User:Lhearne/Extra-Diatonic Intervals - Revision history

Lhearne: Lhearne moved page User:Gareth.hearne/Extra-Diatonic Intervals to User:Lhearne/Extra-Diatonic Intervals: moving to my new user page

2022-02-26T17:01:52Z

Lhearne moved page User:Gareth.hearne/Extra-Diatonic Intervals to User:Lhearne/Extra-Diatonic Intervals: moving to my new user page

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Gareth.hearne: Replaced content with "''''This is now here Extended-diatonic interval names and here SHEFKHED interval names"

2018-10-20T08:51:44Z

Replaced content with "<nowiki/>''<nowiki/>''This is now here Extended-diatonic interval names and here SHEFKHED interval names"

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Gareth.hearne at 17:20, 16 October 2018

2018-10-16T17:20:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:20, 16 October 2018
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	Today a small ~~under~~ of competing interval naming schemes exist for the description of microtonal music. More common than any particular defined standard are certain tendencies for microtonal interval naming, or names for specific intervals. While risking the creation of simply another competing standard, an effort is made to develop a scheme that is able to take the best aspects of the existing standards and apply them in a formal interval naming system built on common undefined practice. Such a system is developed, where in addition to the standard diatonic interval name qualifiers - 'M', 'm', 'P', 'A' and 'd', only the three most commonly used microtonal qualifies, 'N', 'S' and 's' are used, along with interval-class degrees. Using this system all intervals in three fifths of all [[Equal division of the octave\|edo]]<nowiki/>s up to 50 can be named such that 'S' and 's' correspond to a displacement of an interval up or down a single interval of the edo, respectively. Many commonly used [[MOS scale\|MOS scales]] may also be described using this scheme such that these scales' interval names are consistent expression in any tuning that supports them. The resultant scheme can also be easily mapped to any of the current naming standards, and may even facilitate translation between. The resulting scheme should improve pedagogy and communication in microtonal music.		Today a small number of competing interval naming schemes exist for the description of microtonal music. More common than any particular defined standard are certain tendencies for microtonal interval naming, or names for specific intervals. While risking the creation of simply another competing standard, an effort is made to develop a scheme that is able to take the best aspects of the existing standards and apply them in a formal interval naming system built on common undefined practice. Such a system is developed, where in addition to the standard diatonic interval name qualifiers - 'M', 'm', 'P', 'A' and 'd', only the three most commonly used microtonal qualifies, 'N', 'S' and 's' are used, along with interval-class degrees. Using this system all intervals in three fifths of all [[Equal division of the octave\|edo]]<nowiki/>s up to 50 can be named such that 'S' and 's' correspond to a displacement of an interval up or down a single interval of the edo, respectively. Many commonly used [[MOS scale\|MOS scales]] may also be described using this scheme such that these scales' interval names are consistent expression in any tuning that supports them. The resultant scheme can also be easily mapped to any of the current naming standards, and may even facilitate translation between. The resulting scheme should improve pedagogy and communication in microtonal music.


	== Background ==		== Background ==
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	We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''		We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''

	In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described: (<span style="color:#FF0000">'''<big>the image is too inappropriate to show, see pg 28 for rules regarding posting images to the Internet~~</span>~~'''</~~big~~>)		In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described: (<span style="color:#FF0000">'''<big>the image is too inappropriate to show, see pg 28 for rules regarding posting images to the Internet'''</span>)

	=== Helmholtz and Ellis ===		=== Helmholtz and Ellis ===

PiotrGrochowski at 07:07, 16 October 2018

2018-10-16T07:07:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:07, 16 October 2018
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	We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''		We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''

	In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described: (the image is too inappropriate to show, see pg 28)		In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described: (<span style="color:#FF0000">'''<big>the image is too inappropriate to show, see pg 28 for rules regarding posting images to the Internet</span>'''</big>)

	=== Helmholtz and Ellis ===		=== Helmholtz and Ellis ===

Gareth.hearne: /* Additions and examples: */

2018-10-16T06:37:35Z

Additions and examples:

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:37, 16 October 2018
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	== Additions and examples: ==		== Additions and examples: ==
	''Neutrals'' and ''intermediates'' are also included, where neutrals occur between opposing sizes of a single generic interval the intermediates between each generic interval and the next.		''Neutrals'' and ''intermediates'' are also included, where neutrals occur between opposing sizes of a single generic interval the intermediates between each generic interval and the next.

	~~Interval names for equal tunings are ranked in five tiers.~~

	Interval names for equal tunings are ranked in eight tiers.		Interval names for equal tunings are ranked in eight tiers.

Gareth.hearne: /* Ups and Downs */

2018-10-16T03:41:38Z

Ups and Downs

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:41, 16 October 2018
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	The index values correspond most directly to degrees of 31-tET, whose interval names by this method are given in the following table:		The index values correspond most directly to degrees of 31-tET, whose interval names by this method are given in the following table:
	{\| class="wikitable"		{\| class="wikitable"
	\|+Table 4. Fokker/Keenan Extended-diatonic interval names in 31-tET		\|+Table 4. Fokker/Keenan Extended-diatonic interval-names in 31-tET
	!31-tET degree		!31-tET degree
	!Ratios		!Ratios
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	=== [[Sagittal notation\|Sagittal]] - [http://forum.sagittal.org/viewforum.php?f=9 sagispeak] ===		=== [[Sagittal notation\|Sagittal]] - [http://forum.sagittal.org/viewforum.php?f=9 sagispeak] ===
	One system which in it's naming of meantone and non-meantone edos is able to conserve interval arithmetic, sagispeak, was developed by [[Dave Keenan]] and others as an interval naming system that maps 1-1 with the Sagittal microtonal music notation system. Sagittal notation was developed as a generalised diatonic-based notation system applicable equally to [[just intonation]], [[Equal Temperaments\|equal tunings]] and rank-''n'' [[temperaments]]. Dozens of different accidentals can be used on a regular diatonic [[Staff notation\|staff]] to notate up to extremely fine divisions, however in most cases only a handful are needed. In sagispeak, each accidental is presented by a prefix, made up of a single letter, in most cases, followed by either 'ai' if the accidental raises a note, or 'ao' if it lowers a note. As in HEWM notation, Pythagorean intonation is assumed as a basis. Then the prefixes depart from Pythaogrean intonation, altering by commas and introducing other primes. In place of the prefixes 'sub' and 'super', generally signifying an alteration of 36/35 from 5-limit intervals or 64/63 for 3-limit, Sagittal features an accidental of [[64/63]], which may be used to take a Pythagorean major interval to a supermajor, minor to subminor, or perfect to super or sub. The prefix 'tao' indicates a decrease of 64/63 and and the prefix 'tai' an increase. Whereas in previous interval naming schemes 'major' and 'minor' were synonymous with the 5-limit tunings, in sagispeak they map instead to Pythagorean. A prefix is needed then to take a Pythagorean intoned interval to a 5-limit tuning. Where 5/4 is 81/80 below the the Pythagorean third, the prefixes 'pai' and 'pao' (where 'p' is for 'pental', as in, involving prime 5), which raise or lower a note by [[81/80]] respectively. Similarly, 'vai' and 'vao', which raise or lower a note by [[33/32]] respectively, leading to ratios of 11.		One system which in it's naming of meantone and non-meantone edos is able to conserve interval arithmetic, sagispeak, was developed by [[Dave Keenan]] and others as an interval naming system that maps 1-1 with the Sagittal microtonal music notation system. Sagittal notation was developed as a generalised diatonic-based notation system applicable equally to [[just intonation]], [[Equal Temperaments\|equal tunings]] and rank-''n'' [[temperaments]]. Dozens of different accidentals can be used on a regular diatonic [[Staff notation\|staff]] to notate up to extremely fine divisions, however in most cases only a handful are needed. In sagispeak, each accidental is presented by a prefix, made up of a single letter, in most cases, followed by either 'ai' if the accidental raises a note, or 'ao' if it lowers a note. As in HEWM notation, Pythagorean intonation is assumed as a basis. Then the prefixes depart from Pythaogrean intonation, altering by commas and introducing other primes. In place of the prefixes 'sub' and 'super', generally signifying an alteration of 36/35 from 5-limit intervals or 64/63 for 3-limit, Sagittal features an accidental of [[64/63]], which may be used to take a Pythagorean major interval to a supermajor, minor to subminor, or perfect to super or sub. The prefix 'tao' indicates a decrease of 64/63 and and the prefix 'tai' an increase. Whereas in previous interval naming schemes 'major' and 'minor' were synonymous with the 5-limit tunings, in sagispeak they map instead to Pythagorean. A prefix is needed then to take a Pythagorean intoned interval to a 5-limit tuning. Where 5/4 is 81/80 below the the Pythagorean third, the prefixes 'pai' and 'pao' (where 'p' is for 'pental', as in, involving prime 5), which raise or lower a note by [[81/80]] respectively. Similarly, 'vai' and 'vao', which raise or lower a note by [[33/32]] respectively, leading to ratios of 11.



	Because it is built off of the diatonic scale, sagispeak conserves diatonic interval arithmetic, i.e. familiar relations in the diatonic scale, i.e. M2 + m3 = P4. As in Fokker/Keenan Extended-diatonic Interval-names, diatonic interval arithmetic is also extended, where, for example, tai-major 2 + tao-minor 3 = P4 (8/7 + 7/6 = 4/3), where opposite alterations cancel each other out, and diatonic interval arithmetic is conserved, a very useful property for a microtonal interval naming system to possess. Another helpful property of sagispeak is its generalised applicability to edos, just intonation and other tunings, where the same intervals maintain their spelling across different tunings. Despite these benefits however, many see Sagittal and Sagispeak as overly complex (even though the entire extended system need hardly ever be applied), and requiring too many new terms to be learnt.		Because it is built off of the diatonic scale, sagispeak conserves diatonic interval arithmetic, i.e. familiar relations in the diatonic scale, i.e. M2 + m3 = P4. As in Fokker/Keenan Extended-diatonic Interval-names, diatonic interval arithmetic is also extended, where, for example, tai-major 2 + tao-minor 3 = P4 (8/7 + 7/6 = 4/3), where opposite alterations cancel each other out, and diatonic interval arithmetic is conserved, a very useful property for a microtonal interval naming system to possess. Another helpful property of sagispeak is its generalised applicability to edos, just intonation and other tunings, where the same intervals maintain their spelling across different tunings. Despite these benefits however, many see Sagittal and Sagispeak as overly complex (even though the entire extended system need hardly ever be applied), and requiring too many new terms to be learnt.
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	[[Igliashon Jones]] is a supporter of this system, but for the relabeling of 'down' as 'sub' and 'up' as 'super' and 'mid' as 'neutral', so that more common names are used, wherein 'super' infers a raise of 1 step of the edo, and 'sub' a lowering of one step. In this 'Extra-diatonic' system 'super' and 'sub' may be doubly applied, as in Ups and Downs, but they may not be applied before 'neutral' where in Ups and Downs they may be applied before 'mid'. The author's own extra-diatonic system is developed as a departure with caveat that 'S' and 's' prefixes are defined not as alterations by a single step of the edo, but by comma alterations as in Sagittal, in order that interval of MOS scales may be represented consistently across different tunings. Throughout the rest of the article the development is detailed, and the system defined.		[[Igliashon Jones]] is a supporter of this system, but for the relabeling of 'down' as 'sub' and 'up' as 'super' and 'mid' as 'neutral', so that more common names are used, wherein 'super' infers a raise of 1 step of the edo, and 'sub' a lowering of one step. In this 'Extra-diatonic' system 'super' and 'sub' may be doubly applied, as in Ups and Downs, but they may not be applied before 'neutral' where in Ups and Downs they may be applied before 'mid'. The author's own extra-diatonic system is developed as a departure with caveat that 'S' and 's' prefixes are defined not as alterations by a single step of the edo, but by comma alterations as in Sagittal, in order that interval of MOS scales may be represented consistently across different tunings. Throughout the rest of the article the development is detailed, and the system defined.

			31edo in Ups and Downs:

			1 ^1 vm2 m2 ~2 M2 ^M2 vm3 m3 ~3 M3 ^M3 v4 4 ^4 A4 d5 v5 5 ^5 vm6 m6 ~6 M6 ^M6 vm7 m7 ~7 M7 ^M7 v8 8

			In Jones' relabeling 31edo appears as in Fokker/Keenan Extended-diatonic Interval-names.

	== Premise: ==		== Premise: ==

Gareth.hearne: Done the extension of the lit review. This page will be 'frozen' here for now, and probably deleted later, while the lit review will be put into a new page 'On the naming of musical interval', after which my new system will be introduced.

2018-10-16T03:37:16Z

Done the extension of the lit review. This page will be 'frozen' here for now, and probably deleted later, while the lit review will be put into a new page 'On the naming of musical interval', after which my new system will be introduced.

Show changes

Gareth.hearne at 16:57, 15 October 2018

2018-10-15T16:57:53Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:57, 15 October 2018
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	The interval names shown in brackets could be said to be 'secondary', the others, 'primary'.		The interval names shown in brackets could be said to be 'secondary', the others, 'primary'.

	After releasing his system Keenan was informed that is was identical to the extended-diatonic interval-naming scheme of Adriaan Fokker but for the acknowledgment of more 11-limit ratios.This system depends on the tempering out of 81/80, where the diatonic major third, from four stacked fifths, approximates the just major third, 5/4. It also depends on the existence of neutral intervals, i.e., that the perfect fifth or equivalently, the chromatic semitone, subtends an even number of degrees of the ET. To simply to our familiar naming scheme for 12-tET, we observe that it applies to 24edo equally as directly as in 31-tET, where the prefixes correspond to degrees of the edo. Exactly the same is also true for 38-tET, twice 19-tET, a meantone which very closely approximates 1/3-comma meantone. Meantone temperament wherein the fifth is divided into two equally sized neutral thirds is referred to as neutral temperament. Whereas meantone temperament is generated by the fifth, iin neutral temperament the generator is half this interval, the neutral third. Where it was seen above that there are two neutral thirds, 9:11 and 22:27 that differ by 243/242, neutral temperament is at its most simple the temperament defined by this equivalence: the tempering out of 243/242, as meantone is defined by the tempering out of 81/80. The temperament that tempers out both 81/80 and 243/242 is called Mohajira, upon which Keenan's scheme can be said to be based.		After releasing his system Keenan was informed that is was identical to the extended-diatonic interval-naming scheme of Adriaan Fokker but for the acknowledgment of more 11-limit ratios.This system depends on the tempering out of 81/80, where the diatonic major third, from four stacked fifths, approximates the just major third, 5/4. It also depends on the existence of neutral intervals, i.e., that the perfect fifth or equivalently, the chromatic semitone, subtends an even number of degrees of the ET. To simply to our familiar naming scheme for 12-tET, we observe that it applies to 24edo equally as directly as in 31-tET, where the prefixes correspond to degrees of the edo. Exactly the same is also true for 38-tET, twice 19-tET, a meantone which very closely approximates 1/3-comma meantone. Meantone temperament wherein the fifth is divided into two equally sized neutral thirds is referred to as neutral temperament. Whereas meantone temperament is generated by the fifth, iin neutral temperament the generator is half this interval, the neutral third. Where it was seen above that there are two neutral thirds, 9:11 and 22:27 that differ by 243/242, neutral temperament is at its most simple the temperament defined by this equivalence: the tempering out of 243/242, as meantone is defined by the tempering out of 81/80. The temperament that tempers out both 81/80 and 243/242 is called Mohajira, upon which Keenan's scheme can be said to be based. As well as 24-tET, 31-tET and 38-tET, Mohajira is supported by 7-tET, 17-tET.

	The primary interval names resulting in this system's application to ~~24-tET and 38-tET~~ is now show~~, along with 31-tET again~~ for easy comparison, where 'M', 'm', 'P', 'N', 'A', 'd', 'S' and 's' are shorthand for major, minor, perfect, neutral, augmented, diminished, super and sub, respectively:		The primary interval names resulting in this system's application to these ETs is now show for easy comparison, where 'M', 'm', 'P', 'N', 'A', 'd', 'S' and 's' are shorthand for major, minor, perfect, neutral, augmented, diminished, super and sub, respectively:

			7edo: P1 N2 N3 P4 P5 N6 N7 P8

			17edo: P1 m2 N2 M2 m3 N3 M3 P4 S4 s5 P5 m6 N6 M6 m7 N7 M7 P8

	24edo: P1 S1/sm2 m2 N2 M2 SM2/sm3 m3 N3 M3 SM3/s4 P4 S4 A4/d5 s5 P5 S5/sm6 m6 N6 M6 SM6/sm7 m7 N7 M7 SM7/s8 P8		24edo: P1 S1/sm2 m2 N2 M2 SM2/sm3 m3 N3 M3 SM3/s4 P4 S4 A4/d5 s5 P5 S5/sm6 m6 N6 M6 SM6/sm7 m7 N7 M7 SM7/s8 P8
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	38edo: P1 S1 A1 sm2 m2 N2 M2 SM2 A2/d3 sm3 m3 N3 M3 SM3 d4 s4 P4 S4 A4 SA4/sd5 d5 s5 P5 S5 A5 sm6 m6 N6 M6 SM6 A6/d7 sm7 m7 N7 M7 SM7 d8 s8 P8		38edo: P1 S1 A1 sm2 m2 N2 M2 SM2 A2/d3 sm3 m3 N3 M3 SM3 d4 s4 P4 S4 A4 SA4/sd5 d5 s5 P5 S5 A5 sm6 m6 N6 M6 SM6 A6/d7 sm7 m7 N7 M7 SM7 d8 s8 P8

	to Meantone tunings that are not Mohajira tunings, the regular diatonic interval names can be applied, but with the addition of double augmented and double diminished:		to Meantone tunings that are not Mohajira tunings, the regular diatonic interval names can be applied, but with the addition of double augmented and double diminished from Fokker/Keenan's system.

	19edo: P1 A1 m2 M2 A2/d3 m3 M3 d4 P4 A4 d5 P5 A5 m6 M6 A6/d7 m7 d8 P8		19edo: P1 A1 m2 M2 A2/d3 m3 M3 d4 P4 A4 d5 P5 A5 m6 M6 A6/d7 m7 d8 P8 (every second step of 38edo)

	26edo: P1 A2 d2 m2 M2 A2 d3 m3 M3 A3 d4 P4 A4 AA4/AA5 d5 P5 A5 d6 m6 M6 A6 d7 m7 M7 A7 d8 P8		26edo: P1 A2 d2 m2 M2 A2 d3 m3 M3 A3 d4 P4 A4 AA4/AA5 d5 P5 A5 d6 m6 M6 A6 d7 m7 M7 A7 d8 P8
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	In non-Meantone tunings, the two definitions of major third - 4:5 and 64:81, the just (or classic) and Pythagorean major thirds no-longer correspond. If intervals are to receive unique names then to one or both of these major thirds must be added a prefix. Keenan has been involved with the development of both types of systems. Only when the major is defined by it's mapping as fourth fifths, i.e. 81/64, can conserve interval arithmetic.		In non-Meantone tunings, the two definitions of major third - 4:5 and 64:81, the just (or classic) and Pythagorean major thirds no-longer correspond. If intervals are to receive unique names then to one or both of these major thirds must be added a prefix. Keenan has been involved with the development of both types of systems. Only when the major is defined by it's mapping as fourth fifths, i.e. 81/64, can conserve interval arithmetic.

			Keenan later describes how the scheme can be extended to also cover 72-tET and 41-tET. In 31-tET the fifth may divided into six minor seconds. This temperament is called Miracle, and is also supported by 41-tET and 72-tET. The first six generators of Miracle give the following intervals: P1 m2 SM2 m3 S4 P5, as can be seen in the table above. 31-tET may be covered by 15 generators downwards and 15 generators upwards from 1:1. In 72-tET, either side of the intervals that that result from these 31 notes, called Miracle[31] 15\|15, lie unnamed intervals that may be found first at either 31 or 41 generators further upwards or downwards and in 41-tET, either at 10 or 31 generators. If, one degree of 41 or 72-tET above an interval or Miracle[31] 15\|15 lies an unnamed interval that can be first found by an additional 31 generators upwards, it is given the same name as the interval directly below it, with the addition of the prefix 'n', for 'narrow'. Similarly, 'W' for 'wide' prefixes an unnamed interval one degree, 31 generators below. Since Miracle MOS scales (scales in which each interval class comes in at most two sizes, like the pentatonic, diatonic and chromatic scales) come in 10, 11 and 21 notes, we may label the intervals also of 10-tET, 11-tET and 21-tET with this system, though they give poor approximations of the just intervals associated with the interval names.

			10edo: P1 m2 SM2 N3 s4 A4/d5 S5 N6 sm7 M7 P8

			11edo: P1 m2 SM2 N3 s4 A4 d5 S5 N6 sm7 M7 P8

			21edo: P1 S1 m2 N2 SM2 sm3 N3 M3 s4 P4 A4 d5 P5 S5 m6 N6 SM6 sm7 N7 M7 s8 P8

			41edo: P1 S1 nsm2 sm2 m2 N2 nM2 M2 SM2 sm3 nm3 m3 N3 M3 nSM3 SM3 s4 P4 nS4 S4 A4 d5 s5 Ws5 P5 S5 sm6 Wsm6 m6 N6 M6 Wm6 SM6 sm7 m7 Wm7 N7 M7 SM7 WSM7 s8 P8

			Though interval arithmetic still is conserved in 41edo, the major third is no longer the interval found at four perfect fifths. For this system, and for 72edo that interval is named a wide major third. Though many edos can be covered, many still cannot, including the Superpythagorean edos, where the fifth is sharper than just, and four fifths give an approximation to 7:9, the super major third, tempering out the septimal comma, 63:64.

	=== [[Sagittal notation\|Sagittal]] - [http://forum.sagittal.org/viewforum.php?f=9 sagispeak] ===		=== [[Sagittal notation\|Sagittal]] - [http://forum.sagittal.org/viewforum.php?f=9 sagispeak] ===

Xenwolf: /* English interval names in the Baroque */ removed disturbing content

2018-10-15T07:10:28Z

English interval names in the Baroque: removed disturbing content

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:10, 15 October 2018
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	We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''		We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''

	In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described: (~~<span style="color:#FF0000">'''<big>~~the image is too inappropriate to show, see pg 28 ~~for rules regarding posting images to the Internet</span>'''</big>~~)		In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described: (the image is too inappropriate to show, see pg 28)

	=== Helmholtz and Ellis ===		=== Helmholtz and Ellis ===

PiotrGrochowski at 06:39, 15 October 2018

2018-10-15T06:39:57Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:39, 15 October 2018
Line 54:		Line 54:
	We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''		We may be surprised to see 4:3 here labelled as a minor Fourth, and 3/2 as a major Fifth, but it is obvious that this naming is more consistent than today's. Smith adds that <blockquote>'Any one of the ratios in the third column of the foregoing Table, except 80 to 81, or any one of them compounded once of oftener with the ratio 2 to 1 or 1 to 2, is called a Perfect ratio when reduced to it's least terms. And when the times of the single vibrations of any two sounds have a perfect ratio, the consonance and it's interval too after called Perfect; and is called Imperfect or Tempered when that perfect ratio and interval is a little increased or decreased.'</blockquote><blockquote>'Any small increment of decrement of a perfect interval is called respectively the Sharp or Flat Temperament of the imperfect consonance, and is measured most conveniently by the proportion it bears to the comma'</blockquote>Therefore in this system 3/2 is the ''Perfect major Fifth'' and 5/4 the ''Perfect major Third''. 81/64 might be labelled a ''comma sharp major Third'', 32/27 a ''comma flat minor Third'', and the 1/4-comma Meantone fifth a ''1/4-comma flat major Fifth''. The interval naming scheme Smith describes may be immediately applied to 5-limit microtonal systems. There is an inconsistency, however, where it seems that 9/8 should be called a ''Perfect major Second,'' but that, while 9/5 be named a ''comma sharp minor Seventh'', it's inverse, 10/9, is a ''Perfect minor Tone.''

	In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described: (<span style="color:#FF0000">the image is too inappropriate to show, see pg 28 for rules regarding posting images to the Internet</span>)		In ''An Elementary Treatise on Musical Intervals and Temperament,'' published in 1876'','' R. H. M Bosanquet refers to 5/4 as the ''perfect third'', and 81/64 as the P''ythagorean third''. Bosanquet also labels other intervals of the Pythagorean diatonic scale similarly, i.e. 256/243, the limma, is labelled the ''Pythagorean semitone'', and 27/16 the ''Pythagorean sixth''. 81/80 is labelled the ''ordinary comma'', or simple the ''comma,'' and the Pythagorean comma is defined as the difference between twelve fifths and seven octaves. The apotome of 2187/2048 is referred to as Apatomè Pythagoria. The following relationships are then described: (<span style="color:#FF0000">'''<big>the image is too inappropriate to show, see pg 28 for rules regarding posting images to the Internet</span>'''</big>)

	=== Helmholtz and Ellis ===		=== Helmholtz and Ellis ===