Talk:Neji - Revision history

BudjarnLambeth at 07:39, 15 September 2024

2024-09-15T07:39:10Z

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	::: I am happy to interpret “near-equal” as meaning the step sizes of the NEJI are nearly equal to the step sizes of the target scale. I just think the term “near-equal” needs to be mentioned since it is in widespread use, including by the inventor of the term “NEJI”.		::: I am happy to interpret “near-equal” as meaning the step sizes of the NEJI are nearly equal to the step sizes of the target scale. I just think the term “near-equal” needs to be mentioned since it is in widespread use, including by the inventor of the term “NEJI”.

	In terms of which scales count as near equal or near equivalent, I think the two terms are synonymous, so they apply to all NEJIs. However “near equal” is sometimes used to refer to only those NEJIS where the target scale is an equal-step tuning. So that could be something I could mention in the article?--[[User:BudjarnLambeth\|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth\|talk]]) 07:38, 15 September 2024 (UTC)		:::In terms of which scales count as near equal or near equivalent, I think the two terms are synonymous, so they apply to all NEJIs. However “near equal” is sometimes used to refer to only those NEJIS where the target scale is an equal-step tuning. So that could be something I could mention in the article?--[[User:BudjarnLambeth\|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth\|talk]]) 07:38, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

BudjarnLambeth: Continued discussion

2024-09-15T07:38:52Z

Continued discussion

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	:: "Near-equivalent JI" is a generalization of "near-equal JI" which is the reason that term was chosen; this is also justified by that technically "near-equal" doesn't tell you what it is nearly equal to, unless you interpret "near-equal" as meaning that the ''step sizes'' are "near-equal"; AFAIK that was originally the case so that aspect of the meaning could be included. But the generalization from "edos as targets" to "any tempered target" is very natural as far as I can tell. To me if any aspect is worth debating it's the terminology "harmodal" which was only added to preserve the historical colloquial meaning of "neji". --[[User:Godtone\|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone\|talk]]) 16:23, 14 September 2024 (UTC)		:: "Near-equivalent JI" is a generalization of "near-equal JI" which is the reason that term was chosen; this is also justified by that technically "near-equal" doesn't tell you what it is nearly equal to, unless you interpret "near-equal" as meaning that the ''step sizes'' are "near-equal"; AFAIK that was originally the case so that aspect of the meaning could be included. But the generalization from "edos as targets" to "any tempered target" is very natural as far as I can tell. To me if any aspect is worth debating it's the terminology "harmodal" which was only added to preserve the historical colloquial meaning of "neji". --[[User:Godtone\|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone\|talk]]) 16:23, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

			::: I am happy to interpret “near-equal” as meaning the step sizes of the NEJI are nearly equal to the step sizes of the target scale. I just think the term “near-equal” needs to be mentioned since it is in widespread use, including by the inventor of the term “NEJI”.

			In terms of which scales count as near equal or near equivalent, I think the two terms are synonymous, so they apply to all NEJIs. However “near equal” is sometimes used to refer to only those NEJIS where the target scale is an equal-step tuning. So that could be something I could mention in the article?--[[User:BudjarnLambeth\|BudjarnLambeth]] ([[User talk:BudjarnLambeth\|talk]]) 07:38, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Godtone: response abt neji abbreviation

2024-09-14T16:23:36Z

response abt neji abbreviation

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	: To be honest, I had completely forgotten that the community had discussed the "near-equivalent" version, as I more often think about it as "near-equal" anyway. We could mention "near-equal" in the History section, where it is explained that Zhea coined "neji". That said, since Zhea's meaning might still be in use, I would also include it at the top. For that matter, the page could do a better job at distinguishing the kind of nejis that qualify as near-equal and those that qualify as near-equivalent, but I'll leave it to others if they're interested. --[[User:Fredg999\|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999\|talk]]) 15:37, 14 September 2024 (UTC)		: To be honest, I had completely forgotten that the community had discussed the "near-equivalent" version, as I more often think about it as "near-equal" anyway. We could mention "near-equal" in the History section, where it is explained that Zhea coined "neji". That said, since Zhea's meaning might still be in use, I would also include it at the top. For that matter, the page could do a better job at distinguishing the kind of nejis that qualify as near-equal and those that qualify as near-equivalent, but I'll leave it to others if they're interested. --[[User:Fredg999\|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999\|talk]]) 15:37, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

			:: "Near-equivalent JI" is a generalization of "near-equal JI" which is the reason that term was chosen; this is also justified by that technically "near-equal" doesn't tell you what it is nearly equal to, unless you interpret "near-equal" as meaning that the ''step sizes'' are "near-equal"; AFAIK that was originally the case so that aspect of the meaning could be included. But the generalization from "edos as targets" to "any tempered target" is very natural as far as I can tell. To me if any aspect is worth debating it's the terminology "harmodal" which was only added to preserve the historical colloquial meaning of "neji". --[[User:Godtone\|Godtone]] ([[User talk:Godtone\|talk]]) 16:23, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Fredg999: /* NEJI stands for… */ Re

2024-09-14T15:37:25Z

NEJI stands for…: Re

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	and keep the rest of the page the same?		and keep the rest of the page the same?

			: To be honest, I had completely forgotten that the community had discussed the "near-equivalent" version, as I more often think about it as "near-equal" anyway. We could mention "near-equal" in the History section, where it is explained that Zhea coined "neji". That said, since Zhea's meaning might still be in use, I would also include it at the top. For that matter, the page could do a better job at distinguishing the kind of nejis that qualify as near-equal and those that qualify as near-equivalent, but I'll leave it to others if they're interested. --[[User:Fredg999\|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999\|talk]]) 15:37, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

BudjarnLambeth: /* NEJI stands for… */

2024-09-14T13:15:37Z

NEJI stands for…

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	to		to

	A '''neji''' or '''NEJI''' (pronounced /nɛdʒi/ "nedgy"; for "near-equivalent [[just intonation]]" or "near-equal [[just intonation]]"		A '''neji''' or '''NEJI''' (pronounced /nɛdʒi/ "nedgy"; for "near-equivalent [[just intonation]]" or "near-equal [[just intonation]]")

	and keep the rest of the page the same?		and keep the rest of the page the same?

BudjarnLambeth: Suggested mentioning the other thing the acronym could stand for

2024-09-14T13:15:24Z

Suggested mentioning the other thing the acronym could stand for

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	My current recommendation is that we create a page for "quasi-equal rational tunings" and have NEJI redirect there instead, since NEJI is not synonymous with overtone scales, but actually synonymous with the concept which as far as I can tell was first described by George Secor here: http://www.anaphoria.com/secor-blarney.html		My current recommendation is that we create a page for "quasi-equal rational tunings" and have NEJI redirect there instead, since NEJI is not synonymous with overtone scales, but actually synonymous with the concept which as far as I can tell was first described by George Secor here: http://www.anaphoria.com/secor-blarney.html
	--[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 20:03, 15 March 2021		--[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 20:03, 15 March 2021

			== NEJI stands for… ==

			I still don’t feel comfortable not mentioning the term “near-equal just intonation” even once on the whole page. That ''was'' the term Zhea originally proposed and still uses, and many other people use it too, it needs to be on here.

			Maybe we could change

			A '''neji''' or '''NEJI''' (pronounced /nɛdʒi/ "nedgy"; for "near-equivalent [[just intonation]]")

			to

			A '''neji''' or '''NEJI''' (pronounced /nɛdʒi/ "nedgy"; for "near-equivalent [[just intonation]]" or "near-equal [[just intonation]]"

			and keep the rest of the page the same?

Cmloegcmluin: /* The Neji lemma */

2021-03-16T03:05:46Z

The Neji lemma

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	The '''[[Neji]]''' lemma seems to have the tendency to expand. Maybe a disambiguation would fit better than a plain redirect, because of the [[Well temperament]]s which also aim to equalize their steps. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 07:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)		The '''[[Neji]]''' lemma seems to have the tendency to expand. Maybe a disambiguation would fit better than a plain redirect, because of the [[Well temperament]]s which also aim to equalize their steps. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 07:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

			My current recommendation is that we create a page for "quasi-equal rational tunings" and have NEJI redirect there instead, since NEJI is not synonymous with overtone scales, but actually synonymous with the concept which as far as I can tell was first described by George Secor here: http://www.anaphoria.com/secor-blarney.html
			--[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 20:03, 15 March 2021

Xenwolf: /* The Neji lemma */ new section

2020-10-01T07:51:23Z

The Neji lemma: new section

New page

== The Neji lemma ==

The '''[[Neji]]''' lemma seems to have the tendency to expand. Maybe a disambiguation would fit better than a plain redirect, because of the [[Well temperament]]s which also aim to equalize their steps. --[[User:Xenwolf|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf|talk]]) 07:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)