Talk:Tuning map - Revision history

Sintel at 20:18, 26 April 2025

2025-04-26T20:18:19Z

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	As for the so-called "(subgroup) tuning map", the existing term is "(tempered-prime) tuning map". See [[Dave Keenan & Douglas Blumeyer's guide to RTT/Conventions for names, variables, units, and notations]]. Please do not impose idiosyncratic terms without discussing it when another term already exists. If someone reverts your edit, you should discuss instead of bluntly reinstating your own work which was just reverted. --[[User:Fredg999\|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999\|talk]]) 19:21, 26 April 2025 (UTC)		As for the so-called "(subgroup) tuning map", the existing term is "(tempered-prime) tuning map". See [[Dave Keenan & Douglas Blumeyer's guide to RTT/Conventions for names, variables, units, and notations]]. Please do not impose idiosyncratic terms without discussing it when another term already exists. If someone reverts your edit, you should discuss instead of bluntly reinstating your own work which was just reverted. --[[User:Fredg999\|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999\|talk]]) 19:21, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

			: Another good reason to just get rid of "val" anyway, since it's a nonsense term invented specifically for RTT. If you use linear form / map / covector (whichever you prefer) there is no problem. – [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 20:18, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Fredg999: /* 2025-04-26 undo details */ new section

2025-04-26T19:21:45Z

2025-04-26 undo details: new section

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	– [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2025 (UTC)		– [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

			== 2025-04-26 undo details ==

			https://en.xen.wiki/index.php?title=Tuning_map&diff=194143&oldid=194113
			(To VectorGraphics)
			Tuning maps do not need to be defined in opposition to temperament maps (AKA vals). Both are linear forms (AKA covectors), so of course there's a similarity, but that comparison doesn't benefit from being done before a proper definition is given. Maybe that's how one would explain it to someone else on Discord, but that's not the best angle for a wiki page.

			As for the so-called "(subgroup) tuning map", the existing term is "(tempered-prime) tuning map". See [[Dave Keenan & Douglas Blumeyer's guide to RTT/Conventions for names, variables, units, and notations]]. Please do not impose idiosyncratic terms without discussing it when another term already exists. If someone reverts your edit, you should discuss instead of bluntly reinstating your own work which was just reverted. --[[User:Fredg999\|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999\|talk]]) 19:21, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Sintel: typo

2025-04-15T21:36:12Z

typo

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:36, 15 April 2025
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	:: Not sure why you said formal primes had little to do with this page. A formal prime is a JI subgroup basis element, whose tuning is given by each entry of the tuning map. What else could each entry of the tuning map represent? [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 20:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)		:: Not sure why you said formal primes had little to do with this page. A formal prime is a JI subgroup basis element, whose tuning is given by each entry of the tuning map. What else could each entry of the tuning map represent? [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 20:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

	::: I believe the confusion was about the generator tuning map specifically. I've ~~remove~~ the reference to 'formal prime' from that section.		::: I believe the confusion was about the generator tuning map specifically. I've removed the reference to 'formal prime' from that section.
	::: In general I prefer to just assume a prime basis unless it's relevant not to. Calling them 'basis elements' is fine but maybe overly technical.		::: In general I prefer to just assume a prime basis unless it's relevant not to. Calling them 'basis elements' is fine but maybe overly technical.
	::: – [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 21:33, 15 April 2025 (UTC)		::: – [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 21:33, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

Sintel at 21:33, 15 April 2025

2025-04-15T21:33:02Z

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	:: Not sure why you said formal primes had little to do with this page. A formal prime is a JI subgroup basis element, whose tuning is given by each entry of the tuning map. What else could each entry of the tuning map represent? [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 20:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)		:: Not sure why you said formal primes had little to do with this page. A formal prime is a JI subgroup basis element, whose tuning is given by each entry of the tuning map. What else could each entry of the tuning map represent? [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 20:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

			::: I believe the confusion was about the generator tuning map specifically. I've remove the reference to 'formal prime' from that section.
			::: In general I prefer to just assume a prime basis unless it's relevant not to. Calling them 'basis elements' is fine but maybe overly technical.
			::: – [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 21:33, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

	: The formal primes are said w.r.t. the JI subgroup. There's nothing to generalize. Magic's formal primes are 2, 3, 5, and 7. Magic's generators are ~2 and ~5/4. Perhaps you're confused by the terminology. Then let's say ''basis element of the JI subgroup'', okay? [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 20:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)		: The formal primes are said w.r.t. the JI subgroup. There's nothing to generalize. Magic's formal primes are 2, 3, 5, and 7. Magic's generators are ~2 and ~5/4. Perhaps you're confused by the terminology. Then let's say ''basis element of the JI subgroup'', okay? [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 20:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

FloraC: Re

2025-04-15T20:57:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:57, 15 April 2025
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	: Not sure what you are confused about here. Formal primes have little to do with this page.		: Not sure what you are confused about here. Formal primes have little to do with this page.
	: – [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 19:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)		: – [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 19:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

			:: Not sure why you said formal primes had little to do with this page. A formal prime is a JI subgroup basis element, whose tuning is given by each entry of the tuning map. What else could each entry of the tuning map represent? [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 20:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

			: The formal primes are said w.r.t. the JI subgroup. There's nothing to generalize. Magic's formal primes are 2, 3, 5, and 7. Magic's generators are ~2 and ~5/4. Perhaps you're confused by the terminology. Then let's say ''basis element of the JI subgroup'', okay? [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 20:57, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

			: <small>P.S. pls remember to sign your comment with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>. </small>

	== Misleading pseudoinverse ==		== Misleading pseudoinverse ==

Sintel: forgot to sign

2025-04-15T20:14:52Z

forgot to sign

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:14, 15 April 2025
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	T = GM = TM^{+}M \neq T		T = GM = TM^{+}M \neq T
	</math>		</math>


	since the pseudoinverse is only a right-inverse.		since the pseudoinverse is only a right-inverse.

			– [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

Sintel: /* Misleading pseudoinverse */ new section

2025-04-15T20:13:56Z

Misleading pseudoinverse: new section

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	: Not sure what you are confused about here. Formal primes have little to do with this page.		: Not sure what you are confused about here. Formal primes have little to do with this page.
	: – [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 19:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)		: – [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 19:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

			== Misleading pseudoinverse ==

			The use of the pseudoinverse here is kind of misleading since it is given:

			:<math>
			\begin{align}
			T &= GM\\
			G &= TM^{+}
			\end{align}
			</math>

			Which immediately leads to a contradiction if we substitute:

			:<math>
			T = GM = TM^{+}M \neq T
			</math>

			since the pseudoinverse is only a right-inverse.

Sintel: /* "Generator tuning map" */

2025-04-15T19:34:20Z

"Generator tuning map"

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:34, 15 April 2025
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	== "Generator tuning map" ==		== "Generator tuning map" ==

			In the intro, it says a tuning map has one entry for each basis element (---> generator) of the temperament. This is also the best generalization of the concept of "formal primes" to a temperament, yet the page makes a distinction between tuning maps based on generators and on formal primes, for some reason, even though I'm pretty sure such a distinction is entirely meaningless.

	~~In the intro, it says a tuning map has one entry for each basis element (---> generator) of the temperament~~. ~~This is also the best generalization of the concept of "formal~~ primes" to ~~a temperament, yet the~~ page ~~makes a distinction between tuning maps based on generators and on formal primes~~, ~~for some reason, even though I'm pretty sure such a distinction is entirely meaningless.~~		: Not sure what you are confused about here. Formal primes have little to do with this page.
			: – [[User:Sintel\|Sintel🎏]] ([[User_talk:Sintel\|talk]]) 19:34, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

VectorGraphics: /* "Generator tuning map" */ new section

2025-04-15T17:16:09Z

"Generator tuning map": new section

← Older revision	Revision as of 17:16, 15 April 2025
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		== "Generator tuning map" ==


		In the intro, it says a tuning map has one entry for each basis element (---> generator) of the temperament. This is also the best generalization of the concept of "formal primes" to a temperament, yet the page makes a distinction between tuning maps based on generators and on formal primes, for some reason, even though I'm pretty sure such a distinction is entirely meaningless.

VectorGraphics: Created blank page

2025-04-15T17:13:06Z

Created blank page

New page