Talk:Archytas clan - Revision history

Overthink: /* Alternate 13-limit superpyth? */ explanation

2025-12-02T07:42:54Z

Alternate 13-limit superpyth?: explanation

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:42, 2 December 2025
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	In the canonical 13-limit extension to superpyth, prime 13 is tuned very flat unlike the other harmonics unless tunings close to 27edo are used, and 27e-edo is the only reasonable tuning of it (tunings flatter than it swap 13/12 and 14/13, and tunings sharper than it swap 11/8 and 7/5). I suggest adding the extension 22f&27e, mapping prime 13 to -14 generators, though one may be against that as this extension wouldn't be supported by any patent vals (at least not to my knowledge). One may even argue to make that extension canonical and decanonicalize the currently canonical extension, though I am personally against doing that.--[[User:Overthink\|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink\|talk]]) 19:59, 5 October 2025 (UTC)		In the canonical 13-limit extension to superpyth, prime 13 is tuned very flat unlike the other harmonics unless tunings close to 27edo are used, and 27e-edo is the only reasonable tuning of it (tunings flatter than it swap 13/12 and 14/13, and tunings sharper than it swap 11/8 and 7/5). I suggest adding the extension 22f&27e, mapping prime 13 to -14 generators, though one may be against that as this extension wouldn't be supported by any patent vals (at least not to my knowledge). One may even argue to make that extension canonical and decanonicalize the currently canonical extension, though I am personally against doing that.--[[User:Overthink\|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink\|talk]]) 19:59, 5 October 2025 (UTC)

			: In my opinion, superpyth shouldn't really have a [[13-limit]] canonical extension. 22edo and 27edo don't support it well in the full 13-limit, and though 49edo is a patent val tuning, the 49edo 13-limit patent val is very inaccurate, with errors over 24 cents, as well as failing to be [[diamond monotone]] in the [[13-odd-limit]] due to [[13/12]] being 5 steps while [[14/13]] is 6 steps. 13-limit superpyth is awkward because for 13/12 and 14/13 to not be swapped, we must have [[13/8]] be mapped no less than an octave minus half a fifth due to [[64/63]]=([[169/168]])([[512/507]]), and thus [[16/13]] mapped no greater than a hemififth. However, unless 16/13 is exactly a hemififth, then it must be mapped narrower, which cannot be done consistently unless the fifth is wider than [[256/169]]=718.9{{c}}, and thus no strong 13-limit extension of archy is supported by more than one patent val. A similar situation occurs with [[11-limit]] [[meantone]], where [[11/9]] must be mapped no less than a hemififth in order to map ([[11/10]])/([[12/11]])=[[121/120]]=([[81/80]])/([[243/242]]) nonnegatively, but 11/9 must be an exact hemififth to be consistent unless the fifth is narrower than [[121/81]]=694.8{{c}}. Note that [[19edo]] and [[26edo]] map 11/9 consistently despite not having a hemififth, due to their fifth being flatter than a just 121/81. In superpyth, however, the neutral third with this awkward situation is the 13th subharmonic, which is mapped consistently in any patent val, and only inconsistently mapped in non-patent vals.--[[User:Overthink\|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink\|talk]]) 07:42, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

Overthink: /* Alternate 13-limit superpyth? */ new section

2025-10-05T19:59:39Z

Alternate 13-limit superpyth?: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:59, 5 October 2025
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	:: Thanks. I added the synonym as redirect lemma hoping that my conclusion ''archytas'' == ''archy'' is correct. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 09:19, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		:: Thanks. I added the synonym as redirect lemma hoping that my conclusion ''archytas'' == ''archy'' is correct. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 09:19, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

			== Alternate 13-limit superpyth? ==

			In the canonical 13-limit extension to superpyth, prime 13 is tuned very flat unlike the other harmonics unless tunings close to 27edo are used, and 27e-edo is the only reasonable tuning of it (tunings flatter than it swap 13/12 and 14/13, and tunings sharper than it swap 11/8 and 7/5). I suggest adding the extension 22f&27e, mapping prime 13 to -14 generators, though one may be against that as this extension wouldn't be supported by any patent vals (at least not to my knowledge). One may even argue to make that extension canonical and decanonicalize the currently canonical extension, though I am personally against doing that.--[[User:Overthink\|Overthink]] ([[User talk:Overthink\|talk]]) 19:59, 5 October 2025 (UTC)

ArrowHead294 at 12:25, 31 March 2025

2025-03-31T12:25:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:25, 31 March 2025
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	== Rename to [[Archy family]]? ==		== Rename to [[Archy family]]? ==
			As I read in ''[[Subgroup temperament families, relationships, and genes#Families]]'', [[Dominant (temperament)\|Dominant]] belongs to [[Meantone family]] and "[[Archy family]]" and in the introduction of this article ([[Archytas clan]]), I see the Dominant temperament in the list. Any suggestions how to cope with it? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 12:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
	As I read in ''[[Subgroup ~~Temperament Families~~, ~~Relationships~~, and ~~Genes~~ #Families]]'', [[Dominant (temperament)\|Dominant]] belongs to [[Meantone family]] and "[[Archy family]]" and in the introduction of this article ([[Archytas clan]]), I see the Dominant temperament in the list. Any suggestions how to cope with it? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 12:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

	: ''Clan'' was Gene's term for ''subgroup family''. Yeah it's sometimes confusing and the use has never carried on in the community. Not all clan pages can be renamed tho, as some of the subgroup temperaments haven't got distinct names (example: ''Quince clan''). [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 17:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)		: ''Clan'' was Gene's term for ''subgroup family''. Yeah it's sometimes confusing and the use has never carried on in the community. Not all clan pages can be renamed tho, as some of the subgroup temperaments haven't got distinct names (example: ''Quince clan''). [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 17:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

	:: Thanks. I added the synonym as redirect lemma hoping that my conclusion ''archytas'' == ''archy'' is correct. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 09:19, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		:: Thanks. I added the synonym as redirect lemma hoping that my conclusion ''archytas'' == ''archy'' is correct. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 09:19, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Bcmills at 18:57, 23 August 2024

2024-08-23T18:57:55Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:57, 23 August 2024
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	== Rename to [[Archy family]]? ==		== Rename to [[Archy family]]? ==

	As I read in ''[[Subgroup Temperament Families, Relationships, and Genes #Families]]'', [[Dominant]] belongs to [[Meantone family]] and "[[Archy family]]" and in the introduction of this article ([[Archytas clan]]), I see the Dominant temperament in the list. Any suggestions how to cope with it? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 12:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)		As I read in ''[[Subgroup Temperament Families, Relationships, and Genes #Families]]'', [[Dominant (temperament)\|Dominant]] belongs to [[Meantone family]] and "[[Archy family]]" and in the introduction of this article ([[Archytas clan]]), I see the Dominant temperament in the list. Any suggestions how to cope with it? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 12:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

	: ''Clan'' was Gene's term for ''subgroup family''. Yeah it's sometimes confusing and the use has never carried on in the community. Not all clan pages can be renamed tho, as some of the subgroup temperaments haven't got distinct names (example: ''Quince clan''). [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 17:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)		: ''Clan'' was Gene's term for ''subgroup family''. Yeah it's sometimes confusing and the use has never carried on in the community. Not all clan pages can be renamed tho, as some of the subgroup temperaments haven't got distinct names (example: ''Quince clan''). [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 17:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

	:: Thanks. I added the synonym as redirect lemma hoping that my conclusion ''archytas'' == ''archy'' is correct. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 09:19, 22 May 2021 (UTC)		:: Thanks. I added the synonym as redirect lemma hoping that my conclusion ''archytas'' == ''archy'' is correct. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 09:19, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Xenwolf: /* Rename to Archy family? */ re with thanks

2021-05-22T09:19:02Z

Rename to Archy family?: re with thanks

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:19, 22 May 2021
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	: ''Clan'' was Gene's term for ''subgroup family''. Yeah it's sometimes confusing and the use has never carried on in the community. Not all clan pages can be renamed tho, as some of the subgroup temperaments haven't got distinct names (example: ''Quince clan''). [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 17:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)		: ''Clan'' was Gene's term for ''subgroup family''. Yeah it's sometimes confusing and the use has never carried on in the community. Not all clan pages can be renamed tho, as some of the subgroup temperaments haven't got distinct names (example: ''Quince clan''). [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 17:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

			:: Thanks. I added the synonym as redirect lemma hoping that my conclusion ''archytas'' == ''archy'' is correct. --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 09:19, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

FloraC: /* Rename to Archy family? */ re

2021-05-21T17:36:10Z

Rename to Archy family?: re

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:36, 21 May 2021
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	As I read in ''[[Subgroup Temperament Families, Relationships, and Genes #Families]]'', [[Dominant]] belongs to [[Meantone family]] and "[[Archy family]]" and in the introduction of this article ([[Archytas clan]]), I see the Dominant temperament in the list. Any suggestions how to cope with it? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 12:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)		As I read in ''[[Subgroup Temperament Families, Relationships, and Genes #Families]]'', [[Dominant]] belongs to [[Meantone family]] and "[[Archy family]]" and in the introduction of this article ([[Archytas clan]]), I see the Dominant temperament in the list. Any suggestions how to cope with it? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 12:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

			: ''Clan'' was Gene's term for ''subgroup family''. Yeah it's sometimes confusing and the use has never carried on in the community. Not all clan pages can be renamed tho, as some of the subgroup temperaments haven't got distinct names (example: ''Quince clan''). [[User:FloraC\|FloraC]] ([[User talk:FloraC\|talk]]) 17:36, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Xenwolf: /* Rename to Archy family? */ new section

2021-05-21T12:47:17Z

Rename to Archy family?: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:47, 21 May 2021
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	{{WSArchiveLink}}		{{WSArchiveLink}}

			== Rename to [[Archy family]]? ==

			As I read in ''[[Subgroup Temperament Families, Relationships, and Genes #Families]]'', [[Dominant]] belongs to [[Meantone family]] and "[[Archy family]]" and in the introduction of this article ([[Archytas clan]]), I see the Dominant temperament in the list. Any suggestions how to cope with it? --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 12:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Mike Battaglia: 1 revision imported: Moving archived Wikispaces discussion to subpage

2018-10-01T18:02:33Z

1 revision imported: Moving archived Wikispaces discussion to subpage

← Older revision	Revision as of 18:02, 1 October 2018
(No difference)

WikispacesArchive>Mike Battaglia: Text replacement - "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''" to "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.''' ''...

2018-10-01T18:01:16Z

Text replacement - "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''" to "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.''' <span style="color:#800000">''...

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:01, 1 October 2018
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	~~= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =~~		{{WSArchiveLink}}
	~~'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''~~

	~~<span style="color:#800000">'''PLEASE MAKE ANY NEW COMMENTS <u>ABOVE</u> THIS SECTION.'''</span> Anything below here is for archival purposes only.~~

	~~----~~

	~~== Custom research paper? ==~~
	~~What's with the spam from a member?~~

	~~- '''genewardsmith''' December 29, 2011, 06:26:03 PM UTC-0800~~
	~~----~~
	~~It doesn't really make sense to lock just this page. These kinds of spammers just pick a random page to add their link to.~~

	~~- '''keenanpepper''' December 29, 2011, 07:38:58 PM UTC-0800~~
	~~----~~
	~~I agree but the last time I brought the subject up there was no consensus that only members be allowed to post. What I want to know is, do we have a member who is a spammer?~~

	~~- '''genewardsmith''' December 30, 2011, 05:21:44 AM UTC-0800~~
	~~----~~
	Did you kick this "janwalls" off? This is a registered user of wikispaces in general (hence the username), but not a member of the xenharmonic wiki. So unless you kicked this user off, then they weren't actually a member of the xenwiki when they posted that spam.

	~~- '''keenanpepper''' December 30, 2011, 05:47:21 AM UTC-0800~~
	~~----~~
	~~Good, I'll go kick him off now if someone hasn't already done so.~~

	~~- '''genewardsmith''' December 30, 2011, 08:15:52 AM UTC-0800~~
	~~----~~

	~~== Blackwood? ==~~
	~~What is a 5-limit temperament doing on a page for a clan defined by a 7-limit comma?~~

	~~- '''igliashon''' July 16, 2011, 02:33:27 PM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~It seems to do no harm; it goes with the 7-limit temperament.~~

	~~- '''genewardsmith''' July 16, 2011, 09:36:27 PM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~If there isn't one already, I'd think giving a page to Blackwood temperament and its related extensions would be a better option or at least a worthwhile addition.~~

	~~- '''igliashon''' July 19, 2011, 11:35:36 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~

Mike Battaglia: Text replacement - "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''" to "'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.''' ''...

2018-09-20T07:00:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:00, 20 September 2018
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	= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =		= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =
	'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''		'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''

			<span style="color:#800000">'''PLEASE MAKE ANY NEW COMMENTS <u>ABOVE</u> THIS SECTION.'''</span> Anything below here is for archival purposes only.

	----		----