Talk:Relative interval error - Revision history

FloraC at 15:27, 30 August 2021

2021-08-30T15:27:02Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:27, 30 August 2021
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	::: I'm not attached to direct, but "val-based mapping" seems really mathy. You have to know what a val is to even begin to understand it. Speaking of terminology, I find "val" to be pretty confusing. IMO terminology should be at least somewhat self-explanatory. Like "edostep", which I coined but never said what it meant. I never had to, I just started using it and everyone got it at once. The literal meaning of val is value, or number, which isn't explanatory at all. That's why I prefer the term edomapping. "Patent val" is also confusing, because patent in the sense of obvious is, well, not obvious. I prefer "nearest edomapping", but you could make a case for "obvious edomapping". Anyway, just my opinions. --[[User:TallKite\|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite\|talk]]) 05:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)		::: I'm not attached to direct, but "val-based mapping" seems really mathy. You have to know what a val is to even begin to understand it. Speaking of terminology, I find "val" to be pretty confusing. IMO terminology should be at least somewhat self-explanatory. Like "edostep", which I coined but never said what it meant. I never had to, I just started using it and everyone got it at once. The literal meaning of val is value, or number, which isn't explanatory at all. That's why I prefer the term edomapping. "Patent val" is also confusing, because patent in the sense of obvious is, well, not obvious. I prefer "nearest edomapping", but you could make a case for "obvious edomapping". Anyway, just my opinions. --[[User:TallKite\|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite\|talk]]) 05:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

			:::: It's been quite some time. After trying a couple of different terms in the communication on Discord, I find "direct approximation" and "val mapping" are the least confusing combo. All it takes for a novice is to learn what a val is. Once that's done, no amibiguities could possibly arise. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 15:27, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Xenwolf: Xenwolf moved page Talk:Relative Interval Error to Talk:Relative interval error: remove capitalization within the lemma

2021-04-07T10:22:17Z

Xenwolf moved page Talk:Relative Interval Error to Talk:Relative interval error: remove capitalization within the lemma

← Older revision	Revision as of 10:22, 7 April 2021
(No difference)

Mike Battaglia: Mike Battaglia moved page Talk:Relative error to Talk:Relative Interval Error: The term "Relative Error" has been used for a very long time to refer to the TE temperament thing, so I'd like to clarify in the title that this is something new. "Relative Interval Error" seems to fit

2021-04-06T08:54:52Z

Mike Battaglia moved page Talk:Relative error to Talk:Relative Interval Error: The term "Relative Error" has been used for a very long time to refer to the TE temperament thing, so I'd like to clarify in the title that this is something new. "Relative Interval Error" seems to fit

← Older revision	Revision as of 08:54, 6 April 2021
(No difference)

TallKite: /* Term "indirect mapping" */

2020-12-14T05:41:05Z

Term "indirect mapping"

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:41, 14 December 2020
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	:: Thanks for the explanation. Yes, only now I see, I that I mixed the sides up. I actually knew what you explained right now. I'm not sure if the word "indirect" is confusing here. My "derived" was seems also unclear. I find that "indirect" has something negative; what about "val mapping" or "val-based mapping"? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 15:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)		:: Thanks for the explanation. Yes, only now I see, I that I mixed the sides up. I actually knew what you explained right now. I'm not sure if the word "indirect" is confusing here. My "derived" was seems also unclear. I find that "indirect" has something negative; what about "val mapping" or "val-based mapping"? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 15:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

			::: I'm not attached to direct, but "val-based mapping" seems really mathy. You have to know what a val is to even begin to understand it. Speaking of terminology, I find "val" to be pretty confusing. IMO terminology should be at least somewhat self-explanatory. Like "edostep", which I coined but never said what it meant. I never had to, I just started using it and everyone got it at once. The literal meaning of val is value, or number, which isn't explanatory at all. That's why I prefer the term edomapping. "Patent val" is also confusing, because patent in the sense of obvious is, well, not obvious. I prefer "nearest edomapping", but you could make a case for "obvious edomapping". Anyway, just my opinions. --[[User:TallKite\|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite\|talk]]) 05:41, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Xenwolf: /* Term "indirect mapping" */ re

2020-12-11T15:01:44Z

Term "indirect mapping": re

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	: To be precise, "direct" means a ratio, no matter whether it's part of the ji basis (i.e. prime) or not, is simply rounded to the closest edostep; "indirect" means using vals and monzos and take an inner product. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 12:52, 11 December 2020 (UTC)		: To be precise, "direct" means a ratio, no matter whether it's part of the ji basis (i.e. prime) or not, is simply rounded to the closest edostep; "indirect" means using vals and monzos and take an inner product. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 12:52, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

			:: Thanks for the explanation. Yes, only now I see, I that I mixed the sides up. I actually knew what you explained right now. I'm not sure if the word "indirect" is confusing here. My "derived" was seems also unclear. I find that "indirect" has something negative; what about "val mapping" or "val-based mapping"? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 15:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

FloraC: /* Term "indirect mapping" */ re

2020-12-11T12:52:52Z

Term "indirect mapping": re

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	Can this interpreted as "derived mapping"? Direct means that a prime is mapped to EDO steps, while indirect means some expression involvin more than one prime is mapped. Is this correct? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 11:18, 11 December 2020 (UTC)		Can this interpreted as "derived mapping"? Direct means that a prime is mapped to EDO steps, while indirect means some expression involvin more than one prime is mapped. Is this correct? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 11:18, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

			: To be precise, "direct" means a ratio, no matter whether it's part of the ji basis (i.e. prime) or not, is simply rounded to the closest edostep; "indirect" means using vals and monzos and take an inner product. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 12:52, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Xenwolf: /* Term "indirect mapping" */ new section

2020-12-11T11:18:37Z

Term "indirect mapping": new section

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	:: Relative error is a type of error, whereas relative cent is a measurement of the relative error. It's possible to use other measurements. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 09:28, 11 December 2020 (UTC)		:: Relative error is a type of error, whereas relative cent is a measurement of the relative error. It's possible to use other measurements. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 09:28, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

			== Term "indirect mapping" ==

			Can this interpreted as "derived mapping"? Direct means that a prime is mapped to EDO steps, while indirect means some expression involvin more than one prime is mapped. Is this correct? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 11:18, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

FloraC: /* Unclear */ re

2020-12-11T09:28:06Z

Unclear: re

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	I also question "an edo which is the sum of some other edos have their relative errors additive". 13-edo and 18-edo both sharpen 3/2 a lot, but 31-edo flattens it slightly. --[[User:TallKite\|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite\|talk]]) 06:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)		I also question "an edo which is the sum of some other edos have their relative errors additive". 13-edo and 18-edo both sharpen 3/2 a lot, but 31-edo flattens it slightly. --[[User:TallKite\|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite\|talk]]) 06:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

			: For 3/2, the 31 patent val (18\31) is different from the sum of 13edo and 18edo (8\13 + 11\18). It's the 31b val (19\31) that satisfies the additivity. To find the relative error of 18\31 you must reduce the error of 19\31 by exactly 100% (1 edostep). [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 09:28, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

	: I'm not sure, but it seems that there is a bit of overlapping with the article [[Relative cent]], at least I tend to see both as synonyms of each other. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 07:40, 11 December 2020 (UTC)		: I'm not sure, but it seems that there is a bit of overlapping with the article [[Relative cent]], at least I tend to see both as synonyms of each other. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 07:40, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

			:: Relative error is a type of error, whereas relative cent is a measurement of the relative error. It's possible to use other measurements. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 09:28, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Xenwolf: /* Unclear */ link to relative

2020-12-11T07:40:07Z

Unclear: link to relative

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:40, 11 December 2020
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	I also question "an edo which is the sum of some other edos have their relative errors additive". 13-edo and 18-edo both sharpen 3/2 a lot, but 31-edo flattens it slightly. --[[User:TallKite\|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite\|talk]]) 06:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)		I also question "an edo which is the sum of some other edos have their relative errors additive". 13-edo and 18-edo both sharpen 3/2 a lot, but 31-edo flattens it slightly. --[[User:TallKite\|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite\|talk]]) 06:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

			: I'm not sure, but it seems that there is a bit of overlapping with the article [[Relative cent]], at least I tend to see both as synonyms of each other. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 07:40, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

TallKite: Created page with "== Unclear == Now that this article is linked to from the edo template, it will get a lot of views from newbies. But it's not written very clearly. "Closest mapping" sounds li..."

2020-12-11T06:44:27Z

Created page with "== Unclear == Now that this article is linked to from the edo template, it will get a lot of views from newbies. But it's not written very clearly. "Closest mapping" sounds li..."

New page

== Unclear ==
Now that this article is linked to from the edo template, it will get a lot of views from newbies. But it's not written very clearly. "Closest mapping" sounds like it refers to the patent val aka nearest edomapping. I changed this to "direct mapping".

I rewrote the article to make it clearer, but the "Additivity" section needs more work.

"a ratio which is the product of some other ratios have their relative errors additive" -- this is often not true for a direct mapping. And yet the article doesn't make this clear.

I also question "an edo which is the sum of some other edos have their relative errors additive". 13-edo and 18-edo both sharpen 3/2 a lot, but 31-edo flattens it slightly. --[[User:TallKite|TallKite]] ([[User talk:TallKite|talk]]) 06:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)