Talk:Porcupine Album Project - Revision history

BudjarnLambeth at 23:51, 1 May 2025

2025-05-01T23:51:12Z

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	I would like to revive this project. How about a disco track in 22edo porcupine[7]? --[[User:MisterShafXen]] (30 Apr 2025)		I would like to revive this project. How about a disco track in 22edo porcupine[7]?

			--[[User:MisterShafXen]] (30 Apr 2025)

	: Probably the best way to revive the project is to get the ball rolling by making a contribution of your own first, so I think you should definitely make that track, I look forward to hearing it :)		: Probably the best way to revive the project is to get the ball rolling by making a contribution of your own first, so I think you should definitely make that track, I look forward to hearing it :)

	: Many of the people in the [https://m.facebook.com/groups/xenwiki/?ref=share XenWiki Workgroup on Facebook] are quite interested in porcupine so I recommend sharing your piece there and explaining that you are wanting to revive this project. That group is not very active so it might take a while for people to see it, but I think they will definitely like it once they do :)		: Many of the people in the [https://m.facebook.com/groups/xenwiki/?ref=share XenWiki Workgroup on Facebook] are quite interested in porcupine so I recommend sharing your piece there and explaining that you are wanting to revive this project. That group is not very active so it might take a while for people to see it, but I think they will definitely like it once they do :)

	: --[[User:BudjarnLambeth\|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth\|talk]]) 23:50, 1 May 2025 (UTC)		: --[[User:BudjarnLambeth\|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth\|talk]]) 23:50, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

BudjarnLambeth: Added name tag and replied

2025-05-01T23:50:40Z

Added name tag and replied

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:50, 1 May 2025
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	I would like to revive this project. How about a disco track in 22edo porcupine[7]?		I would like to revive this project. How about a disco track in 22edo porcupine[7]? --[[User:MisterShafXen]] (30 Apr 2025)
			: Probably the best way to revive the project is to get the ball rolling by making a contribution of your own first, so I think you should definitely make that track, I look forward to hearing it :)
			: Many of the people in the [https://m.facebook.com/groups/xenwiki/?ref=share XenWiki Workgroup on Facebook] are quite interested in porcupine so I recommend sharing your piece there and explaining that you are wanting to revive this project. That group is not very active so it might take a while for people to see it, but I think they will definitely like it once they do :)
			: --[[User:BudjarnLambeth\|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth\|talk]]) 23:50, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

MisterShafXen at 13:04, 30 April 2025

2025-04-30T13:04:26Z

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			I would like to revive this project. How about a disco track in 22edo porcupine[7]?

Mike Battaglia: 1 revision imported: Moving archived Wikispaces discussion to subpage

2018-10-01T18:02:41Z

1 revision imported: Moving archived Wikispaces discussion to subpage

← Older revision	Revision as of 18:02, 1 October 2018
(No difference)

WikispacesArchive>Mike Battaglia: Text replacement - "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''" to "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.''' ''...

2018-10-01T18:01:16Z

Text replacement - "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''" to "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.''' <span style="color:#800000">''...

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:01, 1 October 2018
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	~~= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =~~		{{WSArchiveLink}}
	~~'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''~~

	~~<span style="color:#800000">'''PLEASE MAKE ANY NEW COMMENTS <u>ABOVE</u> THIS SECTION.'''</span> Anything below here is for archival purposes only.~~

	~~----~~

	~~== Notation ==~~
	~~Somehow I don't like the proposal for porcupine notation - it looks so non-standard to me. What's wrong with Sagittal?~~

	~~- '''hstraub''' July 16, 2012, 12:03:08 PM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~Hi Hans,~~

	If I understand correctly, although you can notate all the Porcupine EDOs in Sagittal with no problem, Sagittal does not provide a way to notate a generalized Porcupine. But maybe I am wrong about this.

	I like the Porcupine notation proposal because everything is derived from the structure of Porcupine. It has a correspondence to the alphabet which is superior to that of meantone; the discontinuity in the alphabet (either G-A in Porcupine[7] or H-A in Porcupine[8]) corresponds to a discontinuity in the generator chain. Thus I know that D-A, which crosses over the discontinuity (goes backwards in the alphabet) will be a different interval than A-E, which doesn't. In meantone, the fact that D-E is a different size than E-F is not clear at all from the notation or the letter names, and needs to be learned.

	~~Perhaps this notation will not stick, but I'm interested in giving it a try. For this project it is only a suggestion. Indeed, notation may not even come up.~~

	~~- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 19, 2012, 11:27:35 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~Well, alright. I see the logic in the notation, from the porcupine point of view.~~

	~~- '''hstraub''' July 21, 2012, 03:41:38 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~

	~~== Reference pitch C ==~~
	~~I am aware that using the same base frequency tuning is useful when playing in ensembles or collaborating...~~

	But I'm thinking that it's not useful to have the whole album use the same note for C. Why? Because some folks will use 15-edo, some 22-edo, some TOP etc... and I doubt many of us will write in the key of C, so we could potentially have tracks which are each in a key with only a few cents difference between them. Given that this could easily be the case, what's the need for keeping the same reference C?

	~~Other than that I don't particularly object to it. Certainly maintaining a reference pitch is useful, though only on a per-track basis imo.~~

	~~- '''Sean_Archibald''' July 11, 2012, 08:52:36 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	IIRC, Dustin on XA originally proposed the C reference frequency. I didn't/don't have any strong feelings about it, myself. I would guess the rationale is that it could give a more cohesive sound to the album. In my experience, it can be a little disorienting in 12edo when songs in the same mix have different reference pitches. But we're already inviting that issue by allowing different flavors of Porcupine, 15, 22, TOP etc.

	If that seems problematic, we could divide the album into sections based on the version of Porcupine in use. We could even go so far as to order the sections by size of the Porcupine generator, from 15 to 29 or something like that. And then each section would maintain the same reference frequency, and there would be some kind of discontinuity between the sections.

	~~This might be overthinking it, though.~~

	~~- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 16, 2012, 11:13:48 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~Yes it may be overthinking it. Shouldn't track lists be devised by the feeling rather than reference frequency?~~

	~~I see no way around it. As long as we have different flavours of porcupine the reference frequency isn't going to matter.~~

	~~For what it's worth I tend to use the proposed C reference frequency anyway because it is the default in Scala! :)~~

	~~- '''Sean_Archibald''' July 23, 2012, 12:58:18 PM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~

	~~== Where is the main discussion ==~~
	~~Apparently the main discussion about this project is going on somewhere else. Where is that, Facebook?~~

	~~- '''hstraub''' July 04, 2012, 02:44:35 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~Hi Hans,~~

	Yes, Facebook is where the seeds for this project were sown. Not very much has been decided yet, and the "what we think we knows" on this page may still be up for discussion. There also hasn't been any music posted yet. I think the plan is to use this page as much as we can, since it's permanent and public.

	~~I'm glad you're joining us!~~

	~~Regards,~~

	~~Andrew Heathwaite~~

	~~- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 04, 2012, 10:59:10 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~Glad to be a part of this. I think it is a good idea to keep this off of facebook to reduce distractions.~~

	~~- '''vaisvil''' July 04, 2012, 12:46:17 PM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~OK. It might have been a reason for me to join facebook - but I'll stay here so far, then.~~

	~~- '''hstraub''' July 05, 2012, 04:27:16 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~

Mike Battaglia: Text replacement - "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''" to "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.''' ''...

2018-09-20T07:00:46Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:00, 20 September 2018
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	= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =		= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =
	'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''		'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''

			<span style="color:#800000">'''PLEASE MAKE ANY NEW COMMENTS <u>ABOVE</u> THIS SECTION.'''</span> Anything below here is for archival purposes only.

	----		----

Wikispaces>FREEZE at 00:00, 17 July 2018

2018-07-17T00:00:00Z

New page

= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =
'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''
----

== Notation ==
Somehow I don't like the proposal for porcupine notation - it looks so non-standard to me. What's wrong with Sagittal?

- '''hstraub''' July 16, 2012, 12:03:08 PM UTC-0700
----
Hi Hans,

If I understand correctly, although you can notate all the Porcupine EDOs in Sagittal with no problem, Sagittal does not provide a way to notate a generalized Porcupine. But maybe I am wrong about this.

I like the Porcupine notation proposal because everything is derived from the structure of Porcupine. It has a correspondence to the alphabet which is superior to that of meantone; the discontinuity in the alphabet (either G-A in Porcupine[7] or H-A in Porcupine[8]) corresponds to a discontinuity in the generator chain. Thus I know that D-A, which crosses over the discontinuity (goes backwards in the alphabet) will be a different interval than A-E, which doesn't. In meantone, the fact that D-E is a different size than E-F is not clear at all from the notation or the letter names, and needs to be learned.

Perhaps this notation will not stick, but I'm interested in giving it a try. For this project it is only a suggestion. Indeed, notation may not even come up.

- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 19, 2012, 11:27:35 AM UTC-0700
----
Well, alright. I see the logic in the notation, from the porcupine point of view.

- '''hstraub''' July 21, 2012, 03:41:38 AM UTC-0700
----

== Reference pitch C ==
I am aware that using the same base frequency tuning is useful when playing in ensembles or collaborating...

But I'm thinking that it's not useful to have the whole album use the same note for C. Why? Because some folks will use 15-edo, some 22-edo, some TOP etc... and I doubt many of us will write in the key of C, so we could potentially have tracks which are each in a key with only a few cents difference between them. Given that this could easily be the case, what's the need for keeping the same reference C?

Other than that I don't particularly object to it. Certainly maintaining a reference pitch is useful, though only on a per-track basis imo.

- '''Sean_Archibald''' July 11, 2012, 08:52:36 AM UTC-0700
----
IIRC, Dustin on XA originally proposed the C reference frequency. I didn't/don't have any strong feelings about it, myself. I would guess the rationale is that it could give a more cohesive sound to the album. In my experience, it can be a little disorienting in 12edo when songs in the same mix have different reference pitches. But we're already inviting that issue by allowing different flavors of Porcupine, 15, 22, TOP etc.

If that seems problematic, we could divide the album into sections based on the version of Porcupine in use. We could even go so far as to order the sections by size of the Porcupine generator, from 15 to 29 or something like that. And then each section would maintain the same reference frequency, and there would be some kind of discontinuity between the sections.

This might be overthinking it, though.

- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 16, 2012, 11:13:48 AM UTC-0700
----
Yes it may be overthinking it. Shouldn't track lists be devised by the feeling rather than reference frequency?

I see no way around it. As long as we have different flavours of porcupine the reference frequency isn't going to matter.

For what it's worth I tend to use the proposed C reference frequency anyway because it is the default in Scala! :)

- '''Sean_Archibald''' July 23, 2012, 12:58:18 PM UTC-0700
----

== Where is the main discussion ==
Apparently the main discussion about this project is going on somewhere else. Where is that, Facebook?

- '''hstraub''' July 04, 2012, 02:44:35 AM UTC-0700
----
Hi Hans,

Yes, Facebook is where the seeds for this project were sown. Not very much has been decided yet, and the "what we think we knows" on this page may still be up for discussion. There also hasn't been any music posted yet. I think the plan is to use this page as much as we can, since it's permanent and public.

I'm glad you're joining us!

Regards,

Andrew Heathwaite

- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 04, 2012, 10:59:10 AM UTC-0700
----
Glad to be a part of this. I think it is a good idea to keep this off of facebook to reduce distractions.

- '''vaisvil''' July 04, 2012, 12:46:17 PM UTC-0700
----
OK. It might have been a reason for me to join facebook - but I'll stay here so far, then.

- '''hstraub''' July 05, 2012, 04:27:16 AM UTC-0700
----