Talk:17edo - Revision history

Fredg999: Move high priority to talk page

2025-04-10T17:02:30Z

Move high priority to talk page

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			{{High priority}}

	== Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where? ==		== Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where? ==

Arseniiv: /* Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where? */ okay!

2020-09-27T21:58:56Z

Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where?: okay!

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	: Of course you may add such a section but what about adding it to the [[17edo#Temperaments\|#Temperaments]] section? BTW: welcome to the wiki, Arseniiv! --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 21:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)		: Of course you may add such a section but what about adding it to the [[17edo#Temperaments\|#Temperaments]] section? BTW: welcome to the wiki, Arseniiv! --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 21:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

			:: (Thanks!) Yeah, for some reason I thought that section is for other stuff but now I think that’s a perfect match. --[[User:Arseniiv\|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv\|talk]]) 21:58, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Xenwolf: /* Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where? */ sorry, i didn't realize that links to section anchors aren't propagated to "Lemma case"

2020-09-27T21:35:50Z

Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where?: sorry, i didn't realize that links to section anchors aren't propagated to "Lemma case"

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	Hi! As Secor’s article about 17edo is included in [[17edo#Introductory materials]], it might be a good idea to add a link to the well temperament which he describes there as well. (I added it today: [[Secor wt17]] :) If you agree with this, where to? I would create a section like “Related tunings” somewhere near the end of the page, or add the link right where the article is mentioned. What’s better? --[[User:Arseniiv\|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv\|talk]]) 20:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)		Hi! As Secor’s article about 17edo is included in [[17edo#Introductory materials]], it might be a good idea to add a link to the well temperament which he describes there as well. (I added it today: [[Secor wt17]] :) If you agree with this, where to? I would create a section like “Related tunings” somewhere near the end of the page, or add the link right where the article is mentioned. What’s better? --[[User:Arseniiv\|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv\|talk]]) 20:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

	: Of course you may add such a section but what about adding it to the [[17edo#~~temperaments~~\|#~~temperaments~~]] section? BTW: welcome to the wiki, Arseniiv! --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 21:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)		: Of course you may add such a section but what about adding it to the [[17edo#Temperaments\|#Temperaments]] section? BTW: welcome to the wiki, Arseniiv! --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 21:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Xenwolf: /* Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where? */ re

2020-09-27T21:05:42Z

Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where?: re

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	Hi! As Secor’s article about 17edo is included in [[17edo#Introductory materials]], it might be a good idea to add a link to the well temperament which he describes there as well. (I added it today: [[Secor wt17]] :) If you agree with this, where to? I would create a section like “Related tunings” somewhere near the end of the page, or add the link right where the article is mentioned. What’s better? --[[User:Arseniiv\|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv\|talk]]) 20:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)		Hi! As Secor’s article about 17edo is included in [[17edo#Introductory materials]], it might be a good idea to add a link to the well temperament which he describes there as well. (I added it today: [[Secor wt17]] :) If you agree with this, where to? I would create a section like “Related tunings” somewhere near the end of the page, or add the link right where the article is mentioned. What’s better? --[[User:Arseniiv\|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv\|talk]]) 20:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

			: Of course you may add such a section but what about adding it to the [[17edo#temperaments\|#temperaments]] section? BTW: welcome to the wiki, Arseniiv! --[[User:Xenwolf\|Xenwolf]] ([[User talk:Xenwolf\|talk]]) 21:05, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Arseniiv: /* Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where? */ new section

2020-09-27T20:39:19Z

Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where?: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:39, 27 September 2020
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	{{WSArchiveLink}}		{{WSArchiveLink}}

			== Could I add a link to a related well temperament, and where? ==

			Hi! As Secor’s article about 17edo is included in [[17edo#Introductory materials]], it might be a good idea to add a link to the well temperament which he describes there as well. (I added it today: [[Secor wt17]] :) If you agree with this, where to? I would create a section like “Related tunings” somewhere near the end of the page, or add the link right where the article is mentioned. What’s better? --[[User:Arseniiv\|Arseniiv]] ([[User talk:Arseniiv\|talk]]) 20:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Mike Battaglia: 1 revision imported: Moving archived Wikispaces discussion to subpage

2018-10-01T18:02:31Z

1 revision imported: Moving archived Wikispaces discussion to subpage

← Older revision	Revision as of 18:02, 1 October 2018
(No difference)

WikispacesArchive>PiotrGrochowski at 18:01, 1 October 2018

2018-10-01T18:01:16Z

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	~~= ARCHIVED WIKISPACES DISCUSSION BELOW =~~		{{WSArchiveLink}}
	~~'''All discussion below is archived from the Wikispaces export in its original unaltered form.'''~~

	~~<span style="color:#800000">'''PLEASE MAKE ANY NEW COMMENTS <u>ABOVE</u> THIS SECTION.'''</span> Anything below here is for archival purposes only.~~

	~~----~~

	~~== three commas ==~~
	~~How can commas of size near the step size of 17edo be tempered out? I sorted the suspicious three to the end of the table and set it into italic. I think they should be deleted better from this table.~~

	~~- '''xenwolf''' June 05, 2011, 11:27:00 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~Using the stated val, which is the 13-limit 17edo patent val, it is indeed the case that the commas in question are tempered out. I'll add a comment.~~

	~~- '''genewardsmith''' June 05, 2011, 11:33:36 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	If I could only understand it! Would it be possible to make an example for 25/24 in the 17edo here? I thought "tempering out a comma" means only "to make it disappear" - am I really so wrong? ...please be some more patient with me!

	~~- '''xenwolf''' June 05, 2011, 11:47:32 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	17-EDO's patent val maps 5/4 to 353 cents, and two of those make up a 3/2. Using the patent val, that equates 25/16 ((5/4)(5/4)) with 24/16 ((3/2)(8/8)), meaning 25/24 is tempered out. But if we don't assume the patent val, we will end up with a different comma list. I, for instance, think of 17 as approximating 25 but not 5, and map it to the ~777-cent interval. On that mapping, 25/24 is definitely NOT tempered out.

	~~- '''igliashon''' September 21, 2011, 01:38:27 PM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	~~So in other words, in that mapping 25 could be considered a "pseudo-prime", since it's not actually a prime number, but its root (5) is not represented.~~

	The 23rd harmonic is also represented too, by the way (23:16 is a little sharp). So we could consider 17edo a 2.3.7.11.13.23.25 temperament. In other words, it's 27-odd limit with no 5, 17, or 19, and with 25 treated as though it were prime.

	~~- '''MasonGreen1''' March 01, 2016, 07:25:23 PM UTC-0800~~
	~~----~~
	~~Has anyone examined the no-fives "zeta function" tunings? I've seen no-twos tunings evaluated, but not no-fives.~~

	Among no-fives tunings, 17 is pretty good, isn't it? I suspect 12 would still be a zeta edo even if the fifth harmonic were ignored. 17 would probably be the next one after 12. Not sure about 19edo; it doesn't have a good 7 and doesn't match 11 at all, so as a no-fives tuning, it's not so great and 17 is probably better than 19.

	~~- '''MasonGreen1''' March 01, 2016, 07:30:59 PM UTC-0800~~
	~~----~~
	17-comma example: The 17-comma is a difference between 17 fifths (octave reduced) and octave. The fifth of 17-edo is ~4 cents sharp, and stacking 17 of these adds up to ~68 cents, equating it with octave.

	~~- '''PiotrGrochowski''' October 11, 2016, 06:39:27 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~
	Note that you don't need to use the patent val. In patent val, 25/24 is tempered out and 81/80 maps to 1 step. However, there is alternative 5 that maps 25/24 to 2 steps (allowing a neutral third between major and minor third) and tempers out 81/80.

	~~- '''PiotrGrochowski''' October 14, 2016, 12:14:18 AM UTC-0700~~
	~~----~~

	~~== Approximated Ratios ==~~

	There are some unusually large ratios being included in the list of 17edo's approximated ratios. I question their relevance for inclusion, as several are too large to be of salience in any otonal or utonal harmonic context. While it's hard to know where exactly to draw the line, I generally place it at the 31st harmonic at the outermost, while preferring to avoid anything beyond the 21st harmonic unless absolutely necessary.
	~~:What? I don't see any primes beyond 17 in that column. [[User:PiotrGrochowski\|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski\|talk]]) 07:17, 23 September 2018 (UTC)~~
	~~Not even before your edit. [[User:PiotrGrochowski\|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski\|talk]]) 07:18, 23 September 2018 (UTC)~~

PiotrGrochowski at 07:18, 23 September 2018

2018-09-23T07:18:42Z

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	There are some unusually large ratios being included in the list of 17edo's approximated ratios. I question their relevance for inclusion, as several are too large to be of salience in any otonal or utonal harmonic context. While it's hard to know where exactly to draw the line, I generally place it at the 31st harmonic at the outermost, while preferring to avoid anything beyond the 21st harmonic unless absolutely necessary.		There are some unusually large ratios being included in the list of 17edo's approximated ratios. I question their relevance for inclusion, as several are too large to be of salience in any otonal or utonal harmonic context. While it's hard to know where exactly to draw the line, I generally place it at the 31st harmonic at the outermost, while preferring to avoid anything beyond the 21st harmonic unless absolutely necessary.
	:What? I don't see any primes beyond 17 in that column. [[User:PiotrGrochowski\|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski\|talk]]) 07:17, 23 September 2018 (UTC)		:What? I don't see any primes beyond 17 in that column. [[User:PiotrGrochowski\|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski\|talk]]) 07:17, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
			Not even before your edit. [[User:PiotrGrochowski\|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski\|talk]]) 07:18, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

PiotrGrochowski: /* Approximated Ratios */

2018-09-23T07:17:18Z

Approximated Ratios

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:17, 23 September 2018
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	There are some unusually large ratios being included in the list of 17edo's approximated ratios. I question their relevance for inclusion, as several are too large to be of salience in any otonal or utonal harmonic context. While it's hard to know where exactly to draw the line, I generally place it at the 31st harmonic at the outermost, while preferring to avoid anything beyond the 21st harmonic unless absolutely necessary.		There are some unusually large ratios being included in the list of 17edo's approximated ratios. I question their relevance for inclusion, as several are too large to be of salience in any otonal or utonal harmonic context. While it's hard to know where exactly to draw the line, I generally place it at the 31st harmonic at the outermost, while preferring to avoid anything beyond the 21st harmonic unless absolutely necessary.
			:What? I don't see any primes beyond 17 in that column. [[User:PiotrGrochowski\|PiotrGrochowski]] ([[User talk:PiotrGrochowski\|talk]]) 07:17, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Igliashon: /* Approximated Ratios */ new section

2018-09-23T06:43:13Z

Approximated Ratios: new section

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	- '''PiotrGrochowski''' October 14, 2016, 12:14:18 AM UTC-0700		- '''PiotrGrochowski''' October 14, 2016, 12:14:18 AM UTC-0700
	----		----

			== Approximated Ratios ==

			There are some unusually large ratios being included in the list of 17edo's approximated ratios. I question their relevance for inclusion, as several are too large to be of salience in any otonal or utonal harmonic context. While it's hard to know where exactly to draw the line, I generally place it at the 31st harmonic at the outermost, while preferring to avoid anything beyond the 21st harmonic unless absolutely necessary.