Talk:Musical notation - Revision history

Mousemambo: /* Musical notation or disambiguation page */ clarified "Harmonic limit" as article for describing Prime factor notation

2023-10-02T19:51:51Z

Musical notation or disambiguation page: clarified "Harmonic limit" as article for describing Prime factor notation

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:51, 2 October 2023
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	::Thank you Fredg999!		::Thank you Fredg999!
	::* I believe the most common usage of the [-1, 0, -1] vector notation that I've encountered is as exponents of primes in JI, which I just now found named as "prime factor notation" [http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/article/article.htm here]. Perhaps a one-paragraph section called "Prime factor notation" in the [[Prime number]] article would be appropriate to document this and add a link to it on the disambiguation page?		::* I believe the most common usage of the [-1, 0, -1] vector notation that I've encountered is as exponents of primes in JI, which I just now found named as "prime factor notation" [http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/article/article.htm here]. Perhaps a one-paragraph section called "Prime factor notation" in the [[Prime number]] article would be appropriate to document this and add a link to it on the disambiguation page? [[User:Mousemambo\|Mousemambo]] ([[User talk:Mousemambo\|talk]]) 08:10, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
			:::Looking deeper, I now believe that a description of prime factor notation would best belong in the article [[Harmonic limit]] rather than Prime number as I suggested first. But see FloraC's comment below -- I need to study further. [[User:Mousemambo\|Mousemambo]] ([[User talk:Mousemambo\|talk]]) 19:51, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
	::* I will stay alert for any usages of notation for a list of scale degrees, in square brackets or otherwise. The proper musicological notation for "scale degree" would put a caret (aka circumflex accent) over each number, but that's an unusual character to type and is without a standard for HTML display or a useful Unicode coding (there's no way to put a caret over an eleven). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_(music) Wikipedia:Degree music#Major and minor scales] uses SVG graphics for them. Specialized music fonts (e.g. [http://hindson.com.au/info/free/free-fonts-available-for-download/ Free music fonts]) work in some conditions are not a good solution for a wiki. If there doesn't seem to be a "set of scale degrees" standard, we could lead by example, by including it in the list of notations, but I agree it should be omitted for now. [[User:Mousemambo\|Mousemambo]] ([[User talk:Mousemambo\|talk]]) 08:10, 2 October 2023 (UTC)		::* I will stay alert for any usages of notation for a list of scale degrees, in square brackets or otherwise. The proper musicological notation for "scale degree" would put a caret (aka circumflex accent) over each number, but that's an unusual character to type and is without a standard for HTML display or a useful Unicode coding (there's no way to put a caret over an eleven). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_(music) Wikipedia:Degree music#Major and minor scales] uses SVG graphics for them. Specialized music fonts (e.g. [http://hindson.com.au/info/free/free-fonts-available-for-download/ Free music fonts]) work in some conditions are not a good solution for a wiki. If there doesn't seem to be a "set of scale degrees" standard, we could lead by example, by including it in the list of notations, but I agree it should be omitted for now. [[User:Mousemambo\|Mousemambo]] ([[User talk:Mousemambo\|talk]]) 08:10, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

	::: I think the form like "[-1, 0, -1]" is still monzo notation. It just doesn't go with the stylistic choice of bra-kets, but the contents are exactly the same, tho it should be [-1, 0, -1]<sup>T</sup>, with the transpose symbol. Sintel's temp finder uses exactly this form. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 18:53, 2 October 2023 (UTC)		::: I think the form like "[-1, 0, -1]" is still monzo notation. It just doesn't go with the stylistic choice of bra-kets, but the contents are exactly the same, tho it should be [-1, 0, -1]<sup>T</sup>, with the transpose symbol. Sintel's temp finder uses exactly this form. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 18:53, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

FloraC: re about "vector notation"

2023-10-02T18:53:39Z

re about "vector notation"

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:53, 2 October 2023
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	::* I believe the most common usage of the [-1, 0, -1] vector notation that I've encountered is as exponents of primes in JI, which I just now found named as "prime factor notation" [http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/article/article.htm here]. Perhaps a one-paragraph section called "Prime factor notation" in the [[Prime number]] article would be appropriate to document this and add a link to it on the disambiguation page?		::* I believe the most common usage of the [-1, 0, -1] vector notation that I've encountered is as exponents of primes in JI, which I just now found named as "prime factor notation" [http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/article/article.htm here]. Perhaps a one-paragraph section called "Prime factor notation" in the [[Prime number]] article would be appropriate to document this and add a link to it on the disambiguation page?
	::* I will stay alert for any usages of notation for a list of scale degrees, in square brackets or otherwise. The proper musicological notation for "scale degree" would put a caret (aka circumflex accent) over each number, but that's an unusual character to type and is without a standard for HTML display or a useful Unicode coding (there's no way to put a caret over an eleven). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_(music) Wikipedia:Degree music#Major and minor scales] uses SVG graphics for them. Specialized music fonts (e.g. [http://hindson.com.au/info/free/free-fonts-available-for-download/ Free music fonts]) work in some conditions are not a good solution for a wiki. If there doesn't seem to be a "set of scale degrees" standard, we could lead by example, by including it in the list of notations, but I agree it should be omitted for now. [[User:Mousemambo\|Mousemambo]] ([[User talk:Mousemambo\|talk]]) 08:10, 2 October 2023 (UTC)		::* I will stay alert for any usages of notation for a list of scale degrees, in square brackets or otherwise. The proper musicological notation for "scale degree" would put a caret (aka circumflex accent) over each number, but that's an unusual character to type and is without a standard for HTML display or a useful Unicode coding (there's no way to put a caret over an eleven). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_(music) Wikipedia:Degree music#Major and minor scales] uses SVG graphics for them. Specialized music fonts (e.g. [http://hindson.com.au/info/free/free-fonts-available-for-download/ Free music fonts]) work in some conditions are not a good solution for a wiki. If there doesn't seem to be a "set of scale degrees" standard, we could lead by example, by including it in the list of notations, but I agree it should be omitted for now. [[User:Mousemambo\|Mousemambo]] ([[User talk:Mousemambo\|talk]]) 08:10, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

			::: I think the form like "[-1, 0, -1]" is still monzo notation. It just doesn't go with the stylistic choice of bra-kets, but the contents are exactly the same, tho it should be [-1, 0, -1]<sup>T</sup>, with the transpose symbol. Sintel's temp finder uses exactly this form. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 18:53, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Mousemambo: /* Musical notation or disambiguation page */

2023-10-02T08:10:12Z

Musical notation or disambiguation page

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:10, 2 October 2023
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	:* Node pages are deprecated, I wouldn't pay them too much attention.		:* Node pages are deprecated, I wouldn't pay them too much attention.
	:[[User:Fredg999\|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999\|talk]]) 00:29, 2 October 2023 (UTC)		:[[User:Fredg999\|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999\|talk]]) 00:29, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

			::Thank you Fredg999!
			::* I believe the most common usage of the [-1, 0, -1] vector notation that I've encountered is as exponents of primes in JI, which I just now found named as "prime factor notation" [http://tonalsoft.com/monzo/article/article.htm here]. Perhaps a one-paragraph section called "Prime factor notation" in the [[Prime number]] article would be appropriate to document this and add a link to it on the disambiguation page?
			::* I will stay alert for any usages of notation for a list of scale degrees, in square brackets or otherwise. The proper musicological notation for "scale degree" would put a caret (aka circumflex accent) over each number, but that's an unusual character to type and is without a standard for HTML display or a useful Unicode coding (there's no way to put a caret over an eleven). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degree_(music) Wikipedia:Degree music#Major and minor scales] uses SVG graphics for them. Specialized music fonts (e.g. [http://hindson.com.au/info/free/free-fonts-available-for-download/ Free music fonts]) work in some conditions are not a good solution for a wiki. If there doesn't seem to be a "set of scale degrees" standard, we could lead by example, by including it in the list of notations, but I agree it should be omitted for now. [[User:Mousemambo\|Mousemambo]] ([[User talk:Mousemambo\|talk]]) 08:10, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Fredg999: /* Musical notation or disambiguation page */ re

2023-10-02T00:29:24Z

Musical notation or disambiguation page: re

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:29, 2 October 2023
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	* [0 5 10 15 20 25 30] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Otonal 17]]).)		* [0 5 10 15 20 25 30] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Otonal 17]]).)
	* 2.3.5 [[Just intonation subgroup]]		* 2.3.5 [[Just intonation subgroup]]
	* (aL bs) ([[Scale signature]]		* (aL bs) ([[Scale signature]])
	* Whatever is going on with the page "[[List of MOS scales in 12edo]]"		* Whatever is going on with the page "[[List of MOS scales in 12edo]]"
	* Whatever is going on with the page "[[Supermajor node]]"		* Whatever is going on with the page "[[Supermajor node]]"
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	I suggest that the content of this page be moved to a new page "Musical notation" (to match the title of the Wikipedia page) to focus on xenharmonic musical notation, and that this page become a disambiguation page to provide examples, names and article links for various sorts of notations that are unique to xenharmonic music or rare elsewhere, of which xen musical notation is only one. [[User:Mousemambo\|Mousemambo]] ([[User talk:Mousemambo\|talk]]) 19:44, 1 October 2023 (UTC)		I suggest that the content of this page be moved to a new page "Musical notation" (to match the title of the Wikipedia page) to focus on xenharmonic musical notation, and that this page become a disambiguation page to provide examples, names and article links for various sorts of notations that are unique to xenharmonic music or rare elsewhere, of which xen musical notation is only one. [[User:Mousemambo\|Mousemambo]] ([[User talk:Mousemambo\|talk]]) 19:44, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

			: I moved "Notation" to "Musical notation" and turned "Notation" into a disambiguation page. There will be some more cleanup to do afterwards, but in the meantime I can explain the notations I haven't yet included in the new "Notation" page:
			:* Color notation is already listed in "Musical notation".
			:* [-1, 0, -1] is standard mathematical notation for vectors (with either round or square brackets). Nested vectors are matrices. Both vectors and matrices are used a lot in RTT.
			:* [0 5 10 15 20 25 30] is a notation for scale degrees (e.g. the major scale in 12edo would be [0 2 4 5 7 9 11]). I'm not sure if the brackets are standard, but using degrees is relatively normal.
			:* [[List of MOS scales in 12edo]] uses a notation for scale steps (e.g. the major scale in 12edo would be 2 2 1 2 2 2 1. I'm not sure if the lack of brackets is standard, but using steps is relatively normal. This notation and the previous one look very similar, but context is usually sufficient to distinguish them, although a proper standard certainly wouldn't hurt.
			:* Node pages are deprecated, I wouldn't pay them too much attention.
			:[[User:Fredg999\|Fredg999]] ([[User talk:Fredg999\|talk]]) 00:29, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Fredg999: Fredg999 moved page Talk:Notation to Talk:Musical notation: Make way for "notation" to become a disambiguation page

2023-10-01T23:32:00Z

Fredg999 moved page Talk:Notation to Talk:Musical notation: Make way for "notation" to become a disambiguation page

← Older revision	Revision as of 23:32, 1 October 2023
(No difference)

Mousemambo: /* Musical notation or disambiguation page */

2023-10-01T22:22:58Z

Musical notation or disambiguation page

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:22, 1 October 2023
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	* 6:7:9 (Frequency ratios of a chord given in simplified notation? Set of natural harmonic partials?)		* 6:7:9 (Frequency ratios of a chord given in simplified notation? Set of natural harmonic partials?)
	* [-1 1 0⟩ ([[Monzo]] and [[val]] and and [[Extended bra-ket notation]])		* [-1 1 0⟩ ([[Monzo]] and [[val]] and and [[Extended bra-ket notation]])
	* LLsLLLs (Some will already understand this others will not. At the time I write this, [[Step pattern]] redirects to [[Scale]] which doesn't present any step pattern notation~~. Not~~ good.)		* LLsLLLs (Some will already understand this others will not. At the time I write this, [[Step pattern]] redirects to [[Scale]] which doesn't present any step pattern notation -- not good.)
	* [-1, 0, -1] (~~I don't know what~~ this notation ~~means, e~~.g. [[Dwarf22marv]] and [[Linemarv12]])		* [-1, 0, -1] (What do you call this notation? E.g. [[Dwarf22marv]] and [[Linemarv12]].)
	* [0 5 10 15 20 25 30] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Otonal 17]]).)		* [0 5 10 15 20 25 30] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Otonal 17]]).)
	* 2.3.5 [[Just intonation subgroup]]		* 2.3.5 [[Just intonation subgroup]]
			* (aL bs) ([[Scale signature]]
	* Whatever is going on with the page "[[List of MOS scales in 12edo]]"		* Whatever is going on with the page "[[List of MOS scales in 12edo]]"
	* Whatever is going on with the page "[[Supermajor node]]"		* Whatever is going on with the page "[[Supermajor node]]"

Mousemambo: /* Musical notation or disambiguation page */

2023-10-01T22:17:50Z

Musical notation or disambiguation page

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:17, 1 October 2023
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	* [-1, 0, -1] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Dwarf22marv]] and [[Linemarv12]])		* [-1, 0, -1] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Dwarf22marv]] and [[Linemarv12]])
	* [0 5 10 15 20 25 30] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Otonal 17]]).)		* [0 5 10 15 20 25 30] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Otonal 17]]).)
			* 2.3.5 [[Just intonation subgroup]]
	* Whatever is going on with the page "[[List of MOS scales in 12edo]]"		* Whatever is going on with the page "[[List of MOS scales in 12edo]]"
	* Whatever is going on with the page "[[Supermajor node]]"		* Whatever is going on with the page "[[Supermajor node]]"

Mousemambo: /* Musical notation or disambiguation page */

2023-10-01T20:56:04Z

Musical notation or disambiguation page

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:56, 1 October 2023
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	* Mavila[7] (vs [[Mavila]])		* Mavila[7] (vs [[Mavila]])
	* yaza nowa ([[Color notation]])		* yaza nowa ([[Color notation]])
			* 6:7:9 (Frequency ratios of a chord given in simplified notation? Set of natural harmonic partials?)
	* [-1 1 0⟩ ([[Monzo]] and [[val]] and and [[Extended bra-ket notation]])		* [-1 1 0⟩ ([[Monzo]] and [[val]] and and [[Extended bra-ket notation]])
	* LLsLLLs (Some will already understand this others will not. At the time I write this, [[Step pattern]] redirects to [[Scale]] which doesn't present any step pattern notation. Not good.)		* LLsLLLs (Some will already understand this others will not. At the time I write this, [[Step pattern]] redirects to [[Scale]] which doesn't present any step pattern notation. Not good.)

Mousemambo: /* Musical notation or disambiguation page */

2023-10-01T20:16:29Z

Musical notation or disambiguation page

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:16, 1 October 2023
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	* Mavila[7] (vs [[Mavila]])		* Mavila[7] (vs [[Mavila]])
	* yaza nowa ([[Color notation]])		* yaza nowa ([[Color notation]])
	* [-1 1 0⟩ ([[Monzo]] and [[Extended bra-ket notation]])		* [-1 1 0⟩ ([[Monzo]] and [[val]] and and [[Extended bra-ket notation]])
	* LLsLLLs (Some will already understand this others will not. At the time I write this, [[Step pattern]] redirects to [[Scale]] which doesn't present any step pattern notation. Not good.)		* LLsLLLs (Some will already understand this others will not. At the time I write this, [[Step pattern]] redirects to [[Scale]] which doesn't present any step pattern notation. Not good.)
	* [-1, 0, -1] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Dwarf22marv]] and [[Linemarv12]])		* [-1, 0, -1] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Dwarf22marv]] and [[Linemarv12]])

Mousemambo: /* Musical notation or disambiguation page */

2023-10-01T20:12:07Z

Musical notation or disambiguation page

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:12, 1 October 2023
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	* [0 5 10 15 20 25 30] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Otonal 17]]).)		* [0 5 10 15 20 25 30] (I don't know what this notation means, e.g. [[Otonal 17]]).)
	* Whatever is going on with the page "[[List of MOS scales in 12edo]]"		* Whatever is going on with the page "[[List of MOS scales in 12edo]]"
			* Whatever is going on with the page "[[Supermajor node]]"
	* More that I haven't encountered yet?		* More that I haven't encountered yet?