12/11 - Revision history

FloraC: + necessary clarification on the names

2026-07-20T11:45:18Z

+ necessary clarification on the names

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:45, 20 July 2026
Line 6:		Line 6:
	{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}		{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}

	'''12/11''', the ~~'''undecimal neutral second''' or~~ '''(lesser) neutral second''', is an interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ~~ratio~~ 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large~~. In [[Alpharabian tuning]] it is known as the '''Alpharabian tendoneutral second'''~~.		'''12/11''', conventionally the '''(lesser) undecimal neutral second''', is an interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular ratio]] 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large.

	12/~~11 differs from~~ the ~~larger~~ undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[~~15edo~~]], [[~~22edo~~]], [[~~31edo~~]], [[~~orwell~~]], [[~~porcupine~~]], [[~~mohajira~~]], [[~~valentine~~]], etc.		In [[Alpharabian tuning]] it is known as the '''Alpharabian tendoneutral second''', which contrasts [[88/81]], the other undecimal neutral second.

			The name ''lesser undecimal neutral second'' is said as opposed to [[11/10]], the larger undecimal neutral second or undecimal submajor second (~165 cents), from which it differs by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). [[Regular temperament\|Temperaments]] which conflate the two (thus [[tempering out]] 121/120) include [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], and their [[support]]ing [[edo]]s: [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], etc.

	Many Western listeners might describe 12/11 as sounding "exotic".		Many Western listeners might describe 12/11 as sounding "exotic".

FloraC: Move approximation info to the corresponding section

2026-07-20T11:35:08Z

Move approximation info to the corresponding section

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:35, 20 July 2026
Line 6:		Line 6:
	{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}		{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}

	'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is an interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the octave by the comma [[Undecimal_octatonic_comma\|(12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2 = {{Monzo\|15 8 0 0 -8}}]]. It follows that EDOs which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well. In [[Alpharabian tuning]] it is known as the '''Alpharabian tendoneutral second'''.		'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is an interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. In [[Alpharabian tuning]] it is known as the '''Alpharabian tendoneutral second'''.

	12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.		12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.

	Many Western listeners might describe 12/11 as sounding "exotic".		Many Western listeners might describe 12/11 as sounding "exotic".

	== Approximation ==		== Approximation ==
			One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the [[octave]] by the comma [[undecimal octatonic comma\|(12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2]] ({{monzo\| 15 8 0 0 -8 }}). It follows that edos which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well.

	{{Interval edo approximation\|12/11}}		{{Interval edo approximation\|12/11}}

	== See also ==		== See also ==
	* [[11/6]] – its [[octave complement]]		* [[11/6]] – its [[octave complement]]

FloraC: Text replacement - " {{Interval_Edo_Approximation | " to "{{Interval edo approximation|"

2025-11-03T13:01:53Z

Text replacement - " {{Interval_Edo_Approximation | " to "{{Interval edo approximation|"

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:01, 3 November 2025
Line 12:		Line 12:
	Many Western listeners might describe 12/11 as sounding "exotic".		Many Western listeners might describe 12/11 as sounding "exotic".
	== Approximation ==		== Approximation ==
	{{~~Interval_Edo_Approximation~~ \| 12/11}}		{{Interval edo approximation\|12/11}}
	== See also ==		== See also ==
	* [[11/6]] – its [[octave complement]]		* [[11/6]] – its [[octave complement]]

Pailiaq at 06:49, 3 November 2025

2025-11-03T06:49:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:49, 3 November 2025
Line 11:		Line 11:

	Many Western listeners might describe 12/11 as sounding "exotic".		Many Western listeners might describe 12/11 as sounding "exotic".
			== Approximation ==
			{{Interval_Edo_Approximation \| 12/11}}
	== See also ==		== See also ==
	* [[11/6]] – its [[octave complement]]		* [[11/6]] – its [[octave complement]]

BudjarnLambeth: Neutrality

2025-08-16T23:53:23Z

Neutrality

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:53, 16 August 2025
Line 6:		Line 6:
	{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}		{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}

	'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is ~~a strangely exotic~~ interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the octave by the comma [[Undecimal_octatonic_comma\|(12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2 = {{Monzo\|15 8 0 0 -8}}]]. It follows that EDOs which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well. In [[Alpharabian tuning]] it is known as the '''Alpharabian tendoneutral second'''.		'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is an interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the octave by the comma [[Undecimal_octatonic_comma\|(12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2 = {{Monzo\|15 8 0 0 -8}}]]. It follows that EDOs which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well. In [[Alpharabian tuning]] it is known as the '''Alpharabian tendoneutral second'''.

	12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.		12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.

			Many Western listeners might describe 12/11 as sounding "exotic".

	== See also ==		== See also ==

Yourmusic Productions: Link to referenced comma.

2025-01-10T18:35:07Z

Link to referenced comma.

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:35, 10 January 2025
Line 6:		Line 6:
	{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}		{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}

	'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is a strangely exotic interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the octave by the comma (12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2 = {{Monzo\|15 8 0 0 -8}}. It follows that EDOs which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well. In [[Alpharabian tuning]] it is known as the '''Alpharabian tendoneutral second'''.		'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is a strangely exotic interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the octave by the comma [[Undecimal_octatonic_comma\|(12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2 = {{Monzo\|15 8 0 0 -8}}]]. It follows that EDOs which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well. In [[Alpharabian tuning]] it is known as the '''Alpharabian tendoneutral second'''.

	12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.		12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.

FloraC: Recategorize

2024-09-30T08:45:07Z

Recategorize

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:45, 30 September 2024
Line 20:		Line 20:
	[[Category:Second]]		[[Category:Second]]
	[[Category:Neutral second]]		[[Category:Neutral second]]
	[[Category:Over-11]]		[[Category:Over-11 intervals]]

Aura at 23:43, 6 May 2023

2023-05-06T23:43:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:43, 6 May 2023
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{Infobox Interval		{{Infobox Interval
	\| Name = undecimal neutral second		\| Name = undecimal neutral second, Alpharabian tendoneutral second
	\| Color name = 1u2, lu 2nd		\| Color name = 1u2, lu 2nd
	\| Sound = jid_12_11_pluck_adu_dr220.mp3		\| Sound = jid_12_11_pluck_adu_dr220.mp3
Line 6:		Line 6:
	{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}		{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}

	'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is a strangely exotic interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the octave by the comma (12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2 = {{Monzo\|15 8 0 0 -8}}. It follows that EDOs which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well.		'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is a strangely exotic interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the octave by the comma (12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2 = {{Monzo\|15 8 0 0 -8}}. It follows that EDOs which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well. In [[Alpharabian tuning]] it is known as the '''Alpharabian tendoneutral second'''.

	12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.		12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.

Plumtree: Normalising usage of Infobox Interval

2022-10-25T11:55:21Z

Normalising usage of Infobox Interval

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:55, 25 October 2022
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{Infobox Interval		{{Infobox Interval
	~~\| Ratio = 12/11~~
	~~\| Monzo = 2 1 0 0 -1~~
	~~\| Cents = 150.63706~~
	\| Name = undecimal neutral second		\| Name = undecimal neutral second
	\| Color name = 1u2, lu 2nd		\| Color name = 1u2, lu 2nd
	~~\| FJS name = M2<sub>11</sub>~~
	\| Sound = jid_12_11_pluck_adu_dr220.mp3		\| Sound = jid_12_11_pluck_adu_dr220.mp3
	}}		}}
Line 22:		Line 18:
	* [[List of superparticular intervals]]		* [[List of superparticular intervals]]

	~~[[Category:11-limit]]~~
	[[Category:Second]]		[[Category:Second]]
	[[Category:Neutral second]]		[[Category:Neutral second]]
	~~[[Category:Superparticular]]~~
	[[Category:Over-11]]		[[Category:Over-11]]

Fredg999: Added Wikipedia box, misc. edits, categories

2022-03-11T17:06:06Z

Added Wikipedia box, misc. edits, categories

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:06, 11 March 2022
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{Infobox Interval		{{Infobox Interval
	~~\| Icon =~~
	\| Ratio = 12/11		\| Ratio = 12/11
	\| Monzo = 2 1 0 0 -1		\| Monzo = 2 1 0 0 -1
Line 9:		Line 8:
	\| Sound = jid_12_11_pluck_adu_dr220.mp3		\| Sound = jid_12_11_pluck_adu_dr220.mp3
	}}		}}
			{{Wikipedia\|Neutral second}}

	'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is a strangely exotic interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the harmonic series. In ~~Just Intonation~~ it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the octave by the comma (12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2 = {{Monzo\|15 8 0 0 -8}}. It follows that EDOs which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well.		'''12/11''', the '''undecimal neutral second''' or '''(lesser) neutral second''', is a strangely exotic interval found between the 11th and 12th partials of the [[harmonic series]]. In [[just intonation]] it is represented by the [[superparticular]] ratio 12/11, and is about 150.6 [[cent]]s large. One step of [[8edo]] is an excellent approximation of the just neutral second, and eight of them exceed the octave by the comma (12/11)<sup>8</sup>/2 = {{Monzo\|15 8 0 0 -8}}. It follows that EDOs which are multiples of 8, such as [[16edo]] and [[24edo]], will also represent this interval well.

	12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.		12/11 differs from the larger undecimal neutral second [[11/10]] (~165 cents) by [[121/120]] (~14.4 cents). Temperaments which conflate the two (thus tempering out 121/120) include [[15edo]], [[22edo]], [[31edo]], [[orwell]], [[porcupine]], [[mohajira]], [[valentine]], etc.
Line 23:		Line 23:

	[[Category:11-limit]]		[[Category:11-limit]]
	[[Category:~~Interval ratio]]~~		[[Category:Second]]
	~~[[Category:Just interval~~]]
	[[Category:Neutral second]]		[[Category:Neutral second]]
	~~[[Category:Second]]~~
	[[Category:Superparticular]]		[[Category:Superparticular]]
	[[Category:Over-11]]		[[Category:Over-11]]