User:Astaryuu/15edo Notes/Scales and modes - Revision history

Astaryuu: /* Zarlino/Nicetone */

2026-08-27T19:50:44Z

Zarlino/Nicetone

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:50, 27 August 2026
Line 176:		Line 176:
	{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}		{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}
	===Zarlino/Nicetone===		===Zarlino/Nicetone===
	This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, placing them in such a way as to get as close as ~~possoble~~ to a normal diatonic.		This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, placing them in such a way as to get as close as possible to a normal diatonic.

	This scale is actually chiral, with a "right-handed" variation and a "left-handed" variation. Right-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''3 2''' 1} in some order, while left-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''2 3''' 1} in them. This has dramatic implications. Left-handed zarlino major has a perfect fifth on second position, while right-handed zarlino major has a wolf fifth there instead. Conversely, a ninth chord on the root sounds more major in right-handed zarlino major than in left-handed zarlino major (since it uses the second scale degree).		This scale is actually chiral, with a "right-handed" variation and a "left-handed" variation. Right-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''3 2''' 1} in some order, while left-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''2 3''' 1} in them. This has dramatic implications. Left-handed zarlino major has a perfect fifth on second position, while right-handed zarlino major has a wolf fifth there instead. Conversely, a ninth chord on the root sounds more major in right-handed zarlino major than in left-handed zarlino major (since it uses the second scale degree).

Astaryuu: /* Zarlino/Nicetone */

2026-08-27T19:50:35Z

Zarlino/Nicetone

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:50, 27 August 2026
Line 176:		Line 176:
	{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}		{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}
	===Zarlino/Nicetone===		===Zarlino/Nicetone===
	This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, ~~with~~ a ~~perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and~~ a ~~wolf fifth above the second, sixth, and seventh~~.		This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, placing them in such a way as to get as close as possoble to a normal diatonic.

	This scale is actually chiral, with a "right-handed" variation and a "left-handed" variation. Right-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''3 2''' 1} in some order, while left-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''2 3''' 1} in them. This has dramatic implications. Left-handed zarlino major has a perfect fifth on second position, while right-handed zarlino major has a wolf fifth there instead. Conversely, a ninth chord on the root sounds more major in right-handed zarlino major than in left-handed zarlino major (since it uses the second scale degree).		This scale is actually chiral, with a "right-handed" variation and a "left-handed" variation. Right-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''3 2''' 1} in some order, while left-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''2 3''' 1} in them. This has dramatic implications. Left-handed zarlino major has a perfect fifth on second position, while right-handed zarlino major has a wolf fifth there instead. Conversely, a ninth chord on the root sounds more major in right-handed zarlino major than in left-handed zarlino major (since it uses the second scale degree).

Astaryuu: /* Zarlino/Nicetone */

2026-08-27T19:48:18Z

Zarlino/Nicetone

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:48, 27 August 2026
Line 176:		Line 176:
	{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}		{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}
	===Zarlino/Nicetone===		===Zarlino/Nicetone===
	This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, with a perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and a wolf fifth above the ~~fourth~~, sixth, and seventh.		This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, with a perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and a wolf fifth above the second, sixth, and seventh.

	This scale is actually chiral, with a "right-handed" variation and a "left-handed" variation. Right-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''3 2''' 1} in some order, while left-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''2 3''' 1} in them. This has dramatic implications. Left-handed zarlino major has a perfect fifth on second position, while right-handed zarlino major has a wolf fifth there instead. Conversely, a ninth chord on the root sounds more major in right-handed zarlino major than in left-handed zarlino major (since it uses the second scale degree).		This scale is actually chiral, with a "right-handed" variation and a "left-handed" variation. Right-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''3 2''' 1} in some order, while left-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''2 3''' 1} in them. This has dramatic implications. Left-handed zarlino major has a perfect fifth on second position, while right-handed zarlino major has a wolf fifth there instead. Conversely, a ninth chord on the root sounds more major in right-handed zarlino major than in left-handed zarlino major (since it uses the second scale degree).

Astaryuu: /* Zarlino/Nicetone */

2026-02-08T08:51:00Z

Zarlino/Nicetone

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:51, 8 February 2026
Line 174:		Line 174:
	There are some other scales though, that don't seem to use any consistent stacking pattern or anything like that. Such nice patterns are called MOSes, and not all scales are MOSes.		There are some other scales though, that don't seem to use any consistent stacking pattern or anything like that. Such nice patterns are called MOSes, and not all scales are MOSes.

			{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}
	===Zarlino/Nicetone===		===Zarlino/Nicetone===
	This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, with a perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and a wolf fifth above the fourth, sixth, and seventh.		This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, with a perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and a wolf fifth above the fourth, sixth, and seventh.

Astaryuu: /* Onyx */

2026-02-08T08:50:49Z

Onyx

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:50, 8 February 2026
Line 171:		Line 171:
	\|}		\|}

	~~{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}~~
	==Other scales==		==Other scales==
	There are some other scales though, that don't seem to use any consistent stacking pattern or anything like that. Such nice patterns are called MOSes, and not all scales are MOSes.		There are some other scales though, that don't seem to use any consistent stacking pattern or anything like that. Such nice patterns are called MOSes, and not all scales are MOSes.

Astaryuu: /* Other scales */

2026-02-08T08:50:28Z

Other scales

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:50, 8 February 2026
Line 172:		Line 172:

	{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}		{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}
			==Other scales==
			There are some other scales though, that don't seem to use any consistent stacking pattern or anything like that. Such nice patterns are called MOSes, and not all scales are MOSes.

	===Zarlino/Nicetone===		===Zarlino/Nicetone===
	This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, with a perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and a wolf fifth above the fourth, sixth, and seventh.		This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, with a perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and a wolf fifth above the fourth, sixth, and seventh.

Astaryuu: /* Octave-periodic scales */

2026-02-08T08:48:53Z

Octave-periodic scales

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:48, 8 February 2026
Line 172:		Line 172:

	{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}		{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}
	==Zarlino/Nicetone==		===Zarlino/Nicetone===
	This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, with a perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and a wolf fifth above the fourth, sixth, and seventh.		This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, with a perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and a wolf fifth above the fourth, sixth, and seventh.

	This scale is actually chiral, with a "right-handed" variation and a "left-handed" variation. Right-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {1, 3, 2, 1} in ~~them~~, while left-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {1, 2, 3, 1} in them. This has dramatic implications. Left-handed zarlino major has a perfect fifth on second position, while right-handed zarlino major has a wolf fifth there instead. Conversely, a ninth chord on the root sounds more major in right-handed zarlino major than in left-handed zarlino major (since it uses the second scale degree).		This scale is actually chiral, with a "right-handed" variation and a "left-handed" variation. Right-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''3 2''' 1} in some order, while left-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {3 2 3 1 '''2 3''' 1} in them. This has dramatic implications. Left-handed zarlino major has a perfect fifth on second position, while right-handed zarlino major has a wolf fifth there instead. Conversely, a ninth chord on the root sounds more major in right-handed zarlino major than in left-handed zarlino major (since it uses the second scale degree).

	Zarlino modes get the same names as their equivalent diatonic modes, maybe with a "Nice-" in front.		Zarlino modes get the same names as their equivalent diatonic modes, maybe with a "Nice-" in front. For reference, right-handed nice-ionian (major) has the gap pattern {3 2 1 3 2 3 1}, and left-handed nice-ionian has the gap pattern {2 3 1 3 2 3 1}.

	=What to do with all these scales=		=What to do with all these scales=

Astaryuu: /* Octave-periodic scales */Add zarlino

2026-02-08T08:40:39Z

Octave-periodic scales: Add zarlino

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:40, 8 February 2026
Line 171:		Line 171:
	\|}		\|}

	==What to do with all these scales==		{{edobox\|Right-handed zarlino-ionian\|0\|3\|5\|6\|9\|11\|14}}
			==Zarlino/Nicetone==
			This is the equivalent of diatonic for 15edo. However, unlike a true diatonic, zarlino isn't a MOS. This is because diatonic expects a generator of a coprime fifth, but 9\15 can't be its generator since it isn't coprime, and 8\15 can't be a generator because 8\15-based scales have only one small jump rather than the expected two. So, we mix the two, with a perfect fifth above the root, fourth, and fifth, and a wolf fifth above the fourth, sixth, and seventh.

			This scale is actually chiral, with a "right-handed" variation and a "left-handed" variation. Right-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {1, 3, 2, 1} in them, while left-handed zarlino modes have the gap pattern {1, 2, 3, 1} in them. This has dramatic implications. Left-handed zarlino major has a perfect fifth on second position, while right-handed zarlino major has a wolf fifth there instead. Conversely, a ninth chord on the root sounds more major in right-handed zarlino major than in left-handed zarlino major (since it uses the second scale degree).

			Zarlino modes get the same names as their equivalent diatonic modes, maybe with a "Nice-" in front.

			=What to do with all these scales=
	You could, of course, stick to one scale or even one individual scale mode in your piece and be perfectly fine. The strategy works for 12edo, why not 15? However, what proponents of 15edo will say is that its strength is in its modularity. It's arguably easier to step between keys and scales in your works in 15edo than in 12edo.		You could, of course, stick to one scale or even one individual scale mode in your piece and be perfectly fine. The strategy works for 12edo, why not 15? However, what proponents of 15edo will say is that its strength is in its modularity. It's arguably easier to step between keys and scales in your works in 15edo than in 12edo.

Astaryuu: /* What to do with all these scales */

2025-07-10T09:10:27Z

What to do with all these scales

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:10, 10 July 2025
Line 175:		Line 175:

	One trick you can do is to write each movement (or segment or whatever you wish to call it) in a smaller scale, like putting your verse in onyx carnelian or writing a slendric scale introduction. Then, when you wish to switch your scale, use one of the larger scale degrees that contains both notes of your current scale and the target to make a transition. The greats of 15edo suggest a blackwood mode for this purpose, but a hyrulic mode could also work, in my opinion. This is a lot like transitioning between two keys in traditional music theory, but on a grander scale (pun unintended). By using the higher scale as a framework, you can enter a new scale without jarring the listener with a sudden note that shouldn't belong to the original scale.		One trick you can do is to write each movement (or segment or whatever you wish to call it) in a smaller scale, like putting your verse in onyx carnelian or writing a slendric scale introduction. Then, when you wish to switch your scale, use one of the larger scale degrees that contains both notes of your current scale and the target to make a transition. The greats of 15edo suggest a blackwood mode for this purpose, but a hyrulic mode could also work, in my opinion. This is a lot like transitioning between two keys in traditional music theory, but on a grander scale (pun unintended). By using the higher scale as a framework, you can enter a new scale without jarring the listener with a sudden note that shouldn't belong to the original scale.

			I could even see sticking to a small scale, but opening up to a larger scale, perhaps with a dense, Follin-esque arpeggio, to make the chorus sound bolder. This is essentially the same idea as the previous, but hold the transition into a new scale (or do it anyway in the next verse - the world's your oyster).

Astaryuu: /* Onyx */

2025-07-10T09:08:01Z

Onyx

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:08, 10 July 2025
Line 170:		Line 170:
	\| Locrian		\| Locrian
	\|}		\|}

			==What to do with all these scales==
			You could, of course, stick to one scale or even one individual scale mode in your piece and be perfectly fine. The strategy works for 12edo, why not 15? However, what proponents of 15edo will say is that its strength is in its modularity. It's arguably easier to step between keys and scales in your works in 15edo than in 12edo.

			One trick you can do is to write each movement (or segment or whatever you wish to call it) in a smaller scale, like putting your verse in onyx carnelian or writing a slendric scale introduction. Then, when you wish to switch your scale, use one of the larger scale degrees that contains both notes of your current scale and the target to make a transition. The greats of 15edo suggest a blackwood mode for this purpose, but a hyrulic mode could also work, in my opinion. This is a lot like transitioning between two keys in traditional music theory, but on a grander scale (pun unintended). By using the higher scale as a framework, you can enter a new scale without jarring the listener with a sudden note that shouldn't belong to the original scale.