User:Eufalesio/How to build edos in DAWs - Revision history

Eufalesio: /* About edo usage and JI approximations (my experience) */

2026-05-17T18:32:55Z

About edo usage and JI approximations (my experience)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:32, 17 May 2026
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	If you still want to go even finer than that... then try 612edo and 2460; S-tier 12n edos, so you get transposing-friendly hyperfine microtonality. But, since their step sizes are smaller than the melodic JND, you can't tell notes edosteps apart. You are likely wasting your time here, however.		If you still want to go even finer than that... then try 612edo and 2460; S-tier 12n edos, so you get transposing-friendly hyperfine microtonality. But, since their step sizes are smaller than the melodic JND, you can't tell notes edosteps apart. You are likely wasting your time here, however.

	If you STILL want to go finer... you~~'re~~ wasting your time. Just use [[JI]] scales and forget about edos and temperaments altogether.		If you STILL want to go finer... you are surely wasting your time. Just use [[JI]] scales and forget about edos and temperaments altogether. Remember when I said you could ''theoretically'' compose in these insane edos? That's because PB resolution is going to be your main bottleneck. The other one is your paranoia.

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Eufalesio: Great chanegs

2026-05-07T00:39:28Z

Great chanegs

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Eufalesio at 12:59, 13 December 2025

2025-12-13T12:59:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:59, 13 December 2025
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	Good edos: [[217edo\|217]], [[270edo\|270]], [[311edo\|311]], [[612edo\|612]], [[1600edo\|1600]], [[2460edo\|2460]] - Reasoning: Very high [[consistency limit]] / ''Astonishing'' 2.3.5.7.11.13.19 approximations.		Good edos: [[217edo\|217]], [[270edo\|270]], [[311edo\|311]], [[612edo\|612]], [[1600edo\|1600]], [[2460edo\|2460]] - Reasoning: Very high [[consistency limit]] / ''Astonishing'' 2.3.5.7.11.13.19 approximations.

	When you ~~begin to~~ use edos beyond 159, ~~absolute error starts~~ to ~~become negligible~~, and consistency is what makes a fine-grained edo great. ~~270 is special because it approximates~~ the 2.~~3.5.7.11.13.19 astonishingly well for its size. 1600edo has absolute error comparable~~ to ~~270~~, ~~and almost 43-odd-limit consistency~~.		==== About edo usage and JI approximations (my experience) ====
			When you use edos beyond 159 or 217edo, the increasingly bigger gamut of pitches makes it harder to use finer and finer edos compared to the increase in precision, and consistency compared to '''distinct''' consistency becomes a better metric for what makes a fine-grained edo great; put another way: how many intervals are '''''wheat''''', and how many are '''''chaff'''''. I'll call this the '''wheat:chaff metric'''. After all, one reason to use edos instead of JI is having a quantized palette of pitches, instead of an unfathomable continuum.

	612edo and 2460 ~~are~~ S-tier 12n edos, so you get transposing-friendly hyperfine microtonality. But, since their step sizes are smaller than the melodic ~~[[Just-noticeable difference]]~~, you ~~literally~~ can't tell notes ~~that are~~ edosteps apart.		It is desirable for the wheat:chaff to be maximized, thus edos with high consistency limits and smaller gamut alongside lower '''distinct''' consistency limits are the best. Of course, relative error weighted by smaller primes is still a great metric. It follows from this, that the best edos are: [[12edo\|12]], [[19edo\|19]], [[22edo\|22]], [[31edo\|31]], [[41edo\|41]], [[46edo\|46]], [[53edo\|53]], [[58edo\|58]], [[72edo\|72]], [[80edo\|80]], [[84edo\|84]], [[94edo\|94]], [[118edo\|118]], [[130edo\|130]], [[159edo\|159]], [[217edo\|217]], [[311edo\|311]]. Of those, I composed things in 12, 19, 22, 31, 41, 53, 72, 94, 159, 217.

			You won't need edos finer than 94edo or 159edo if you're using acoustic sounds, or sounds with some sort of natural error or detune. 217 and 311edo are logical stopping points, because they temper a lot of useful intervals into each other (reducing chaff), and because 217edo has an edostep above the melodic [[Just-noticeable difference]] (311's is barely above, or probably isn't...). 270 is special because it approximates the 2.3.5.7.11.13.19 astonishingly well for its size. 1600edo has absolute error comparable to 270, and almost 43-odd-limit consistency.

			If you still want to go even finer than that... then try 612edo and 2460; S-tier 12n edos, so you get transposing-friendly hyperfine microtonality. But, since their step sizes are smaller than the melodic JND, you can't tell notes edosteps apart.

			If you STILL want to go finer... you're wasting your time. Just use [[JI]] scales and forget about edos and temperaments altogether.

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Eufalesio at 14:36, 12 December 2025

2025-12-12T14:36:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:36, 12 December 2025
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	This guide explains the workflow I use to build any ~~edo. I could theoretically build any edo well up until the forty-thousands, but for practicality's sake (plus stylistic choice and personal taste) I really only use~~ [[~~12edo~~\|12]], ~~[[72edo\|72]], [[94edo\|94]], [[217edo\|217]], [[270edo\|270]], [[311edo\|311]]~~.		This guide explains the workflow I use to build and compose with any [[EDO\|edo]]. It does '''not''' discuss stylistic choices in composing with these edos. It does however have my recommendations based on my own experience, like in the "good edos" section.

	'''~~This guide is~~ for Logic Pro''', for Apple, the DAW I use to compose my music. I have no guarantee that my workflow will be compatible with other DAWs, but it can help from a theoretical standpoint if you choose to build edos in other DAWs using the methods I expose in this article.		'''The content here applies for Logic Pro''', for Apple, the DAW I use to compose my music.

			'''I have no guarantee that my workflow will be compatible with other DAWs''', but it can help from a theoretical standpoint if you choose to build edos in other DAWs using the methods I expose in this article.

	== Edos 1,2,3,4,6 ==		== Edos 1,2,3,4,6 ==
	~~Just use~~ 12edo.		These are subsets of 12edo. 'Nuff said.

	== Edos 5,7,8,9,10,11 ==		== Edos 5,7,8,9,10,11 ==
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	* Advantages: Trivially easy to build and use, accessible xenharmony (not microtonality).		* Advantages: Trivially easy to build and use, accessible xenharmony (not microtonality).
	* Disdvantages: Non-transposing friendly, very coarse edos~~, bad intonation~~.		* Disdvantages: Non-transposing friendly, very coarse edos.

	== Edos 12n ==		== Edos 12n ==
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	* Disadvantages: Only possible with 12n edos. Edos above 72 or 84 may become unwieldy or RAM-intensive, due to the abundance of many instrument instances.		* Disadvantages: Only possible with 12n edos. Edos above 72 or 84 may become unwieldy or RAM-intensive, due to the abundance of many instrument instances.

	Good edos: [[24edo\|24]], [[72edo\|72]], [[84edo\|84]]		Good edos: [[24edo\|24]], [[72edo\|72]], [[84edo\|84]] - Reasoning: Efficient approximations of JI / 24edo is an entry-level microtonal edo, great [[2.3.11 subgroup\|2.3.11]] tuning.

	== Edos >12 ==		== Edos >12 ==
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	* Disadvantages: Much harder to compose using this method because the keyboard has the notes way out of place. Programming notes in, is a more viable workflow, albeit less ''in the feels''. Limited octave range, but can be expanded with MIDI channels.		* Disadvantages: Much harder to compose using this method because the keyboard has the notes way out of place. Programming notes in, is a more viable workflow, albeit less ''in the feels''. Limited octave range, but can be expanded with MIDI channels.

	Good edos: [[17edo\|17]], [[19edo\|19]], [[22edo\|22]], [[31edo\|31]], [[34edo\|34]] - Reasoning: Good fifths and/or Good 5-limit approximations		Good edos: [[17edo\|17]], [[19edo\|19]], [[22edo\|22]], [[31edo\|31]], [[34edo\|34]] - Reasoning: Good fifths and/or Good 5-limit approximations. Of all these ones, I'd say 31 is the best one around here, as it provides a very intuitive framework for 13-limit xenharmony. 19 is also another entry-level edo, the next best edo at 5-limit other than 12edo. Both of these edos are meantone, which aligns quite well with Western music theory.

	=== Preset-scale deviations - MIDI channels only ===		=== Preset-scale deviations - MIDI channels only ===
	Tune your 12 notes in your octave to a fixed scale, I recommend 12edo or [[5L 7s]] 6\|5 (or [[7L 5s]] 6\|5 if you're using meantone), as it is very easy to extend to any edo, specially as they get large. Then, make separate instances of each track that differ by edosteps, with a whitelisted midi channel. Of course, there are only 16 MIDI channels, so this method cannot be extended indefinitely. This method is robust, as it can allow you to reach any edo up to sharp-16 (~~A1≥16~~)~~. This includes every edo up to 199 except for 148, 160, 162, 165, 167, 169, 172, 174, 176, 177, 179, 181, 183, 184, 186, 188, 189, 190, 191, 193, 195, 196, 197, 198~~.		Tune your 12 notes in your octave to a fixed scale supported by your edo. I recommend 12edo or [[5L 7s]] 6\|5 (or [[7L 5s]] 6\|5 if you're using meantone), as it is very easy to extend to any edo, specially as they get large. Then, make separate instances of each track that differ by edosteps, with a whitelisted midi channel. Of course, there are only 16 MIDI channels, so this method cannot be extended indefinitely. This method is robust, as it can allow you to reach any edo up to sharp-16 (augmented unison ≤ 16 edosteps).

	* Advantages: ~~Able to build~~ very fine-grained edos, ~~able~~ to compose ~~using 12 notes, then able to retune them~~.		This includes every edo up to 199 '''except''' for 148, 160, 162, 165, 167, 169, 172, 174, 176, 177, 179, 181, 183, 184, 186, 188, 189, 190, 191, 193, 195, 196, 197, 198. It also allows you to build 12n edos up to 192edo, by using 12edo as the fixed scale.

			* Advantages: Allows use of very fine-grained edos, 10.<u>3</u> octave range, practical to compose in.
	* Disadvantages: Harder to set up, less transposing-friendly because of wolf intervals.		* Disadvantages: Harder to set up, less transposing-friendly because of wolf intervals.

	Good edos: [[41edo\|41]], [[53edo\|53]], [[94edo\|94]], [[130edo\|130]], [[159edo\|159]] - Reasoning: Astounding fifths and/or Great 13-limit approximations		Good edos: [[41edo\|41]], [[53edo\|53]], [[94edo\|94]], [[130edo\|130]], [[159edo\|159]] - Reasoning: Astounding fifths and/or Great 13-limit approximations.

			94edo is my favorite here, because it combines two top-tier edos into one great jack-of-all trades 23-odd-limit tuning. 159edo, [[Dawson Berry\|Aura]]'s favorite, is also a top-tier edo, making an ''astonishingly good'' 2.3.11 tuning, and/or an overall a very good jack-of-all trades tuning, both of them with a graspable gamut.

	=== Preset-scale deviations - MIDI and articulations ===		=== Preset-scale deviations - MIDI and articulations ===
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	* Disadvantages: (Probably) Non-transposing friendly. Requires MPE or else instrument must be monophonic. Hard to setup, very technical, prone to error.		* Disadvantages: (Probably) Non-transposing friendly. Requires MPE or else instrument must be monophonic. Hard to setup, very technical, prone to error.

	Good edos: [[217edo\|217]], [[270edo\|270]], [[311edo\|311]], [[612edo\|612]], [[1600edo\|1600]], [[2460edo\|2460]] - Reasoning: Very high [[consistency limit]] / ''Astonishing'' 2.3.5.7.11.13.19 approximations ~~(270edo)~~. When you begin to use edos beyond 159, ~~the~~ absolute error starts to ~~be come~~ negligible ~~with good edos~~, and consistency is what makes a fine-grained edo great. 270 is special because it approximates the 2.3.5.7.11.13.19 astonishingly well for its size. 1600edo has absolute error comparable to 270, and almost 43-odd-limit consistency. 612edo and 2460 are S tier 12n edos, so you get transposing-friendly hyperfine microtonality.		Good edos: [[217edo\|217]], [[270edo\|270]], [[311edo\|311]], [[612edo\|612]], [[1600edo\|1600]], [[2460edo\|2460]] - Reasoning: Very high [[consistency limit]] / ''Astonishing'' 2.3.5.7.11.13.19 approximations.

			When you begin to use edos beyond 159, absolute error starts to become negligible, and consistency is what makes a fine-grained edo great. 270 is special because it approximates the 2.3.5.7.11.13.19 astonishingly well for its size. 1600edo has absolute error comparable to 270, and almost 43-odd-limit consistency.

			612edo and 2460 are S-tier 12n edos, so you get transposing-friendly hyperfine microtonality. But, since their step sizes are smaller than the melodic [[Just-noticeable difference]], you literally can't tell notes that are edosteps apart.

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	* Channel at which step=0 (n): from 3 to 9. The midpoint of your edostep deviations. Channel 1 is not used here. If you choose 5, then your edosteps will be 2:-3, 3:-2, 4:-1, 5:0, 6:+1, 7:+2, 8:+3, so the amount of deviations you have at your disposal is 2n+1. Note that no matter the input channel (the one in your piano roll), it will be sent as Channel 1, or allocated to another channel for MPE.		* Channel at which step=0 (n): from 3 to 9. The midpoint of your edostep deviations. Channel 1 is not used here. If you choose 5, then your edosteps will be 2:-3, 3:-2, 4:-1, 5:0, 6:+1, 7:+2, 8:+3, so the amount of deviations you have at your disposal is 2n+1. Note that no matter the input channel (the one in your piano roll), it will be sent as Channel 1, or allocated to another channel for MPE.
	* PB range (± cents): The range of your plugin's PB. Recommend values like 200 or 1200. For MPE, it is often 4800, but if you're using very fine grained edos, you might want to bring this down to get more resolution.		* PB range (± cents): The range of your plugin's PB. Recommend values like 200 or 1200. For MPE, it is often 4800, but if you're using very fine grained edos, you might want to bring this down to get more resolution.
	* Articulation CC#: The CC at which articulations will be sent, you can change it if it causes conflicts with your plugin, but then you need to change all the articulation set's CC. Not recommended.		* Articulation CC#: The CC at which articulations will be sent, you can change it if it causes conflicts with your plugin, but then you need to change all the articulation set's CC. Default 27, Not recommended to change it.
	* MidiChDeviationSplit: Multiplies the edosteps deviations of the MIDI channels by this number. at n=9, and this=16, then 10:+16, 8:-16, 11:+32, 7:-32... etc. If you are using HUGE edos (or edos with sharpness higher than 15), you will need to set this to a value bigger than 1. If you set this to 1, you can use it for smaller edos without duplicating instances '''(Preset-scale deviations - MIDI channels only, 12n)'''		* MidiChDeviationSplit: Multiplies the edosteps deviations of the MIDI channels by this number. at n=9, and this=16, then 10:+16, 8:-16, 11:+32, 7:-32... etc. If you are using HUGE edos (or edos with sharpness higher than 15), you will need to set this to a value bigger than 1. If you set this to 1, you can use it for smaller edos without duplicating instances '''(Preset-scale deviations - MIDI channels only, 12n)'''
	* Offset scope: I don't know what this is. I set it to Global-Last, and I assume it has something to do with the MPE. But it works.		* Offset scope: I don't know what this is. I set it to Global-Last, and I assume it has something to do with the MPE. But it works.

Eufalesio: Birth

2025-12-12T12:45:40Z

Birth

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