Xenharmonic Wiki talk:License - Revision history

Fredg999: Fredg999 moved page Talk:Xenharmonic Wiki License to Xenharmonic Wiki talk:License: Project page

2023-03-07T01:25:02Z

Fredg999 moved page Talk:Xenharmonic Wiki License to Xenharmonic Wiki talk:License: Project page

← Older revision	Revision as of 01:25, 7 March 2023
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Aura at 20:47, 24 March 2021

2021-03-24T20:47:09Z

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	::::: Well, the wiki ''could'' take the position that specific items such as your songs may be listed with a different license. It doesn't strictly have to be all the same. But assuming the smoother everything-the-same, any contributor retains complete copyright to their own work. You can register your songs and use them in any capacity, as you are the copyright holder. You are just licensing the content here under CC-BY-SA which means that at least the ''aspects'' of the songs that are here are then usable by people under the CC-BY-SA license. You can still separately license or use your own songs in any way you choose with anyone, you are not bound by the license yourself. But if others contribute non-trivially to your songs here, you would need to follow CC-BY-SA in your use of their contributions. The same principles apply right now with the current CC license anyway. --[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 19:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)		::::: Well, the wiki ''could'' take the position that specific items such as your songs may be listed with a different license. It doesn't strictly have to be all the same. But assuming the smoother everything-the-same, any contributor retains complete copyright to their own work. You can register your songs and use them in any capacity, as you are the copyright holder. You are just licensing the content here under CC-BY-SA which means that at least the ''aspects'' of the songs that are here are then usable by people under the CC-BY-SA license. You can still separately license or use your own songs in any way you choose with anyone, you are not bound by the license yourself. But if others contribute non-trivially to your songs here, you would need to follow CC-BY-SA in your use of their contributions. The same principles apply right now with the current CC license anyway. --[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 19:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

			:::::: Nice. Then that means that I'm completely on board with the smoother everything-the-same CC-BY-SA treatment. --[[User:Aura\|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura\|talk]]) 20:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Wolftune: /* Response */ about the rights for people who posted material here

2021-03-24T19:47:38Z

Response: about the rights for people who posted material here

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	:::: For me, there remains one question. If CC-BY-SA takes effect what does that mean for the songs I've shared on this Wiki? I'm asking because I plan to register my stuff with the Copyright office once I get the money. --[[User:Aura\|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura\|talk]]) 14:21, 24 March 2021 (UTC)		:::: For me, there remains one question. If CC-BY-SA takes effect what does that mean for the songs I've shared on this Wiki? I'm asking because I plan to register my stuff with the Copyright office once I get the money. --[[User:Aura\|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura\|talk]]) 14:21, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

			::::: Well, the wiki ''could'' take the position that specific items such as your songs may be listed with a different license. It doesn't strictly have to be all the same. But assuming the smoother everything-the-same, any contributor retains complete copyright to their own work. You can register your songs and use them in any capacity, as you are the copyright holder. You are just licensing the content here under CC-BY-SA which means that at least the ''aspects'' of the songs that are here are then usable by people under the CC-BY-SA license. You can still separately license or use your own songs in any way you choose with anyone, you are not bound by the license yourself. But if others contribute non-trivially to your songs here, you would need to follow CC-BY-SA in your use of their contributions. The same principles apply right now with the current CC license anyway. --[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 19:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Aura at 14:21, 24 March 2021

2021-03-24T14:21:51Z

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	::: If CC-BY-SA takes care of all that, I'll be fine with it. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 06:36, 24 March 2021 (UTC)		::: If CC-BY-SA takes care of all that, I'll be fine with it. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 06:36, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

			:::: For me, there remains one question. If CC-BY-SA takes effect what does that mean for the songs I've shared on this Wiki? I'm asking because I plan to register my stuff with the Copyright office once I get the money. --[[User:Aura\|Aura]] ([[User talk:Aura\|talk]]) 14:21, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Xenwolf: /* Response */ re

2021-03-24T06:36:56Z

Response: re

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	:: In practice, to stop anyone from selling "bootleg" copies of anything requires taking legal action anyway. The most dishonest actors might ignore licenses altogether anyway. I don't imagine anyone will sell the material in a way we'd find problematic. I personally ''support'' the idea of people perhaps making posters and selling them (we plan to do such things for the Kite Guitar), it's okay to pay for the costs of preparing, printing, and getting people physical stuff. And if someone made a paid-for ebook that included wiki material, CC-BY-SA would let them do that, but the whole ebook would still have to be CC-BY-SA which would mean anyone could freely share it and could also take any updated or new material and contribute it back to the wiki. Any small use like just referencing a tiny bit from the wiki would be fair use anyway, so no license can block that. --[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 01:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)		:: In practice, to stop anyone from selling "bootleg" copies of anything requires taking legal action anyway. The most dishonest actors might ignore licenses altogether anyway. I don't imagine anyone will sell the material in a way we'd find problematic. I personally ''support'' the idea of people perhaps making posters and selling them (we plan to do such things for the Kite Guitar), it's okay to pay for the costs of preparing, printing, and getting people physical stuff. And if someone made a paid-for ebook that included wiki material, CC-BY-SA would let them do that, but the whole ebook would still have to be CC-BY-SA which would mean anyone could freely share it and could also take any updated or new material and contribute it back to the wiki. Any small use like just referencing a tiny bit from the wiki would be fair use anyway, so no license can block that. --[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 01:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

			::: If CC-BY-SA takes care of all that, I'll be fine with it. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 06:36, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Wolftune: /* Response */

2021-03-24T01:16:23Z

Response

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	: I have nothing against commercial use of the information except selling the same things we offer for free. Is there any commonly used trade-off or clause for this? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 10:42, 23 March 2021 (UTC)		: I have nothing against commercial use of the information except selling the same things we offer for free. Is there any commonly used trade-off or clause for this? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 10:42, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

	:: The SA "share-alike" clause combined with BY "attribution" does the job well enough, though it's not absolutely strict. People could (any one of us or anyone else) do something like print out a book of everything from the wiki and sell the printed copy, but they would have to indicate the CC BY-SA license and include credit to the Xenharmonic Wiki, and we could and should) say that credit should be listed as "Xenharmonic Wiki https://xen.wiki". So, anyone who pays for the copy would see and know about the original source.		:: The SA "share-alike" clause combined with BY "attribution" does the job well enough, though it's not absolutely strict. People could (any one of us or anyone else) do something like print out a book of everything from the wiki and sell the printed copy, but they would have to indicate the CC BY-SA license and include credit to the Xenharmonic Wiki, and we could and should say that credit should be listed as "Xenharmonic Wiki https://xen.wiki". So, anyone who pays for the copy would see and know about the original source.

	:: In practice, to stop anyone from selling "bootleg" copies of anything requires taking legal action anyway. The most dishonest actors might ignore licenses altogether anyway. I don't imagine anyone will sell the material in a way we'd find problematic. I personally ''support'' the idea of people perhaps making posters and selling them (we plan to do such things for the Kite Guitar), it's okay to pay for the costs of preparing, printing, and getting people physical stuff. And if someone made a paid-for ebook that included wiki material, CC-BY-SA would let them do that, but the whole ebook would still have to be CC-BY-SA which would mean anyone could freely share it and could also take any updated or new material and contribute it back to the wiki. Any small use like just referencing a tiny bit from the wiki would be fair use anyway, so no license can block that. --[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 01:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)		:: In practice, to stop anyone from selling "bootleg" copies of anything requires taking legal action anyway. The most dishonest actors might ignore licenses altogether anyway. I don't imagine anyone will sell the material in a way we'd find problematic. I personally ''support'' the idea of people perhaps making posters and selling them (we plan to do such things for the Kite Guitar), it's okay to pay for the costs of preparing, printing, and getting people physical stuff. And if someone made a paid-for ebook that included wiki material, CC-BY-SA would let them do that, but the whole ebook would still have to be CC-BY-SA which would mean anyone could freely share it and could also take any updated or new material and contribute it back to the wiki. Any small use like just referencing a tiny bit from the wiki would be fair use anyway, so no license can block that. --[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 01:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Wolftune: /* Response */ answers about the scope of CC-BY-SA vs NC and what it would or wouldn't allow

2021-03-24T01:15:40Z

Response: answers about the scope of CC-BY-SA vs NC and what it would or wouldn't allow

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	: I have nothing against commercial use of the information except selling the same things we offer for free. Is there any commonly used trade-off or clause for this? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 10:42, 23 March 2021 (UTC)		: I have nothing against commercial use of the information except selling the same things we offer for free. Is there any commonly used trade-off or clause for this? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 10:42, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

			:: The SA "share-alike" clause combined with BY "attribution" does the job well enough, though it's not absolutely strict. People could (any one of us or anyone else) do something like print out a book of everything from the wiki and sell the printed copy, but they would have to indicate the CC BY-SA license and include credit to the Xenharmonic Wiki, and we could and should) say that credit should be listed as "Xenharmonic Wiki https://xen.wiki". So, anyone who pays for the copy would see and know about the original source.

			:: In practice, to stop anyone from selling "bootleg" copies of anything requires taking legal action anyway. The most dishonest actors might ignore licenses altogether anyway. I don't imagine anyone will sell the material in a way we'd find problematic. I personally ''support'' the idea of people perhaps making posters and selling them (we plan to do such things for the Kite Guitar), it's okay to pay for the costs of preparing, printing, and getting people physical stuff. And if someone made a paid-for ebook that included wiki material, CC-BY-SA would let them do that, but the whole ebook would still have to be CC-BY-SA which would mean anyone could freely share it and could also take any updated or new material and contribute it back to the wiki. Any small use like just referencing a tiny bit from the wiki would be fair use anyway, so no license can block that. --[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 01:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Xenwolf: /* Response */ question

2021-03-23T10:42:05Z

Response: question

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	== Response ==		== Response ==
	I don't care if we drop the "NC" and I doubt anyone else does. I don't know the process for changing all of this formally but I am alright with this. This should be posted to the "Xenwiki Work Group" on Facebook. [[User:Mike Battaglia\|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia\|talk]]) 16:08, 22 March 2021 (UTC)		I don't care if we drop the "NC" and I doubt anyone else does. I don't know the process for changing all of this formally but I am alright with this. This should be posted to the "Xenwiki Work Group" on Facebook. [[User:Mike Battaglia\|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia\|talk]]) 16:08, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

			: I have nothing against commercial use of the information except selling the same things we offer for free. Is there any commonly used trade-off or clause for this? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 10:42, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Mike Battaglia: Response to NC

2021-03-22T16:08:47Z

Response to NC

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	--[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 05:12, 22 March 2021 (UTC)		--[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 05:12, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

			== Response ==
			I don't care if we drop the "NC" and I doubt anyone else does. I don't know the process for changing all of this formally but I am alright with this. This should be posted to the "Xenwiki Work Group" on Facebook. [[User:Mike Battaglia\|Mike Battaglia]] ([[User talk:Mike Battaglia\|talk]]) 16:08, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Wolftune: /* Possible changes to allow CC-BY-SA */

2021-03-22T06:00:06Z

Possible changes to allow CC-BY-SA

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	Maybe a practical way to transition is possible. Consider a case where everyone contacted accepts a change to CC-BY-SA. Then, any substantial material from those who could not be reached could be specifically marked with an indication that the specific page is NC licensed still. I hope this will not be needed. Overall, it would be a huge improvement to be compatible with the rest of the wiki world and not segregate this material.		Maybe a practical way to transition is possible. Consider a case where everyone contacted accepts a change to CC-BY-SA. Then, any substantial material from those who could not be reached could be specifically marked with an indication that the specific page is NC licensed still. I hope this will not be needed. Overall, it would be a huge improvement to be compatible with the rest of the wiki world and not segregate this material.

			For perspective, I added a note to my own user page https://en.xen.wiki/w/User:Wolftune about my own use of CC-BY-SA

	--[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 05:12, 22 March 2021 (UTC)		--[[User:Wolftune\|Wolftune]] ([[User talk:Wolftune\|talk]]) 05:12, 22 March 2021 (UTC)