

- hstraub August 08, 2011, 05:33:34 AM UTC-0700

Be honest: I did not wish wiki pages for bullshit. But, you're right, there are many things flying around on the lists that are not summarized here in the wiki. But they should.

Now for the Toctave page: it could be renamed, but I think we shouldn't do so: short pages are unbeatable for definitions or terms. Of course, they should lead to the concepts they belong to (via hyperlinks).

Try to google for toctave - now you find this page - some days before there were nearly nothing. We should better add the musical cells page soon and make this page a handy definition.

- xenwolf August 08, 2011, 07:41:35 AM UTC-0700

I do not see why the term toctave should be found in Google. If you look at the thread in the tuning list now you will see it has turned into a flamewar. This does not lower the suspicion that it may be bullshit.

But I am not the ruler of this wiki, so I will not delete the page if there is no consense.

- hstraub August 08, 2011, 08:47:19 AM UTC-0700

Of course it's bullshit. But is that the point? It's bullshit with a precise definition. Anyway, things which in theory are bullshit can work in practice, like LucyTuning, so there's no clear demarcation.

- genewardsmith August 08, 2011, 10:36:33 AM UTC-0700

Here are my personal preferences for these kind of things:

I want to discourage the practice of making a page only to "objectively" report something that someone else said about some matter of tuning. We should be making pages that matter to us, perhaps even pages which contain those descriptions of why they matter.

Also, people should be free to post ideas to the wiki without discussing them on one particular list beforehand. Proposals with no musical results yet should be safe here, as long as they are made "in good faith". And, more than collecting results, this wiki could *encourage* results.

This wiki should be more than a links repository. When links to other web resources are used, they should be commented on, put into a new context, connected in new ways. For example, I'd like to see a page analyzing different uses of "true" within tuning, connecting toctaves with "True Temperament" fret systems...

- xenjacob August 08, 2011, 12:04:29 PM UTC-0700

I can live the rest of my life in happiness without discussing whether a page 'belongs' in this wiki. I have no desire to reach a 'consensus' on what the 'purpose' of this wiki is. It has no purpose as far as I'm concerned.

For me, the wiki is most useful when people document things that matter to them -- not as a record of topics discussed on a mailing list. In this I think I am like Hans and Jacob. But I place no weight in the fact that there are apparently 3 of us and only one of Wolf. Make this wiki what you want it to be, Wolf, and I will do the same.

- clumma August 18, 2011, 12:02:24 PM UTC-0700