ExperienceHelpingMicrotonality - Revision history

Fredg999: Redirect

2023-03-08T01:58:43Z

Redirect

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:58, 8 March 2023
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	~~In answer to "~~When does experience in 12 ''help'' in learning non-12? When does it ''hinder''?~~" from [[Pedagogy\|Pedagogy~~]]		#REDIRECT [[Pedagogy questions#When does experience in 12 help in learning non-12? When does it hinder?]]

	~~Contributions from people with experience are welcome.~~

	Microtonality shouldn't be thought of as a practice distinct from music making. Experience of learning music will naturally translate into learning music in other tunings. In many cases experience of traditional music may not really be in 12-equal at all. However, the question's framed in terms of a dichotomy, so let's answer it that way.

	~~Mostly it depends on the nature of the experience, and how non-12 is being learned. Making this a useful topic for microtonal pedagogy of course.~~

	If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended [[Meantone\|Meantone]] is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.

	If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of dividing the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones ([[24edo\|24edo]]), but also to [[72edo\|72edo]], where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.

	Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular_Temperaments\|Regular Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).

	~~Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.~~

Moremajorthanmajor at 01:00, 11 March 2022

2022-03-11T01:00:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:00, 11 March 2022
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	If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended [[Meantone\|Meantone]] is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.		If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended [[Meantone\|Meantone]] is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.

	If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of ~~diving~~ the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones ([[24edo\|24edo]]), but also to [[72edo\|72edo]], where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.		If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of dividing the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones ([[24edo\|24edo]]), but also to [[72edo\|72edo]], where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.

	Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular_Temperaments\|Regular Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).		Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular_Temperaments\|Regular Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).

	Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.		Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.

Wikispaces>FREEZE at 00:00, 17 July 2018

2018-07-17T00:00:00Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
+In answer to "When does experience in 12 ''help'' in learning non-12? When does it ''hinder''?" from [[Pedagogy|Pedagogy]]
 Contributions from people with experience are welcome.
@@ Line 14: / Line 7: @@
 Mostly it depends on the nature of the experience, and how non-12 is being learned. Making this a useful topic for microtonal pedagogy of course.
-If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended [[Meantone]] is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.
+If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended [[Meantone|Meantone]] is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.
-If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of diving the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones ([[24edo]]), but also to [[72edo]], where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.
+If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of diving the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones ([[24edo|24edo]]), but also to [[72edo|72edo]], where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.
-Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).
+Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular_Temperaments|Regular Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).
-Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.</pre></div>
+Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.

Wikispaces>x31eq: Imported revision 11681381 - Original comment: Fixed link

2007-11-19T02:31:00Z

**Imported revision 11681381 - Original comment: Fixed link**

Wikispaces>x31eq: Imported revision 11681331 - Original comment:

2007-11-19T02:28:22Z

**Imported revision 11681331 - Original comment: **

New page

<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
: This revision was by author [[User:x31eq|x31eq]] and made on <tt>2007-11-19 02:28:22 UTC</tt>.<br>
: The original revision id was <tt>11681331</tt>.<br>
: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>
The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
<h4>Original Wikitext content:</h4>
<div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html">In answer to "When does experience in 12 //help// in learning non-12? When does it //hinder//?" from [[Pedagogy]]

Contributions from people with experience are welcome.

Microtonality shouldn't be thought of as a practice distinct from music making. Experience of learning music will naturally translate into learning music in other tunings. In many cases experience of traditional music may not really be in 12-equal at all. However, the question's framed in terms of a dichotomy, so let's answer it that way.

Mostly it depends on the nature of the experience, and how non-12 is being learned. Making this a useful topic for microtonal pedagogy of course.

If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended [[Meantone]] is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.

If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of diving the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones ([[24edo]]), but also to [[72edo]], where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.

Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular+Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).

Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.</pre></div>
<h4>Original HTML content:</h4>
<div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;width:200%;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html"><html><head><title>ExperienceHelpingMicrotonality</title></head><body>In answer to &quot;When does experience in 12 <em>help</em> in learning non-12? When does it <em>hinder</em>?&quot; from <a class="wiki_link" href="/Pedagogy">Pedagogy</a><br />
<br />
Contributions from people with experience are welcome.<br />
<br />
Microtonality shouldn't be thought of as a practice distinct from music making. Experience of learning music will naturally translate into learning music in other tunings. In many cases experience of traditional music may not really be in 12-equal at all. However, the question's framed in terms of a dichotomy, so let's answer it that way.<br />
<br />
Mostly it depends on the nature of the experience, and how non-12 is being learned. Making this a useful topic for microtonal pedagogy of course.<br />
<br />
If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended <a class="wiki_link" href="/Meantone">Meantone</a> is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.<br />
<br />
If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of diving the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones (<a class="wiki_link" href="/24edo">24edo</a>), but also to <a class="wiki_link" href="/72edo">72edo</a>, where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.<br />
<br />
Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular+Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).<br />
<br />
Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.</body></html></pre></div>

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:31, 19 November 2007
Line 1:		Line 1:
	<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>		<h2>IMPORTED REVISION FROM WIKISPACES</h2>
	This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>		This is an imported revision from Wikispaces. The revision metadata is included below for reference:<br>
	: This revision was by author [[User:x31eq\|x31eq]] and made on <tt>2007-11-19 02:28:22 UTC</tt>.<br>		: This revision was by author [[User:x31eq\|x31eq]] and made on <tt>2007-11-19 02:31:00 UTC</tt>.<br>
	: The original revision id was <tt>~~11681331~~</tt>.<br>		: The original revision id was <tt>11681381</tt>.<br>
	: The revision comment was: <tt></tt><br>		: The revision comment was: <tt>Fixed link</tt><br>
	The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>		The revision contents are below, presented both in the original Wikispaces Wikitext format, and in HTML exactly as Wikispaces rendered it.<br>
	<h4>Original Wikitext content:</h4>		<h4>Original Wikitext content:</h4>
Line 10:		Line 10:
	Contributions from people with experience are welcome.		Contributions from people with experience are welcome.

	Microtonality shouldn't be thought of as a practice distinct from music making. Experience of learning music will naturally translate into learning music in other tunings. In many cases experience of traditional music may not really be in 12-equal at all. However, the question's framed in terms of a dichotomy, so let's answer it that way.		Microtonality shouldn't be thought of as a practice distinct from music making. Experience of learning music will naturally translate into learning music in other tunings. In many cases experience of traditional music may not really be in 12-equal at all. However, the question's framed in terms of a dichotomy, so let's answer it that way.

	Mostly it depends on the nature of the experience, and how non-12 is being learned. Making this a useful topic for microtonal pedagogy of course.		Mostly it depends on the nature of the experience, and how non-12 is being learned. Making this a useful topic for microtonal pedagogy of course.

	If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended [[Meantone]] is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.		If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended [[Meantone]] is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.

	If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of diving the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones ([[24edo]]), but also to [[72edo]], where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.		If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of diving the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones ([[24edo]]), but also to [[72edo]], where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.

	Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular+Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).		Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).

	Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.</pre></div>		Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.</pre></div>
	<h4>Original HTML content:</h4>		<h4>Original HTML content:</h4>
	<div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;width:200%;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html"><html><head><title>ExperienceHelpingMicrotonality</title></head><body>In answer to &quot;When does experience in 12 <em>help</em> in learning non-12? When does it <em>hinder</em>?&quot; from <a class="wiki_link" href="/Pedagogy">Pedagogy</a><br />		<div style="width:100%; max-height:400pt; overflow:auto; background-color:#f8f9fa; border: 1px solid #eaecf0; padding:0em"><pre style="margin:0px;border:none;background:none;word-wrap:break-word;width:200%;white-space: pre-wrap ! important" class="old-revision-html"><html><head><title>ExperienceHelpingMicrotonality</title></head><body>In answer to &quot;When does experience in 12 <em>help</em> in learning non-12? When does it <em>hinder</em>?&quot; from <a class="wiki_link" href="/Pedagogy">Pedagogy</a><br />
Line 26:		Line 26:
	Contributions from people with experience are welcome.<br />		Contributions from people with experience are welcome.<br />
	<br />		<br />
	Microtonality shouldn't be thought of as a practice distinct from music making. Experience of learning music will naturally translate into learning music in other tunings. In many cases experience of traditional music may not really be in 12-equal at all. However, the question's framed in terms of a dichotomy, so let's answer it that way.<br />		Microtonality shouldn't be thought of as a practice distinct from music making. Experience of learning music will naturally translate into learning music in other tunings. In many cases experience of traditional music may not really be in 12-equal at all. However, the question's framed in terms of a dichotomy, so let's answer it that way.<br />
	<br />		<br />
	Mostly it depends on the nature of the experience, and how non-12 is being learned. Making this a useful topic for microtonal pedagogy of course.<br />		Mostly it depends on the nature of the experience, and how non-12 is being learned. Making this a useful topic for microtonal pedagogy of course.<br />
	<br />		<br />
	If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended <a class="wiki_link" href="/Meantone">Meantone</a> is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.<br />		If the musician has experience of tonal music with correct spelling, a transition to extended <a class="wiki_link" href="/Meantone">Meantone</a> is natural. Early pieces should enforce the 5-limit diatonic framework and move gradually to more remote notes and harmonies. A theoretical knowledge of harmony also helps because many of those rules were laid down in a meantone context.<br />
	<br />		<br />
	If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of diving the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones (<a class="wiki_link" href="/24edo">24edo</a>), but also to <a class="wiki_link" href="/72edo">72edo</a>, where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.<br />		If the musician thinks in terms of enharmonic equivalences, a procedure of diving the equal tempered semitone is most productive. This leads first to quartertones (<a class="wiki_link" href="/24edo">24edo</a>), but also to <a class="wiki_link" href="/72edo">72edo</a>, where they can learn 11-limit harmonies.<br />
	<br />		<br />
	Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see [[Regular+Temperaments]]) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).<br />		Musicians with a Pythagorean mindset (most likely string players) may take to schismatic temperament (see <a class="wiki_link" href="/Regular%20Temperaments">Regular Temperaments</a>) or divisions of the semitone (above). They will have much more trouble with extended meantone (also above).<br />
	<br />		<br />
	Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.</body></html></pre></div>		Experience may hinder when it conflicts with the new system being learned. Paradoxically, the most accomplished musicians will have the most difficulty because their habits are the most ingrained.</body></html></pre></div>