Talk:Marvel temperaments - Revision history

FloraC at 10:58, 25 June 2026

2026-06-25T10:58:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:58, 25 June 2026
Line 79:		Line 79:
	== Links to other marvel temperaments ==		== Links to other marvel temperaments ==
	I was the one who added these details in the first place so I know what I'm doing by undoing them. All these details don't inform much yet they take an enormous amount of space, making these links difficult to use. If you want to know about one of these temps, click the link and you'll likely find a description on what it does. —[[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 10:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC)		I was the one who added these details in the first place so I know what I'm doing by undoing them. All these details don't inform much yet they take an enormous amount of space, making these links difficult to use. If you want to know about one of these temps, click the link and you'll likely find a description on what it does. —[[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 10:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

			== Decic ==
			Uses the same mapping for 13 in all its extensions, so the 11-limit extension may be decanonicalized in favor of the 2.3.5.7.13 subgroup interpretation. —[[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 10:58, 25 June 2026 (UTC)

FloraC at 10:19, 2 May 2026

2026-05-02T10:19:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:19, 2 May 2026
Line 73:		Line 73:

	== Add another temperament ==		== Add another temperament ==
			May I add a 17-limit extension of [[python]], that can be described by the EDO join 12f&103? --[[User:Overthink\|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink\|talk]]) 02:28, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

	~~May I add a 17~~-limit ~~extension of~~ [[~~python~~]], ~~that can be described~~ by the ~~EDO join 12f&103? --~~[[User:~~Overthink~~\|~~Overthink~~]] ([[User talk:~~Overthink~~\|talk]]) 02:28, ~~28 September 2025~~ (UTC)		: Sure tho idk if that's the right mapping for the 11-limit and 13-limit. —[[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 10:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

			== Links to other marvel temperaments ==
			I was the one who added these details in the first place so I know what I'm doing by undoing them. All these details don't inform much yet they take an enormous amount of space, making these links difficult to use. If you want to know about one of these temps, click the link and you'll likely find a description on what it does. —[[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 10:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

Overthink: Added signature

2025-09-28T02:28:49Z

Added signature

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:28, 28 September 2025
Line 74:		Line 74:
	== Add another temperament ==		== Add another temperament ==

	May I add a 17-limit extension of [[python]], that can be described by the EDO join 12f&103?		May I add a 17-limit extension of [[python]], that can be described by the EDO join 12f&103? --[[User:Overthink\|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink\|talk]]) 02:28, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

Overthink: /* Add another temperament */ new section

2025-09-28T02:28:07Z

Add another temperament: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:28, 28 September 2025
Line 71:		Line 71:
	::::::::::: Okay, thanks for explaining that, Flora.		::::::::::: Okay, thanks for explaining that, Flora.
	::::::::::: I did some more research and added notes about the -pent and -sept suffixes to the [[Temperament names]] page under Diminished and dimipent, and linked to there from the sensi section as well as the new section you added to the Negri page. This leaves me satisfied. Feel free to discuss or revise further if I've missed anything. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 22:52, 29 June 2023 (UTC)		::::::::::: I did some more research and added notes about the -pent and -sept suffixes to the [[Temperament names]] page under Diminished and dimipent, and linked to there from the sensi section as well as the new section you added to the Negri page. This leaves me satisfied. Feel free to discuss or revise further if I've missed anything. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 22:52, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

			== Add another temperament ==

			May I add a 17-limit extension of [[python]], that can be described by the EDO join 12f&103?

Cmloegcmluin: /* Relation between "Negripent" and Negri */

2023-06-29T22:52:48Z

Relation between "Negripent" and Negri

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:52, 29 June 2023
Line 68:		Line 68:

	:::::::::: ''Semisept'' should be analysed as ''semi-'' prefixed on ''sept'' so the ''sept'' isn't a "suffix" as in ''sensisept'' tho it appears identical. I added a short description to the temperament. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 07:55, 28 June 2023 (UTC)		:::::::::: ''Semisept'' should be analysed as ''semi-'' prefixed on ''sept'' so the ''sept'' isn't a "suffix" as in ''sensisept'' tho it appears identical. I added a short description to the temperament. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 07:55, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

			::::::::::: Okay, thanks for explaining that, Flora.
			::::::::::: I did some more research and added notes about the -pent and -sept suffixes to the [[Temperament names]] page under Diminished and dimipent, and linked to there from the sensi section as well as the new section you added to the Negri page. This leaves me satisfied. Feel free to discuss or revise further if I've missed anything. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 22:52, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

FloraC: /* Relation between "Negripent" and Negri */ re

2023-06-28T07:55:05Z

Relation between "Negripent" and Negri: re

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:55, 28 June 2023
Line 66:		Line 66:
	same, and I don't want one.</nowiki>		same, and I don't want one.</nowiki>
	::::::::: So that gives some additional insight to the use of these prefixes, though I haven't yet found the original proposal of this distinction that Graham is referring to. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 21:51, 27 June 2023 (UTC)		::::::::: So that gives some additional insight to the use of these prefixes, though I haven't yet found the original proposal of this distinction that Graham is referring to. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 21:51, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

			:::::::::: ''Semisept'' should be analysed as ''semi-'' prefixed on ''sept'' so the ''sept'' isn't a "suffix" as in ''sensisept'' tho it appears identical. I added a short description to the temperament. [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 07:55, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Cmloegcmluin: /* Relation between "Negripent" and Negri */

2023-06-27T21:51:54Z

Relation between "Negripent" and Negri

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:51, 27 June 2023
Line 50:		Line 50:
	::::::::: --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 17:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)		::::::::: --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 17:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
	::::::::: I just noticed something else while looking at the [[Temperament names]] page. It appears that the "sept-" prefix was used as a suffix in a temperament name ''but in a different way'' than this pattern which was meant to indicate the prime limit. In the name "semisept" it's probably meant to convey the septimal nature of a major sixth (which is semi'd, so I suppose this is a variation on the outdated temperament name "semisixths", which is probably somehow related to sensi; this temperament does not appear, however, to be the same thing as sensisept / 7-limit sensi, as we can see here: https://yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup.github.io/tuning/topicId_74762#74779). So that's just another complication to consider in our documentation of this naming pattern. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 21:13, 27 June 2023 (UTC)		::::::::: I just noticed something else while looking at the [[Temperament names]] page. It appears that the "sept-" prefix was used as a suffix in a temperament name ''but in a different way'' than this pattern which was meant to indicate the prime limit. In the name "semisept" it's probably meant to convey the septimal nature of a major sixth (which is semi'd, so I suppose this is a variation on the outdated temperament name "semisixths", which is probably somehow related to sensi; this temperament does not appear, however, to be the same thing as sensisept / 7-limit sensi, as we can see here: https://yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup.github.io/tuning/topicId_74762#74779). So that's just another complication to consider in our documentation of this naming pattern. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 21:13, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
			::::::::: One more thing. I found this page (https://yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup.github.io/tuning/topicId_97783.html#98172) where Graham writes:
			<nowiki>The "sept"/"pent" distinction was according to a rule I never agreed
			with. I think it was that the TOP tunings had to be the same for the
			name to be the same. Gene ignores it. I don't care much either way
			for established names, but I may have to keep "Sensisept" because it
			exists in a higher limit. I can see the rule makes some sense if
			we're talking about temperaments, as I understand them. The existence
			of the rule may indicate Paul was understanding temperaments a similar
			way. But as I understand temperament classes (which is similar to how
			others understand regular temperaments) the tuning is allowed to vary
			over a wide range. There are subjective rules I follow when I share
			names over different limits and we can talk about individual cases if
			you like. I don't have a fixed definition, or deterministic
			algorithm, for deciding if two things in different limits are the
			same, and I don't want one.</nowiki>
			::::::::: So that gives some additional insight to the use of these prefixes, though I haven't yet found the original proposal of this distinction that Graham is referring to. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 21:51, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Cmloegcmluin: /* Relation between "Negripent" and Negri */

2023-06-27T21:13:39Z

Relation between "Negripent" and Negri

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:13, 27 June 2023
Line 49:		Line 49:
	::::::::: I suppose all I'd really ask for is a note on at least one page somewhere explaining how for dimipent and sensipent, the "-pent" part was originally meant to indicate the 5-limit, but has since lost that meaning, without disappearing as it did in the case of negripent → negri.		::::::::: I suppose all I'd really ask for is a note on at least one page somewhere explaining how for dimipent and sensipent, the "-pent" part was originally meant to indicate the 5-limit, but has since lost that meaning, without disappearing as it did in the case of negripent → negri.
	::::::::: --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 17:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)		::::::::: --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 17:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
			::::::::: I just noticed something else while looking at the [[Temperament names]] page. It appears that the "sept-" prefix was used as a suffix in a temperament name ''but in a different way'' than this pattern which was meant to indicate the prime limit. In the name "semisept" it's probably meant to convey the septimal nature of a major sixth (which is semi'd, so I suppose this is a variation on the outdated temperament name "semisixths", which is probably somehow related to sensi; this temperament does not appear, however, to be the same thing as sensisept / 7-limit sensi, as we can see here: https://yahootuninggroupsultimatebackup.github.io/tuning/topicId_74762#74779). So that's just another complication to consider in our documentation of this naming pattern. --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 21:13, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Cmloegcmluin: /* Relation between "Negripent" and Negri */

2023-06-23T17:00:45Z

Relation between "Negripent" and Negri

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:00, 23 June 2023
Line 44:		Line 44:

	:::::::: [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 05:10, 23 June 2023 (UTC)		:::::::: [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 05:10, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

			::::::::: Thanks for this, Flora. In this case, I'm more than happy for the answers to my suggestions to be "no". I admit that I can be a bit of a consistency-phile sometimes...even when I dislike the thing I'm consistentizing! You've clearly shown here that the proper state for these temperament names — with respect to this weird prefix-suffix naming pattern that some folks tried out in the past — is inconsistency. When naming patterns like this get subjected to historical forces they often start falling apart, and this is just one of those messier cases. So I accept that things are what they are.
			::::::::: Re: making negri as a family, then, if anyone does want to pursue it, that's totally fine with me; I don't care either way.
			::::::::: I suppose all I'd really ask for is a note on at least one page somewhere explaining how for dimipent and sensipent, the "-pent" part was originally meant to indicate the 5-limit, but has since lost that meaning, without disappearing as it did in the case of negripent → negri.
			::::::::: --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 17:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

FloraC: re

2023-06-23T05:10:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:10, 23 June 2023
Line 34:		Line 34:
	::::::: I think the answer to each of those questions is "yes". Finally, I suggest that all three of these pages should acknowledge and briefly explain the naming pattern shared among them, to prevent inconsistencies between them from developing in the future.		::::::: I think the answer to each of those questions is "yes". Finally, I suggest that all three of these pages should acknowledge and briefly explain the naming pattern shared among them, to prevent inconsistencies between them from developing in the future.
	::::::: --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 16:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)		::::::: --[[User:Cmloegcmluin\|Cmloegcmluin]] ([[User talk:Cmloegcmluin\|talk]]) 16:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

			:::::::: My general answer to all the questions is no, remarking:

			:::::::: ''Negripent'' and ''negrisept'' occurred in Middle Path (2006), but not in Tuning Continua (2008), or so described by any existing music in the temperament, so these are just deprecated names no longer in use. Even for ''negra'' I'm not that sure it should continue to be labeled as official since negri extends just naturally to the 2.3.5.7.13 subgroup. ''Sensisept'' and ''dimisept'' should be considered obsolete for the same reason, along with ''semisixths''. I haven't seen anyone utter these alternative names since the 2010s.

			:::::::: Maybe there's a fair reason why ''sensipent'' stuck – the 5-limit is considerably more accurate than the main 7-limit extension, and there are many other reasonable extensions. Whether that's enough to justify separate names for 5- and 7-limit sensi is debatable.

			:::::::: Finally, if we're to identify negri as the head of a family, it seems we should immediately name an alternative extension to it. 19 & 48 and 29 & 48 might be good to consider.

			:::::::: [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 05:10, 23 June 2023 (UTC)