Talk:Harmony of 23edo - Revision history

Mike Battaglia: 1 revision imported: Moving archived Wikispaces discussion to subpage

2018-10-01T18:02:37Z

1 revision imported: Moving archived Wikispaces discussion to subpage

← Older revision	Revision as of 18:02, 1 October 2018
(No difference)

WikispacesArchive>Mike Battaglia: Text replacement - "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''" to "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.''' ''...

2018-10-01T18:01:16Z

Text replacement - "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''" to "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.''' <span style="color:#800000">''...

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:01, 1 October 2018
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	~~= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =~~		{{WSArchiveLink}}
	~~'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''~~

	~~<span style="color:#800000">'''PLEASE MAKE ANY NEW COMMENTS <u>ABOVE</u> THIS SECTION.'''</span> Anything below here is for archival purposes only.~~

	~~----~~

	~~== drift ==~~
	~~I originally wrote this article in July 2009, & starting on May 2, I notice there have been many changes made, & at this point it's drifted pretty far from what I originally intended.~~

	I wanted to point out th nearness of certain intervals in 23edo to certain members of th harmonic series. A guest, with good intentions I imagine, changed all th intervals on th chart to th nearest JI ratio, which is different from th nearest harmonic.

	~~A chart showing th nearest harmonics is a different chart from a chart showing th nearest JI ratios.~~

	It seems to me that making a change like that to an article warrants conversation in th discussion tab, but I see that th discussion tab contains no conversation whatsoever about content -- only about wiki structure.

	So I am initiating conversation. Everything that follows that chart is based on th idea that 23edo well-approximates certain high harmonics, & without that clearly indicated in th introduction, I think th idea is lost.

	~~I'm not going to make any changes at this point to th page itself, but I wanted to start that conversation.~~

	~~- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 24, 2010, 02:29:29 PM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~Can you please describe the difference between the nearest harmonic interval and nearest JI interval (as new articles - starting) from your point of view?~~

	~~- '''xenwolf''' August 06, 2010, 05:07:38 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~There are already some notes under~~

	~~<ul><li>Nearest just interval</li><li>nearest harmonic - seems not to be the same ;-)</li></ul>~~

	~~- '''xenwolf''' August 06, 2010, 05:17:08 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	By "nearest harmonic interval," I meant to refer to octave-reduced overtones -- ratios with some multiple of 2 on th bottom. My original list can be seen in th page "history," & includes only octave-reduced overtones.

	I now recognize that I missed some important overtones (such as th 13th, which is only 6 cents away from 16 degrees of 23edo!) & that my method of finding close approximations of high-limit harmonic chords was not th best. Specifically, by seeking out only overtones at th beginning of th process, I unintentionally omit harmonic chords which would be in-tune if th fundamental is omitted.

	Ideally, I would start this project over & come up with a different set of chords. I doubt that I will do this soon. At this point, I consider both my original article (which was a sort of thinking-out-loud experiment anyway) & th current article insufficient....

	~~- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' August 06, 2010, 05:55:28 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	Ok, I got your idea of harmonics. I understood it as "simple ratios" first. Now, what do you think, what JI intervals could be? I'm interested in some metrics of tunings/systems - I want to make some small software tools for that (maybe in python or so)... BTW: what makes an octave-reduced harmonic

	~~mathematically "nearest"?~~

	~~- '''xenwolf''' August 06, 2010, 06:18:01 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~

	~~== move to 23edo article ==~~
	What makes the most sense would be to merge this with the 23edo article, which mostly consists of a giant picture of a guitar at the moment. The guitat belongs at the bottom, and this should go on top.

	~~- '''genewardsmith''' June 22, 2010, 12:58:16 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	I'm not sure. I mean large articles less useful for linking to it. I suggest to try to couple articles by navigation templates. Here is a test. Getting it on a better position (for example at the right margin), is left as todo :-)

	~~- '''xenwolf''' June 22, 2010, 02:32:45 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~Oh, I forgot:~~

	~~http://98ab76cd54ef.wikispaces.com/navigation+template+test~~

	~~- '''xenwolf''' June 22, 2010, 02:33:08 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~

	~~== Rename ==~~
	~~The article talks about triads, tetrads,... I think another name was better now. What do you think about Harmony of 23edo (with a redirect from the old page of course)?~~

	~~- '''xenwolf''' June 15, 2010, 12:19:47 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~I like the title "Harmony of 23edo".~~

	~~- '''Osmiorisbendi''' June 21, 2010, 09:49:39 PM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~Great! Then let's do it.~~

	~~- '''xenwolf''' June 22, 2010, 12:04:10 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~I don't think this article attempts to explain "Harmony in 23edo," but rather one modest approach to developing harmony that makes use of relatively high harmonics that 23edo approximates well.~~

	~~There are many other possible approaches to harmony in 23edo than that given on this page.~~

	I mention this in th interest of polydescriptionism; a page as specific as this should not (says me) get th last word on a topic as general as "Harmony in 23edo," about which a thousand other things could be said.

	~~- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 24, 2010, 02:32:08 PM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	Would it be better to make this article an overview and restoring your old intention under the original title (Meantime, I forgot it) linking to it? And extract TutimDeft's intention into another article, linked from here too? What do you think?

	~~- '''xenwolf''' August 06, 2010, 05:12:30 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~

Mike Battaglia: Text replacement - "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''" to "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.''' ''...

2018-09-20T07:00:33Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:00, 20 September 2018
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	= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =		= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =
	'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''		'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''

			<span style="color:#800000">'''PLEASE MAKE ANY NEW COMMENTS <u>ABOVE</u> THIS SECTION.'''</span> Anything below here is for archival purposes only.

	----		----

Wikispaces>FREEZE at 00:00, 17 July 2018

2018-07-17T00:00:00Z

New page

= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =
'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''
----

== drift ==
I originally wrote this article in July 2009, & starting on May 2, I notice there have been many changes made, & at this point it's drifted pretty far from what I originally intended.

I wanted to point out th nearness of certain intervals in 23edo to certain members of th harmonic series. A guest, with good intentions I imagine, changed all th intervals on th chart to th nearest JI ratio, which is different from th nearest harmonic.

A chart showing th nearest harmonics is a different chart from a chart showing th nearest JI ratios.

It seems to me that making a change like that to an article warrants conversation in th discussion tab, but I see that th discussion tab contains no conversation whatsoever about content -- only about wiki structure.

So I am initiating conversation. Everything that follows that chart is based on th idea that 23edo well-approximates certain high harmonics, & without that clearly indicated in th introduction, I think th idea is lost.

I'm not going to make any changes at this point to th page itself, but I wanted to start that conversation.

- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 24, 2010, 02:29:29 PM UTC-0700
----
Can you please describe the difference between the nearest harmonic interval and nearest JI interval (as new articles - starting) from your point of view?

- '''xenwolf''' August 06, 2010, 05:07:38 AM UTC-0700
----
There are already some notes under

<ul><li>Nearest just interval</li><li>nearest harmonic - seems not to be the same ;-)</li></ul>

- '''xenwolf''' August 06, 2010, 05:17:08 AM UTC-0700
----
By "nearest harmonic interval," I meant to refer to octave-reduced overtones -- ratios with some multiple of 2 on th bottom. My original list can be seen in th page "history," & includes only octave-reduced overtones.

I now recognize that I missed some important overtones (such as th 13th, which is only 6 cents away from 16 degrees of 23edo!) & that my method of finding close approximations of high-limit harmonic chords was not th best. Specifically, by seeking out only overtones at th beginning of th process, I unintentionally omit harmonic chords which would be in-tune if th fundamental is omitted.

Ideally, I would start this project over & come up with a different set of chords. I doubt that I will do this soon. At this point, I consider both my original article (which was a sort of thinking-out-loud experiment anyway) & th current article insufficient....

- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' August 06, 2010, 05:55:28 AM UTC-0700
----
Ok, I got your idea of harmonics. I understood it as "simple ratios" first. Now, what do you think, what JI intervals could be? I'm interested in some metrics of tunings/systems - I want to make some small software tools for that (maybe in python or so)... BTW: what makes an octave-reduced harmonic

mathematically "nearest"?

- '''xenwolf''' August 06, 2010, 06:18:01 AM UTC-0700
----

== move to 23edo article ==
What makes the most sense would be to merge this with the 23edo article, which mostly consists of a giant picture of a guitar at the moment. The guitat belongs at the bottom, and this should go on top.

- '''genewardsmith''' June 22, 2010, 12:58:16 AM UTC-0700
----
I'm not sure. I mean large articles less useful for linking to it. I suggest to try to couple articles by navigation templates. Here is a test. Getting it on a better position (for example at the right margin), is left as todo :-)

- '''xenwolf''' June 22, 2010, 02:32:45 AM UTC-0700
----
Oh, I forgot:

http://98ab76cd54ef.wikispaces.com/navigation+template+test

- '''xenwolf''' June 22, 2010, 02:33:08 AM UTC-0700
----

== Rename ==
The article talks about triads, tetrads,... I think another name was better now. What do you think about Harmony of 23edo (with a redirect from the old page of course)?

- '''xenwolf''' June 15, 2010, 12:19:47 AM UTC-0700
----
I like the title "Harmony of 23edo".

- '''Osmiorisbendi''' June 21, 2010, 09:49:39 PM UTC-0700
----
Great! Then let's do it.

- '''xenwolf''' June 22, 2010, 12:04:10 AM UTC-0700
----
I don't think this article attempts to explain "Harmony in 23edo," but rather one modest approach to developing harmony that makes use of relatively high harmonics that 23edo approximates well.

There are many other possible approaches to harmony in 23edo than that given on this page.

I mention this in th interest of polydescriptionism; a page as specific as this should not (says me) get th last word on a topic as general as "Harmony in 23edo," about which a thousand other things could be said.

- '''Andrew_Heathwaite''' July 24, 2010, 02:32:08 PM UTC-0700
----
Would it be better to make this article an overview and restoring your old intention under the original title (Meantime, I forgot it) linking to it? And extract TutimDeft's intention into another article, linked from here too? What do you think?

- '''xenwolf''' August 06, 2010, 05:12:30 AM UTC-0700
----