Generator-offset property - Revision history

Inthar: /* Mathematical definition */

2024-08-09T13:19:25Z

Mathematical definition

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	[[Category:Scale]]		[[Category:Scale]]
	~~[[Category:Pages with open problems]]~~

Inthar at 13:19, 9 August 2024

2024-08-09T13:19:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:19, 9 August 2024
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	Generator-offset scales generalize the notion of [[dipentatonic scale\|dipentatonic]] and [[diheptatonic scale\|diheptatonic]] scales where the pentatonic and heptatonic are [[MOS scales]]. A related but distinct notion is [[alternating generator sequence]]. While scales produced using the generator-offset procedure can be seen as a result of an alternating generator sequence of 2 alternants, the generator-offset perspective views the sum of the two alternants as the "canonical" generator, and the alternants as rather being possible choices of the offset which are effectively equivalent up to chirality. While a well-formed AGS scale requires each alternant in the AGS to subtend the same number of steps, the generator-offset property only requires each (aggregate) generator to subtend the same number of steps.		Generator-offset scales generalize the notion of [[dipentatonic scale\|dipentatonic]] and [[diheptatonic scale\|diheptatonic]] scales where the pentatonic and heptatonic are [[MOS scales]]. A related but distinct notion is [[alternating generator sequence]]. While scales produced using the generator-offset procedure can be seen as a result of an alternating generator sequence of 2 alternants, the generator-offset perspective views the sum of the two alternants as the "canonical" generator, and the alternants as rather being possible choices of the offset which are effectively equivalent up to chirality. While a well-formed AGS scale requires each alternant in the AGS to subtend the same number of steps, the generator-offset property only requires each (aggregate) generator to subtend the same number of steps.

	Note: In Inthar's contribution to [[aberrismic theory]], this term has been superseded by [[guide ~~frames~~]].		Note: In Inthar's contribution to [[aberrismic theory]], this term has been superseded by [[guide frame]]s.
	== Mathematical definition ==		== Mathematical definition ==
	More formally, a cyclic word ''S'' (representing the steps of a [[periodic scale]]) of size ''n'' is '''generator-offset''' if it satisfies the following properties:		More formally, a cyclic word ''S'' (representing the steps of a [[periodic scale]]) of size ''n'' is '''generator-offset''' if it satisfies the following properties:

Inthar at 13:18, 9 August 2024

2024-08-09T13:18:54Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:18, 9 August 2024
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	Generator-offset scales generalize the notion of [[dipentatonic scale\|dipentatonic]] and [[diheptatonic scale\|diheptatonic]] scales where the pentatonic and heptatonic are [[MOS scales]]. A related but distinct notion is [[alternating generator sequence]]. While scales produced using the generator-offset procedure can be seen as a result of an alternating generator sequence of 2 alternants, the generator-offset perspective views the sum of the two alternants as the "canonical" generator, and the alternants as rather being possible choices of the offset which are effectively equivalent up to chirality. While a well-formed AGS scale requires each alternant in the AGS to subtend the same number of steps, the generator-offset property only requires each (aggregate) generator to subtend the same number of steps.		Generator-offset scales generalize the notion of [[dipentatonic scale\|dipentatonic]] and [[diheptatonic scale\|diheptatonic]] scales where the pentatonic and heptatonic are [[MOS scales]]. A related but distinct notion is [[alternating generator sequence]]. While scales produced using the generator-offset procedure can be seen as a result of an alternating generator sequence of 2 alternants, the generator-offset perspective views the sum of the two alternants as the "canonical" generator, and the alternants as rather being possible choices of the offset which are effectively equivalent up to chirality. While a well-formed AGS scale requires each alternant in the AGS to subtend the same number of steps, the generator-offset property only requires each (aggregate) generator to subtend the same number of steps.

			Note: In Inthar's contribution to [[aberrismic theory]], this term has been superseded by [[guide frames]].
	== Mathematical definition ==		== Mathematical definition ==
	More formally, a cyclic word ''S'' (representing the steps of a [[periodic scale]]) of size ''n'' is '''generator-offset''' if it satisfies the following properties:		More formally, a cyclic word ''S'' (representing the steps of a [[periodic scale]]) of size ''n'' is '''generator-offset''' if it satisfies the following properties:

Inthar: /* Open questions */

2024-08-09T13:15:36Z

Open questions

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	# The scale is ''well-formed'' with respect to g, i.e. all occurrences of the generator g are ''k''-steps for a fixed ''k''.		# The scale is ''well-formed'' with respect to g, i.e. all occurrences of the generator g are ''k''-steps for a fixed ''k''.

	~~== Open questions ==~~
	~~This heading has those open questions for which no conjecture has yet been formed either way. (These can be updated as necessary)~~

	# Given any arbitrary MOS (or DE, etc) scale with at least three notes per period, is there always a MV3 generator-offset scale which can be derived as a "detempering" of that scale? Or is this only true for some MOS's? For instance, the MOS LLsLLLs has the MV3 generator-offset scale LmsLmLs as a detempering. Does a similar MV3 detempering exist for every possible DE scale with at least three notes per period, or at least for strict MOS's with one period per octave (e.g. well-formed scales)?
	# The scale tree is a great way to analyze MOS scales. For any generator, we can compute the various MOS's it forms if we simply look at the scale tree, and indeed MOS "words" like LLsLLLs can be identified with regions on the scale tree (in this situation the interval between 4/7 and 3/5). A similar "scale plane" should exist for generator-offset-MV3 scales, where given some word representing a generator-offset-MV3 scale, we can look at the set of points on the generator plane which generates it; these seem to often be triangles, with the lines corresponding to MOS's and the vertices corresponding to EDOs (though is this always true?). What is the big picture of this scale plane? Can we use Viggo Brun's algorithm for this, generalizing the theory of continued fractions? Is there some simple formula we can use to predict, given some generator-offset-MV3 scale, which region on the scale plane it corresponds to? Can we plot simple generator-size-proportions as points in this space? And so on.
	# In the theory of MOS, there is a second [[MOS Scale Family Tree\|scale tree]] that is less frequently talked about, which Erv Wilson calls the "Rabbit Sequence" ([http://www.anaphoria.com/RabbitSequence.pdf Erv Wilson's original version], [https://mikebattagliamusic.com/MOSTree/MOSTreeab.html interactive version 1], [https://mikebattagliamusic.com/MOSTree/MOSTreeLs.html interactive version 2]). This is a tree for which each MOS word has two children, depending on if the MOS is "soft" (with L/s < 2) or "hard" (with L/s > 2). For instance, LsLss has the two children LLsLLLs and ssLsssL. Does a similar scale plane exist for these generator-offset-MV3 scales?

	[[Category:Scale]]		[[Category:Scale]]
	[[Category:Pages with open problems]]		[[Category:Pages with open problems]]

Inthar: /* Open conjectures */ moving this and the following section to 3ary scale theorems, rewriting this article

2024-08-09T13:14:04Z

Open conjectures: moving this and the following section to 3ary scale theorems, rewriting this article

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:14, 9 August 2024
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	# ''S'' is generated by two chains of stacked generators g separated by a fixed offset δ; either both chains are of size ''n''/2 (implying ''n'' is even), or one chain has size (''n'' + 1)/2 and the second has size (''n'' − 1)/2 (implying ''n'' is odd).		# ''S'' is generated by two chains of stacked generators g separated by a fixed offset δ; either both chains are of size ''n''/2 (implying ''n'' is even), or one chain has size (''n'' + 1)/2 and the second has size (''n'' − 1)/2 (implying ''n'' is odd).
	# The scale is ''well-formed'' with respect to g, i.e. all occurrences of the generator g are ''k''-steps for a fixed ''k''.		# The scale is ''well-formed'' with respect to g, i.e. all occurrences of the generator g are ''k''-steps for a fixed ''k''.

	~~== Open conjectures ==~~
	~~=== Conjecture ("MV3 Sequences") ===~~
	Given any two generators, we can iterate them to any number of notes and see what the maximum-variety of the resulting scale is. In particular, we can look at those scale sizes which are MV3, and thus compute the '''MV3 sequence''' for the pair of generators (similar to the "MOS sequence" one can compute for one generator). Thus, for any pair of generators, we can form the associated sequence of increasingly large MV3 scales.

	Surprisingly, for almost all pairs of generators, this sequence seems to terminate after some (usually relatively small) scale. That is, if we simply take all possible pairs of generators between 0 and 1200 cents, and for each pair we compute the MV3 sequence for all generator pairs up to some maximum ''N'', such as 1000, we can easily see that most points will have only a few entries in it, after which no MV3 scales are apparently generated. It would seem to be true that as the two generators get closer and closer in size, the MV3 sequence gets longer and longer, until when the two generators are equal you have an infinite-length sequence (corresponding to MOS).

	It is pretty easy to see this behavior is true if we simply compute the MV3 sequences up to any very large ''N'', far beyond the scale sizes we typically use in music theory, but it would be good to have a proof.

	== Open questions ==		== Open questions ==

Inthar at 13:03, 7 April 2024

2024-04-07T13:03:51Z

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	A scale satisfies the '''generator-offset property''' if it satisfies the following properties:		A scale satisfies the '''generator-offset property''' if it satisfies the following properties:
	# The scale is generated by two chains of stacked copies of an interval called ''generator''.		# The scale is generated by two chains of stacked copies of an interval called the ''generator''.
	# The two chains are separated by a different interval called the ''offset'' (the difference between the first note of the second chain and the first note of the first chain).		# The two chains are separated by a different interval called the ''offset'' (the difference between the first note of the second chain and the first note of the first chain).
	# The lengths of the chains differ by at most one. (1-3 can be restated as: The scale can be built by stacking two alternating generators (called ''alternants'') a<sub>1</sub> and a<sub>2</sub>. Note that a<sub>1</sub> does not need to [[subtend]], i.e. occur as, the same number of steps as a<sub>2</sub>.)		# The lengths of the chains differ by at most one. (1-3 can be restated as: The scale can be built by stacking two alternating generators (called ''alternants'') a<sub>1</sub> and a<sub>2</sub>. Note that a<sub>1</sub> does not need to [[subtend]], i.e. occur as, the same number of steps as a<sub>2</sub>.)

Inthar: Ground didn't discover this (the MV page had had a statement of the classification thm using this), but just investigated musically using scales with the property.

2024-04-07T13:02:11Z

Ground didn't discover this (the MV page had had a statement of the classification thm using this), but just investigated musically using scales with the property.

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:02, 7 April 2024
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	The [[Zarlino]] (3L 2M 2S) JI scale is an example of a generator-offset scale, because it is built by stacking alternating 5/4 and 6/5 generators. The 7-limit version of [[diasem]] (5L 2M 2S) is another example, with generators 7/6 and 8/7.		The [[Zarlino]] (3L 2M 2S) JI scale is an example of a generator-offset scale, because it is built by stacking alternating 5/4 and 6/5 generators. The 7-limit version of [[diasem]] (5L 2M 2S) is another example, with generators 7/6 and 8/7.

	~~A conception developed by [[User:ks26\|groundfault]], generator~~-offset scales generalize the notion of [[dipentatonic scale\|dipentatonic]] and [[diheptatonic scale\|diheptatonic]] scales where the pentatonic and heptatonic are [[MOS scales]]. A related but distinct notion is [[alternating generator sequence]]. While scales produced using the generator-offset procedure can be seen as a result of an alternating generator sequence of 2 alternants, the generator-offset perspective views the sum of the two alternants as the "canonical" generator, and the alternants as rather being possible choices of the offset which are effectively equivalent up to chirality. While a well-formed AGS scale requires each alternant in the AGS to subtend the same number of steps, the generator-offset property only requires each (aggregate) generator to subtend the same number of steps.		Generator-offset scales generalize the notion of [[dipentatonic scale\|dipentatonic]] and [[diheptatonic scale\|diheptatonic]] scales where the pentatonic and heptatonic are [[MOS scales]]. A related but distinct notion is [[alternating generator sequence]]. While scales produced using the generator-offset procedure can be seen as a result of an alternating generator sequence of 2 alternants, the generator-offset perspective views the sum of the two alternants as the "canonical" generator, and the alternants as rather being possible choices of the offset which are effectively equivalent up to chirality. While a well-formed AGS scale requires each alternant in the AGS to subtend the same number of steps, the generator-offset property only requires each (aggregate) generator to subtend the same number of steps.

	== Mathematical definition ==		== Mathematical definition ==

FloraC: Recategorize (this article doesn't fit the category for collections. A topic category may be added when necessary)

2024-03-13T04:17:45Z

Recategorize (this article doesn't fit the category for collections. A topic category may be added when necessary)

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:17, 13 March 2024
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	# In the theory of MOS, there is a second [[MOS Scale Family Tree\|scale tree]] that is less frequently talked about, which Erv Wilson calls the "Rabbit Sequence" ([http://www.anaphoria.com/RabbitSequence.pdf Erv Wilson's original version], [https://mikebattagliamusic.com/MOSTree/MOSTreeab.html interactive version 1], [https://mikebattagliamusic.com/MOSTree/MOSTreeLs.html interactive version 2]). This is a tree for which each MOS word has two children, depending on if the MOS is "soft" (with L/s < 2) or "hard" (with L/s > 2). For instance, LsLss has the two children LLsLLLs and ssLsssL. Does a similar scale plane exist for these generator-offset-MV3 scales?		# In the theory of MOS, there is a second [[MOS Scale Family Tree\|scale tree]] that is less frequently talked about, which Erv Wilson calls the "Rabbit Sequence" ([http://www.anaphoria.com/RabbitSequence.pdf Erv Wilson's original version], [https://mikebattagliamusic.com/MOSTree/MOSTreeab.html interactive version 1], [https://mikebattagliamusic.com/MOSTree/MOSTreeLs.html interactive version 2]). This is a tree for which each MOS word has two children, depending on if the MOS is "soft" (with L/s < 2) or "hard" (with L/s > 2). For instance, LsLss has the two children LLsLLLs and ssLsssL. Does a similar scale plane exist for these generator-offset-MV3 scales?

	~~[[Category:generator-offset scales\| ]]<!--Main article-->~~
	[[Category:Scale]]		[[Category:Scale]]
	[[Category:Pages with open problems]]		[[Category:Pages with open problems]]

Inthar at 22:22, 9 February 2024

2024-02-09T22:22:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:22, 9 February 2024
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	[[Category:generator-offset scales\| ]]<!--Main article-->		[[Category:generator-offset scales\| ]]<!--Main article-->
	[[Category:Scale]]		[[Category:Scale]]
	[[Category:~~Articles~~ with open problems]]		[[Category:Pages with open problems]]

Inthar: /* Open questions */

2024-02-01T16:35:09Z

Open questions

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:35, 1 February 2024
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	[[Category:generator-offset scales\| ]]<!--Main article-->		[[Category:generator-offset scales\| ]]<!--Main article-->
	[[Category:Scale]]		[[Category:Scale]]
			[[Category:Articles with open problems]]